On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You're saying that natural remedies are equitable to concentrating on a mans face long enough to make your baby look like him? That's ricockulous! Most medicines are a result of combining natural products. It's just silly to say that the basis for the medical industry is tantamount to an old wives tale. It's also an old wives tale that garlic will keep vampires away. But, then you'd be silly on two accounts.

Seems like if it's a man? This isn't exestential studies. If it's stupid, it's stupid. Be it from a man or a woman.

So, you think it's stupid, good for you. Either way, the actual old wives tale states that if a pregnant woman HATES a man, her baby will look like him, so pregnant women are taught to be steady in their emotions about a man. What I decided to do is think about what happens when a woman hates a man, well, ironically, HE becomes the focal point, she talks about him, thinks about him and pictures him.

Oh, about vampires, if you consider mosquitoes something like a vampire that sucks blood, then yes, it's true, most bugs hate garlic, esp. the ones that suck your blood.

What illusion am I shattering if this happens to be true?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Have you considered the possibility that demons are just a way of people in ancient times to express the activity of pathogens? Also, today’s understanding of demons maybe just religious hysteria, have you considered that?

Have I? Of course.

ok, I'll try to explain this but it'll be a little choppy.

Let's say that life is made up of 4 forms.

A
abstract /mind

b
matrix/mathematical makeup of a human beings

c
character/individual

d
physical body

And the soul is tied into all three in a "special way" esp. for humans. Let's say and it has to house itself in the soul, and manifests itself in the physical body, but it all starts in the mind or abstract.

That's why when someone is struggling with gay issues, it starts in the mind. But that's where the battle starts.

Originally posted by Oncewhite
Have I? Of course.

ok, I'll try to explain this but it'll be a little choppy.

Let's say that life is made up of 4 forms.

A
abstract /mind

b
matrix/mathematical makeup of a human beings

c
character/individual

d
physical body

And the soul is tied into all three in a "special way" esp. for humans. Let's say and it has to house itself in the soul, and manifests itself in the physical body, but it all starts in the mind or abstract.

That's why when someone is struggling with gay issues, it starts in the mind. But that's where the battle starts.

What battle ? Social stigma is what causes the conflict. Most Gay people are perfectly fine and happy with the way they are.

There is nothing wrong with being Gay, so get over it.

Originally posted by Oncewhite
So, you think it's stupid, good for you. Either way, the actual old wives tale states that if a pregnant woman HATES a man, her baby will look like him, so pregnant women are taught to be steady in their emotions about a man. What I decided to do is think about what happens when a woman hates a man, well, ironically, HE becomes the focal point, she talks about him, thinks about him and pictures him.

Oh, about vampires, if you consider mosquitoes something like a vampire that sucks blood, then yes, it's true, most bugs hate garlic, esp. the ones that suck your blood.

What illusion am I shattering if this happens to be true?

If it's stupid, it's stupid. And, yes, it is.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Since you didn't seem to get it the first time:

If it's stupid, it's stupid. And, yes, it is.

It's only because it's "old wives tales", that's your problem with it. And the fact that this could prove that women have a lot of power. 💃

Sorry that annoys your sensibilities 😠 , it'll be ok, every man is born of a woman, even if he doesn't want to admit it. 🙂

Originally posted by Oncewhite
It's only because it's "old wives tales", that's your problem with it. And the fact that this could prove that women have a lot of power. 💃

Sorry that annoys your sensibilities 😠 , it'll be ok, every man is born of a woman, even if he doesn't want to admit it. 🙂

Do you have any clue what you are talking about ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Do you have any clue what you are talking about ?

yes.

Romans 1

In the Epistle to the Romans 1:26-27 (TNIV), Paul writes

"Because of this [idolatry], God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

This has been described as "the most important biblical reference for the homosexuality debate" (Hilborn 2002, p.5). It is also the only explicit reference in the Bible to female homosexuality. Hilborn (2002, p.6) argues that in the wider passage (Romans 1:18-32) Paul writes that the "global scope of salvation history has been made manifest not only in ‘the gospel of God's Son’ (cf. v.9), but also in the very ‘creation of the world’ (v.20)." In common with many traditional commentators, Hilborn (2002, p.7) goes on to argue that the condemnation of homosexual sex (whether consensual or not) is derived from the "broad contours" of Paul's argument, rather than from the selective reading of individual words or phrases.

However, a minority of more recent interpreters (eg., Boswell 1980, p.109f; Vasey 1995, p.131f) argue that Paul does not have in mind a system of natural laws (as this is an Enlightenment concept) and that "Paul did not discuss gay persons, but only homosexual acts committed by heterosexual persons" (Boswell 1980, p.109). McNeil (1993) argues that a proper understanding of this passage should focus on heterosexuals who "abandoned" or "exchanged" heterosexual sex for homosexual sex, which is against nature and therefore idolatrous.

