On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Originally posted by Oncewhite
Then I don't error in stating that you don't know the scientific community, they have their prejudices and theories and these theories are sometimes skewed based on their society.

Originally posted by Oncewhite
How can you be CERTAIN that the mother doesn't effect the race of the infant via chemicals IF she has the code in her genes already? The old wives tale, remember? If a pregnant woman thinks hard about a man, her baby ends up looking like him, they warn pregnant women about this all the time.

Originally posted by Oncewhite
Science is lazy when it comes to the mind, imo, they don't want to acknowledge it's power, and esp. the power a mother has on an infant.

Originally posted by Oncewhite
The old wives tale, remember? If a pregnant woman thinks hard about a man, her baby ends up looking like him, they warn pregnant women about this all the time.

Are you kidding me? If you are seriously equating such nonsense to science, you're much more silly than I thought.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Are you kidding me? If you are seriously equating such nonsense to science, you're much more silly than I thought.

old wives tale is nonsense? I guess that's why some of the herbs used to cure certain skin problems have been studied and prove to be good because of their anti-microbial properties. Silly uh? Seems like if it's not a man telling you this stuff, it must be silly.

I am thinking that some people CAN change their sexual orientation, but others cannot.

Some people, Gay, Bisexual, even Straight swear that thier sexual desires have changed over time, but hardly ever because of something they did.

I think the change happens on ITS own, in the rare moments when it DOES happen.

Example: My ex boyfreind used to like women more than men. When he was between ages 13-19, he wasn't turned on by men the way he was turned on my women.

Although he found men visually attractive, the thought of sex with other men didn't excite him in any way. When he was 21, he said he began to find men more and more attractive.

He doesn't know why, but he just did...suddenly, the thought of naked women didn't turn him on anymore. It's like he was bored of women or somthing. He wasn't able to explain this to me that well.

Not to get too personal, but for the sake of argument, he said during masturbation the thought of men gave him a quicker and more intense orgasm than the thought of women.

So at age 21, he began to have sexual experiences with men, and found he enjoyed that more than sexual experiences with women.

HE considers himself bisexual, because he still finds women sexually appealing, but for some reason, no where as appealing as men. HE said he would rather date men than women.

He doesn't know what caused this change in attraction. HE says it may have been boredom, but whatever the case, his attraction to women totally diminished, and his attaction to men grew out of no where.

He stated that if he had a choice, he would choose to be straight. It would be much easier to like women again, because he wouldn't have to deal with the stigma from his parents, freinds, church, etc. But since choice is not a luxury that most people have when it comes to sexual attraction, he can't make that happen.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I am thinking that some people CAN change their sexual orientation, but others cannot.

Some people, Gay, Bisexual, even Straight swear that thier sexual desires have changed over time, but hardly ever because of something they did.

I think the change happens on ITS own, in the rare moments when it DOES happen.

Example: My ex boyfreind used to like women more than men. When he was between ages 13-19, he wasn't turned on by men the way he was turned on my women.

Although he found men visually attractive, the thought of sex with other men didn't excite him in any way. When he was 21, he said he began to find men more and more attractive.

He doesn't know why, but he just did...suddenly, the thought of naked women didn't turn him on anymore. It's like he was bored of women or somthing. He wasn't able to explain this to me that well.

Not to get too personal, but for the sake of argument, he said during masturbation the thought of men gave him a quicker and more intense orgasm than the thought of women.

So at age 21, he began to have sexual experiences with men, and found he enjoyed that more than sexual experiences with women.

HE considers himself bisexual, because he still finds women sexually appealing, but for some reason, no where as appealing as men. HE said he would rather date men than women.

He doesn't know what caused this change in attraction. HE says it may have been boredom, but whatever the case, his attraction to women totally diminished, and his attaction to men grew out of no where.

He stated that if he had a choice, he would choose to be straight. It would be much easier to like women again, because he wouldn't have to deal with the stigma from his parents, freinds, church, etc. But since choice is not a luxury that most people have when it comes to sexual attraction, he can't make that happen.

Originally posted by lord xyz
👆 This post I like. It's what I say, Homosexuality isn't chosen, nor is it genetic, it's environmental, people don't choose to be gay or straight, it's just your preference, which comes from your subconscious n stuff.

Glad you like it.

I also dislike the terms "gay", "straight", "bisexual" as if they are some sort of absolutes.

Many people do not realize that the definitions of sexuality have changed many times during only the past century ! And in the future, the terms may very well change again, and new "classifications" of sexual orientation and identity will be used to separate, define, and label people who do not deserve to be labelled.

