Luke vs. Anikin

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Luke beat down Vader though, who is supposed to be 80% as powerful as Sidious. Since Dooku and Sidious are about equal, and Anakin and Obi-wan are together about equal, they must be about 50% as powerful as Dooku.
Luke>80%
80%>50%
Luke wins.

Whoops. 70% of Dooku still isn't as strong as 80% of Sidious. Hmm... well, that's OT Sidious, and, um, he must have gotten weaker since ROTS...

Hmm. Probably not that much weaker, though. Maybe I'll have to reconsider who'd win here...

Guys, in my second post I only refered to piloting, not jedi skills. And Luke did fly many kinds of stuff back on his planet, together with Biggs or whatever his name is. He also made the Death Star Trench run while many other, much more experienced pilots died. Ok he got saved by Han but still he was the only one left there.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Luke beat down Vader though, who is supposed to be 80% as powerful as Sidious. Since Dooku and Sidious are about equal, and Anakin and Obi-wan are together about equal, they must be about 50% as powerful as Dooku.
Luke>80%
80%>50%
Luke wins.

Luke beat down Vader in terms of saber fighting , not power. In terms of lightsaber skills, Vader is leagues below Sidious. 80% in terms of power certainly doesn't imply 80% of swordsmanship, since they are two completely different things.

As for Obi-Wan and Anakin being 50% of Dooku, what the hell? just because Dooku effectively took on both at once, it doesn't make him twice as powerful as both. In the duel of the fates, Maul effectively took on both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan together, but one on one, both still held their own against Maul. Obi-Wan even outsmarted Maul and took him down. By your logic, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan should have been complete non-factors to Maul when they were separated. Qui-Gon should have been dead before they even reached the room with the shaft, and Obi-Wan shouldn't have done nearly as well as he did against Maul in TPM. Simple math doesn't cut it when it comes to situations like this. And also, keep in mind that the following two are GL sourced facts as well.

1. OT Vader is a declinement from ROTS Anakin.

2. ROTS Anakin, fueled by the dark side, is 200% Sidious.

When GL states that "this guy is 80% of that guy", he is talking about pure power, and it doesn't imply that the guy with more power is guaranteed a victory. ROTS Anakin is 200% of Sidious and I certainly don't think Anakin can defeat Sidious, because of the little experience and control Anakin has. Luke in ROTJ has even little experience, training, and control.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Luke beat down Vader though, who is supposed to be 80% as powerful as Sidious. Since Dooku and Sidious are about equal, and Anakin and Obi-wan are together about equal, they must be about 50% as powerful as Dooku.
Luke>80%
80%>50%
Luke wins.

Hm, let's see.

According to hypothesis G(lentract), Dooku = Sidious.

Wrong there.

Let's move on.

If D = S + V = 4/5 of S, then does V = 4/5 D? Proof of this?

More on this.

Luke beat Vader in a fight that was conflicted on both sides and through no great talent or skill. So:

L > V

Therefore, L > A?

You seem to forget that if you're gonna throw around arbitrary numbers and half-assed logic, Glentract, that the original deal of Anakin Skywalker is better than D (Dooku) who is as you say equal to S (Sidious) but 20 % more than Vader? Wait, didn't you say that Dooku through the fight to Anakin? But there's no possible way Vader lost the fight on purpose and/or because of emotional confliction, huh?

That's called bias. Stop being a ROTJ Luke fanboy, Glentract. Numbers = shitall in debates unless they are both ACCURATE and RELEVANT.

Gosh, I was kidding. A Lucas quote might as well be evidence against something. 😆

...

*Kicks*

You ass. I thought you were serious.

Anyways, GL would say the moon powers Jar-Jar's libido if it sold movies. I personally don't put much stock in his word when it changes from each dvd special to special. Sheesh. Influenza's more consistant than he is.

if Anakin got stronger as DV (darth vader),
and Luke was stronger than DV,
then logically luke should be stronger than Anakin.

AOTC Anakin beating ROTJ Luke??? Are you drunk or stupid. I hope this puts an end to your stupidness. I wish I never started this thing.

By the way, ROTS Anakin vs. ROTJ Luke.

Originally posted by xyz jedi
if Anakin got stronger as DV (darth vader),
and Luke was stronger than DV,
then logically luke should be stronger than Anakin.

AOTC Anakin beating ROTJ Luke??? Are you drunk or stupid. I hope this puts an end to your stupidness. I wish I never started this thing.

By the way, ROTS Anakin vs. ROTJ Luke.

But Anakin got weaker when he became Vader and then Vader got even weaker thwn he got cut in half and burnt. But I agree with what you said about AOTC Anakin vs. ROTJ Luke.

Originally posted by xyz jedi
if Anakin got stronger as DV (darth vader),
and Luke was stronger than DV,
then logically luke should be stronger than Anakin.

AOTC Anakin beating ROTJ Luke??? Are you drunk or stupid. I hope this puts an end to your stupidness. I wish I never started this thing.

By the way, ROTS Anakin vs. ROTJ Luke.

Excuse me, but you are drunk or stupid if you think ROTJ Luke CAN beat AOTC Anakin. I'd like to see the in-depth argument on how Luke could win that doesn't involve the shady victory over Darth Vader.