Interesting.

Originally posted by Oncewhite
It's only because it's "old wives tales", that's your problem with it. And the fact that this could prove that women have a lot of power. 💃

Sorry that annoys your sensibilities 😠 , it'll be ok, every man is born of a woman, even if he doesn't want to admit it. 🙂

are you a woman? if so, this seems like a really lame way to build self esteem... i.e. believing women have the supernatural power to rewrite DNA by force of will or whatever your nonsensical theories are.

as for your "old wives tale," it's more likely that a woman obsessed with and hateful of the father of her child is going to see that man every time she looks at the child. you did the same thing when you perceived that someone thought your post was stupid because they were misogynous, when it should be obvious to any outside observer that it was because you equated medicine with an "old wives tale." elements within your "mind" distorted/effected your perception of reality

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Spitzer, as in Dr. Robert Spitzer, Jesuit priest:

[list][*]APA president, Lawrence Hartmann, a professor at Harvard Medical School, called Spitzer's study "too flawed to publish."

[*]A Washington Post article stated that:

"Hartmann noted the study was retrospective, that it lacked controls or independent measurements, and was based entirely on self-reports by people who were motivated to say they had changed because of their affiliation with ex-gay or anti-gay groups."

[*]Jack Drescher, M.D., of the American Psychiatric Association wrote a letter to the Finish Parliament which discussed the Spitzer study:

"As for the scientific merits of his study, I believe it is significantly flawed. One flaw is that the majority of subjects in the study had one 45-minute telephone interview with Dr. Spitzer and no follow-ups. Other than Dr. Spitzer, I can find no reputable researcher who will agree that this is an accurate way to assess whether a person has changed their sexuality. That point was underscored in another study presented at the same symposium. Schroeder and Shidlo's study [in press] found that many individuals who claimed to have changed sexual orientation during a first telephone interview changed their story at a second, follow-up interview."

[*]Doug Nave of Covenant Network of Presbyterians commented:

"...the subjects did not have any anonymity that might help them candidly report unfavorable outcomes; Spitzer could not assess their credibility face-to-face; and the findings were based entirely on the subjects' self-report (rather than, e.g., physiological measures of arousal), which research has shown is often very misleading. In addition, Spitzer's study has not been subject to any peer review or other normal professional tests of validity. Some therefore believe that the study merits no credit at all."[/list]

Need I go on?

Originally posted by Nellinator
Yes. Please attack Socarides.
And what about ex-gays? Their testimony is often brushed aside, but is actually very powerful. The evidence that change is possible is there. It needs further study and support. If I ever go for my PhD I might go with a thesis and study on reparitive therapy.

1) AS Adam Poe already clarified, most people who claim to be "ex gay" have only made these claims once, and have never been followed throught afterward.

2) Possible change IS there, but not through will power. People DO change from being gay to straight, and straight to gay, yes, but the change happens on ITS OWN

I already stated how my ex boyfreind grew up straight and slowly turned Gay over time, but it was not his choice. His preferences changed due to unknown factors.

3) Reparitive Therapy ? Why do you care so much about other people's sex lives ? You want to interfere in an area of a person' life that is NONE of your business ?

this obsession with Homosexuality is fkn rediculous. It's nothing NEW..its existed for thousands of years back....you're not gonna "fix" it, so cut it out already. We are people just like you, there is NOTHING wrong with us, so leave it be. We are NOT deformed, deviant, maligant ,etc. Enough with this bullshit already. You are NOT helping, you are only making things worse.

If everyone WERE in fact Straight, we'd have a massive overpopulation issue, wouldnt we ?

Interview is a poor methodology for sexuality study. An fMRI approach would be far more objective.

Homosexuals prevent overpopulation?

Puh-leeze.

Even an extremely liberal estimate of 10% of the population wouldn't make that much of a difference.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Homosexuals prevent overpopulation?

Puh-leeze.

Even an extremely liberal estimate of 10% of the population wouldn't make that much of a difference.

1) 10% of the population being Gay is not an accurate measure, as those 10 percent are the only 10 percent who admitted to being Gay. You forgot the millions of other closet cases who cannot be included in that bullshit estimate.

2) Over time, for thousands of years, homosexuality activity has prevented many births. YES my freind, Homosexuality is the least violent and most effective way to limit population.

3) Not all Gays are Liberal you dumbass 👇

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) AS Adam Poe already clarified, most people who claim to be "ex gay" have only made these claims once, and have never been followed throught afterward.