Originally posted by lord xyz
👆 This post I like. It's what I say, Homosexuality isn't chosen, nor is it genetic, it's environmental, people don't choose to be gay or straight, it's just your preference, which comes from your subconscious n stuff.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Nearly all human traits have some basis in genetics, the penetrance of these traits being dependent upon what's broadly termed "environment".

Originally posted by lord xyz
👆 This post I like. It's what I say, Homosexuality isn't chosen, nor is it genetic, it's environmental, people don't choose to be gay or straight, it's just your preference, which comes from your subconscious n stuff.

why can't it also be spiritual? why avoid the spiritual apsect when talking about God, the bible, etc.?

I knew a lady one time who said that her sister in law told her she had a sex demon in her, at first, I thought it was ridiculous, but later, I found some of the ladies behavior was a bazaar force in the sex world...so, yeah, she's either a freak or has a sex demon. I do think spirits can effect your sexual orientation, they are called demons, female or male. If that female demon of that lady was in a male's body, he would change his desire and start liking men. some demons are more aggressive then others,and according to the bible, a person can have multiple demons, legions of them. and these spirits are out to corrupt man, not bring him happiness, that's why the word "gay" doesn't sound right for "homosexual". I am not sure if this is true in programming, but think of a demon as an entity out to change a person's dna code, if you think of the soul as a matrix of energy, a code of energy, with a bunch of lines of programs, the demon is an entity that "walks in through the backdoor" and changes one line at a time, if he can get away with it, rewriting the entire thing at once, if he does this, it usually alarms people too much (like the person who may notice their free will has changed in a bazaar twist, family members will start to notice the change, etc.)

\Here's a hypothetical:

IF you were out to destroy mankind, how would you do it? Create negative entities that are either hard to recognize or see (virus, bacteria, fungus, spirits, demons), and would create enough doubt that the enemy ever existed (esp. spirits and demons, etc.). Humans can't fight what they can't see, and they don't know where to look if they don't believe it can exist (virus, bacteria, spirits, demons).

Originally posted by Oncewhite
why can't it also be spiritual? why avoid the spiritual apsect when talking about God, the bible, etc.?

I knew a lady one time who said that her sister in law told her she had a sex demon in her, at first, I thought it was ridiculous, but later, I found some of the ladies behavior was a bazaar force in the sex world...so, yeah, she's either a freak or has a sex demon. I do think spirits can effect your sexual orientation, they are called demons, female or male. If that female demon of that lady was in a male's body, he would change his desire and start liking men. some demons are more aggressive then others,and according to the bible, a person can have multiple demons, legions of them. and these spirits are out to corrupt man, not bring him happiness, that's why the word "gay" doesn't sound right for "homosexual". I am not sure if this is true in programming, but think of a demon as an entity out to change a person's dna code, if you think of the soul as a matrix of energy, a code of energy, with a bunch of lines of programs, the demon is an entity that "walks in through the backdoor" and changes one line at a time, if he can get away with it, rewriting the entire thing at once, if he does this, it usually alarms people too much (like the person who may notice their free will has changed in a bazaar twist, family members will start to notice the change, etc.)

🤨

Well, just like computer viruses, that stuff spreads itself, it rewrites it's own code....

Originally posted by Oncewhite
Well, just like computer viruses, that stuff spreads itself, it rewrites it's own code....

I am not exactly sure where the demon places the viruses, it could be in the DNA or programmed in the thought processes, who knows, as long as people mock it and act like it's just hocus pocus, we will never know, will we?

Originally posted by Oncewhite
I am not exactly sure where the demon places the viruses, it could be in the DNA or programmed in the thought processes, who knows, as long as people mock it and act like it's just hocus pocus, we will never know, will we?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You fail.

There's a demon in my lower intestines!!!!!

........oh, wait.....I just farted....LOL

😮

Originally posted by Oncewhite
I am not exactly sure where the demon places the viruses, it could be in the DNA or programmed in the thought processes, who knows, as long as people mock it and act like it's just hocus pocus, we will never know, will we?

Have you considered the possibility that demons are just a way of people in ancient times to express the activity of pathogens? Also, today’s understanding of demons maybe just religious hysteria, have you considered that?

Originally posted by Oncewhite
I am not exactly sure where the demon places the viruses, it could be in the DNA or programmed in the thought processes, who knows, as long as people mock it and act like it's just hocus pocus, we will never know, will we?

You have an amazing imagination dude ! You're very creative

Originally posted by Oncewhite
why can't it also be spiritual? why avoid the spiritual apsect when talking about God, the bible, etc.?