Oh wait, there is no argument. Hm. Fanboys.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Excuse me, but you are drunk or stupid if you think ROTJ Luke CAN beat AOTC Anakin. I'd like to see the in-depth argument on how Luke could win that doesn't involve the shady victory over Darth Vader.

Oh wait, there is no argument. Hm. Fanboys.

LOL, yeah, like when I gave my reasoning and the only way out of it was for you to say Luke isn't stronger than ROTJ vader and just won by coincidence 😆

No, not by coincidence, darthsith. Don't put words in my mouth; you tend to do that. The point is the sole reason people think ROTJ Luke can win ANY battle nowdays hinges on the stupid "Well, he beat Vader!!!" Which is of course a stupid ****ing reason because he didn't use any skill, Force powers, or intellect to do it and Vader sure as hell look like he took a dive and he even went so far as to save his son afterwards, so I'd be a little doubting on him ACTUALLY trying to fight and kill his son.

So please, stow it. No argument, ridiculous premise. PT Jedi > OT Jedi anyways. That's George Lucas's thoughts on the matter.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
No, not by coincidence, darthsith. Don't put words in my mouth; you tend to do that. The point is the sole reason people think ROTJ Luke can win ANY battle nowdays hinges on the stupid "Well, he beat Vader!!!" Which is of course a stupid ****ing reason because he didn't use any skill, Force powers, or intellect to do it and Vader sure as hell look like he took a dive and he even went so far as to save his son afterwards, so I'd be a little doubting on him ACTUALLY trying to fight and kill his son.

So please, stow it. No argument, ridiculous premise. PT Jedi > OT Jedi anyways. That's George Lucas's thoughts on the matter.

1) Where did GL say this?
2) vader's 80% of Sidious, making Luke more than 80% of Sidious. read the ROTJ novel. Vader wanted to kill Luke more thanLuke wanted to kill Vader. But the point is there's njo way AOTC Anakin's 80% if Sidious. Get over it.

Jesus, for the last ****ing time...

ROTJ novelisation = noncanon.

It's not. It also says that Luke reflects sith lightning, which he doesn't.
The fight is in question. It is a ?, meaning that when you base you're entire argument off of it you're hinging on a variable.

Second, 80 % OF FORCE POTENTIAL. This is not 80 % FIGHTING UBER SKILL. Jesus, could you people not fudge the numbers? AOTC Anakin IS well over 80% of the Force potential of Sidious, unless Sidious has more Force potential than Yoda which I sincerely doubt and certainly isn't the case.

Now, I'm looking at saber skills and at Force mastery... AOTC Anakin beats ROTJ Luke hands down.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Jesus, for the last ****ing time...

ROTJ novelisation = noncanon.

It's not. It also says that Luke reflects sith lightning, which he doesn't.
The fight is in question. It is a ?, meaning that when you base you're entire argument off of it you're hinging on a variable.

Second, 80 % OF FORCE POTENTIAL. This is not 80 % FIGHTING UBER SKILL. Jesus, could you people not fudge the numbers? AOTC Anakin IS well over 80% of the Force potential of Sidious, unless Sidious has more Force potential than Yoda which I sincerely doubt and certainly isn't the case.

Now, I'm looking at saber skills and at Force mastery... AOTC Anakin beats ROTJ Luke hands down.

Janus, this is an EU form. All EU goies unless contridicted by GL or the movies. And it's not Force potential, it's power. ROTJ Vader' potential was equal to Sidious's. He was currently 80% as powerful as Sidious. Luke was more than that. What part of this don't you get? Seriously, just ebcause technology wasn't as good in 1983 as it is now is no reason for AOTC Ani to be stronger than Luke.

Oh please. "Just cuz the technology doesn't say so..." I've heard that shit all the time from Luke fanboys. Absolutely tired of it. Look, the movies are the ultimate source of information. They are 100% accurate. They are not "mistaken" or "misrepresented", even barring technology limitations. This is the canon. It's the way it is. I notice you twist and bend rules to fit your opinion, ds, and it's bullshit.

Luke in ROTJ sucked. He was shit with a saber, his Force powers were raw and untamed, and AOTC Anakin would **** him right up one side and down the other.

ROTS Vader would be double the overall power of Sidious WITHOUT a suit. WITH the suit, he goes down to 80%.

ROTJ Vader--was not putting out his full effort in his fight with Luke, he may even have took a dive, we know he's better than what he showed. Luke swung like a teeball player and brought down his "untrying" father.

Vader stood back up despite being beaten and having his hand dismembered. Palpatine, after some 23 years of utter loyalty from Vader, and with his whole concentrion focused on kiling Luke, is completely taking off guard (yes, even him, uh huh huh) when Vader PICKS HIM UP...not defeats him combat, but BENCHPRESSES him!

Vader was not stronger than Palpatine, Luke was not stronger than Vader, that being said then the Vader with the potential of DOUBLE Palpatine's power, minus three years, will still kick the shit out of the Luke that "beat" his future mechanical self.

It depends on the time setting. If it were CW Anikin vs RJ Luke then that would be a good match.

Wow. Just... wow.

??? i am as you would say bewildered, bemused, puzzled, perplexed, baffled, mystified, nonplussed, muddled, dumbfounded, at sea, at a loss, taken aback, disoriented, disconcerted; informal flummoxed, clueless, fazed, discombobulated, ect...

Originally posted by Darth Magnevus
It depends on the time setting. If it were CW Anikin vs RJ Luke then that would be a good match.