2) Possible change IS there, but not through will power. People DO change from being gay to straight, and straight to gay, yes, but the change happens on ITS OWN

I already stated how my ex boyfreind grew up straight and slowly turned Gay over time, but it was not his choice. His preferences changed due to unknown factors.

3) Reparitive Therapy ? Why do you care so much about other people's sex lives ? You want to interfere in an area of a person' life that is NONE of your business ?

this obsession with Homosexuality is fkn rediculous. It's nothing NEW..its existed for thousands of years back....you're not gonna "fix" it, so cut it out already. We are people just like you, there is NOTHING wrong with us, so leave it be. We are NOT deformed, deviant, maligant ,etc. Enough with this bullshit already. You are NOT helping, you are only making things worse.

If everyone WERE in fact Straight, we'd have a massive overpopulation issue, wouldnt we ?

2) It can be changed through reparitive therapy. However, there are complex ethics involved.

3) If it becomes my business am I not then allowed to interfere? When they ask for my help?

I stick to a strict ethical code when dealing with homosexuals. If it is not apart of their issues then I do not bring it up. Some do want to change. If they ask me to help them change I am willing to provide methods and strategies that help them change. It is a difficult process, but the measures taken should never involve pain or forcing the patient to do anything against their will. For some homosexuals, their sexuality is a problem for them. In these cases, I am obligated to try and help them deal with their problems. If they do not want my help I do not give it to them in those areas. I'm not out to try and change them, but finding out whether it can be done is worth consideration.

And I agree with your last statement xmarksthespot. The more objective we can be the better in most cases. Empiricial evidence in the matter is worth seeking.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) 10% of the population being Gay is not an accurate measure, as those 10 percent are the only 10 percent who admitted to being Gay. You forgot the millions of other closet cases who cannot be included in that bullshit estimate.

2) Over time, for thousands of years, homosexuality activity has prevented many births. YES my freind, Homosexuality is the least violent and most effective way to limit population.

3) Not all Gays are Liberal you dumbass 👇

Originally posted by Nellinator
1) Ex-gays do exist and many of them are no longer gay when they once were.

Oh I know, so do ex-straights. But no one changes over night, and no one changes by choice. Therapy involves a mix of submission and external factors.

The fact that there is EVEN a "struggle" with one's sexual identity means a clear choice is not involved. Do you agree or disagree?

Originally posted by Nellinator
2) It can be changed through reparitive therapy. However, there are complex ethics involved.

It can also be changed ON ITS OWN...people have been known to have thier sexual preferences shifted...but most of the time, it wasn't voluntary. It happens due to factors that are not determined at this time.

Originally posted by Nellinator
3) If it becomes my business am I not then allowed to interfere? When they ask for my help?

When they ask for your help, yes.

Although it is much more helpful and much less time staking to get a Gay person to ACCEPT who he or she is, rather than to encourage the bullshit beleif that there is something wrong with them.

But then agian....I support a person's decision to get plastic surgery if they are truly unhappy with thier physical appearance. So why wouldn't I support Reparative Therapy if the person truly wants to change thier sexual identity ?

It has to go both ways, I am sure you must support plastic surgery as a means of physical change as well ✅

Originally posted by Nellinator
I stick to a strict ethical code when dealing with homosexuals. If it is not apart of their issues then I do not bring it up. Some do want to change. If they ask me to help them change I am willing to provide methods and strategies that help them change. It is a difficult process, but the measures taken should never involve pain or forcing the patient to do anything against their will. For some homosexuals, their sexuality is a problem for them. In these cases, I am obligated to try and help them deal with their problems. If they do not want my help I do not give it to them in those areas. I'm not out to try and change them, but finding out whether it can be done is worth consideration.

Read the above.....

Originally posted by Nellinator
And I agree with your last statement xmarksthespot. The more objective we can be the better in most cases. Empiricial evidence in the matter is worth seeking.

Somehow I fear this "I am just trying to help homosexuals who want to change" crusade will slowly transform into a "WE HAVE THE CURE FOR HOMOSEXUALITY ! ALL HOMOS MUST REPORT FOR MANDITORY TREATMENT"

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
3) Not all Gays are Liberal you dumbass 👇

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You misinterpret the meaning of liberal and I highly doubt homosexuality has been the major force limiting overpopulation.

1) Not major, least violent and very successful method

2) What meaning of Liberal did he mean then ? Not all Gays are Liberal.....do you not know this ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) Not major, least violent and very successful method

2) What meaning of Liberal did he mean then ? Not all Gays are Liberal.....do you not know this ?

Originally posted by FeceMan