I knew a lady one time who said that her sister in law told her she had a sex demon in her, at first, I thought it was ridiculous, but later, I found some of the ladies behavior was a bazaar force in the sex world...so, yeah, she's either a freak or has a sex demon. I do think spirits can effect your sexual orientation, they are called demons, female or male. If that female demon of that lady was in a male's body, he would change his desire and start liking men. some demons are more aggressive then others,and according to the bible, a person can have multiple demons, legions of them. and these spirits are out to corrupt man, not bring him happiness, that's why the word "gay" doesn't sound right for "homosexual". I am not sure if this is true in programming, but think of a demon as an entity out to change a person's dna code, if you think of the soul as a matrix of energy, a code of energy, with a bunch of lines of programs, the demon is an entity that "walks in through the backdoor" and changes one line at a time, if he can get away with it, rewriting the entire thing at once, if he does this, it usually alarms people too much (like the person who may notice their free will has changed in a bazaar twist, family members will start to notice the change, etc.)

\Here's a hypothetical:

IF you were out to destroy mankind, how would you do it? Create negative entities that are either hard to recognize or see (virus, bacteria, fungus, spirits, demons), and would create enough doubt that the enemy ever existed (esp. spirits and demons, etc.). Humans can't fight what they can't see, and they don't know where to look if they don't believe it can exist (virus, bacteria, spirits, demons).

(This picture is also going in the pretty girl thread.)

Originally posted by Oncewhite
old wives tale is nonsense? I guess that's why some of the herbs used to cure certain skin problems have been studied and prove to be good because of their anti-microbial properties. Silly uh? Seems like if it's not a man telling you this stuff, it must be silly.

You're saying that natural remedies are equitable to concentrating on a mans face long enough to make your baby look like him? That's ricockulous! Most medicines are a result of combining natural products. It's just silly to say that the basis for the medical industry is tantamount to an old wives tale. It's also an old wives tale that garlic will keep vampires away. But, then you'd be silly on two accounts.

Seems like if it's a man? This isn't exestential studies. If it's stupid, it's stupid. Be it from a man or a woman.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I am speculating. But that is the conclusion that I have drawn based on evidence. Homosexuality is genetically influenced but not genetically concrete. If it was concrete the concordance in identical twins would be much closer to 100%. I have explained why I believe what I believe and that is all you really asked for so I did explain.

Yes, but it is important to note that everything I said was actually from the work Charles Socarides (an atheist I might add). A very respected and influential psychiatrist. Another respectable person who showed that homosexuality can be changed is Spitzer, the same man who was most influential in having homosexuality taken off the list of mental disorders. Reparative therapy is admittedly lacking in empirical evidence, but the number of reports showing that it can be done is fairly large. Also, repartive therapy is hard to get accepted by most psychologists as psychology is dominated by left wing gay rights supporters.

All that said, I believe that the strongest testimony of reparitive therapy is that of 'ex-gays'.

Spitzer, as in Dr. Robert Spitzer, Jesuit priest:

[list][*]APA president, Lawrence Hartmann, a professor at Harvard Medical School, called Spitzer's study "too flawed to publish."

[*]A Washington Post article stated that:

"Hartmann noted the study was retrospective, that it lacked controls or independent measurements, and was based entirely on self-reports by people who were motivated to say they had changed because of their affiliation with ex-gay or anti-gay groups."

[*]Jack Drescher, M.D., of the American Psychiatric Association wrote a letter to the Finish Parliament which discussed the Spitzer study:

"As for the scientific merits of his study, I believe it is significantly flawed. One flaw is that the majority of subjects in the study had one 45-minute telephone interview with Dr. Spitzer and no follow-ups. Other than Dr. Spitzer, I can find no reputable researcher who will agree that this is an accurate way to assess whether a person has changed their sexuality. That point was underscored in another study presented at the same symposium. Schroeder and Shidlo's study [in press] found that many individuals who claimed to have changed sexual orientation during a first telephone interview changed their story at a second, follow-up interview."

[*]Doug Nave of Covenant Network of Presbyterians commented:

"...the subjects did not have any anonymity that might help them candidly report unfavorable outcomes; Spitzer could not assess their credibility face-to-face; and the findings were based entirely on the subjects' self-report (rather than, e.g., physiological measures of arousal), which research has shown is often very misleading. In addition, Spitzer's study has not been subject to any peer review or other normal professional tests of validity. Some therefore believe that the study merits no credit at all."[/list]

Need I go on?