On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Started by xmarksthespot274 pages
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Second, researchers at the University of Illinois Chicago recently combed the entire human genome for genetic determinates of sexuality and found them on chromosomes 7, 8, and 10. The allele combinations on these chromosomes determine whether one will be heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

They've discovered the genetic determinants for sexuality? Intriguing. Though I'd wager the penetrance of the particular alleles is probably not very high, no?

As for The Bible, a book full of incongruities, being 100% true. I would ask you to provide specific examples. Da Vinci's sketchbook is more prophetic.

Part 1

So that this does not become a thesis paper, I will provide a classic example for each one I listed before.
fulfilled prophecy TYRE, had a remarkable prophecy concerning it, in Isaiah 23 (in 715BC) and in Ezekiel 26 (in 588BC), ----- this is what they predicted : 1. That Nebuchadnezzar (the Chaldeans) will destroy the mainland city of Tyre (Isa.23:13 ; Ez.26:8). 2. At the end of 70 years, Tyre will recover and to return to business (Isa.23:15-17). 3. That Tyre would give some of her earnings to the Lord (Isa.23:18). 4. That many nations will come against Tyre (Ez.26:3). 5. The rubble of the city will be thrown into the sea (Ez.26:12). 6. That Tyre will be scraped flat like the top of a rock (Ez.26:4). 7. Tyre will finally be destroyed and never be rebuilt (26:14).
This is how those prophecies were fulfilled : 1. Nebuchadnezzar laid seige to mainland Tyre in 585BC, and overthrew it in 573BC, and the people of Tyre retreated to an island half a mile off the shore, and built up a city there. 2. 70 years later, when the Persians overthrew Babylon, island-Tyre recovered to prosper fairly well. 3. Cyrus, king of Persia, forced island-Tyre to contribute materials to rebuild Yaweh's Temple in Jerusalem. 4. The Assyrians and Egyptians attacked Tyre, and Alexander the Great (Greece) brought military forces from Sidon, Aradus, Byblus, Rhodes, Soli, Mallos, Lycia, Macedon and Cyprus. 5. Alexander's forces took the stones & rubble of fallen mainland Tyre, and threw it into the sea, to build a causeway out to the island-city of Tyre. 6. To smooth out the causeway, the lose topsoil and "dust" was scraped off and added to the causeway. 7. Alexander reduced island-Tyre to ruins in 332BC, and although people tried to rebuild it, island-Tyre was completely destroyed by the Saracens in 1291AD. Though an condominium area they call "Tyre" has been built a few miles away, the flat-topped site where the ancient ruins used to be has never been rebuilt, despite a flowing spring of fresh water running through it. That flat site is still only used for the spreading of nets.
multiple witnesses (Extremely small list)(Biblical) Matthew, Mark, Luke, John ( (secular) Josephus, Cornelius Tacitus, Suetonius

part 2

archeological evidence Archaeologists have consistently discovered the names of government officials, kings, cities, and festivals mentioned in the Bible--sometimes when historians didn't think such people or places existed. For example, the Gospel of John tells of Jesus healing a cripple next to the Pool of Bethesda. The text even describes the five porticoes (walkways) leading to the pool. Scholars didn't think the pool even existed, until archaeologists found it forty feet below ground, complete with the five porticoes. Hypothesis suggests that Moses could not have written the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible), because writing was non-existent in his day. Then archaeologists discovered the Black Stele. "It had wedge-shaped characters on it and contained the detailed laws of Hammurrabi. Was it post-Moses? No! It was pre-Mosaic; not only that, but it was pre-Abraham (2,000 B.C.). It preceded Moses' writings by at least three centuries. The Bible has a tremendous amount of historical detail, so not everything mentioned in it has been found through archaeology. However, not one archaeological find has conflicted with what the Bible records.
personal experiance This is refering to people's encounters with God. I am an example of this as well as many others as they disply a Christian change in their life.
It was written over 1500 years and remains in harmony and textually unchanged. Over the centuries, disregarding language translation, the Bible has not changed more than .5%! Every other religous book has had major changes over the years 3-37 times. The Bible claims to be the inspired word of God and is the most well documented and backed up pieces of evidence in the world. In issues of credibilty, it has a higher credibilty rating than all other book or evidence in any society or court of law. But, as soon as you say "Bible" people assume it is wrong because it is old. This is the logical fallacy Argumentum ad novitatem. This means that whatever is new is better and the old is wrong or absolete.
The reason I took the time to defend the Bible's accuracy first is that without it, all else fails. Laws and morality mean nothing because it would be up to each individual what is right or wrong rather than having a universal standard.

part 3

I picked the homosexual issue because there are some christians who say it is OK to be a christian and be homosexual while other christians say it is not OK to be homosexual and a christian. It is my premise that homosexuals do not sin more than those who practice pre-marital sex or adultery (as well as incest and bestiality (these have been around for thousands of years. The Bible even records it.). I just chose the homosexual issue because people treat them "special" or like dirt. I have several friends who are gay and disagree with me on the issue (obviously) but I still treat with with Jesus love and respect.

I got to go study for a final. Can't wait for your comments.

Hi different

I gave up on reading your thesis paper. What you had to say was good, but I lost interest. I'm not good at one sided conversations. 😄

It's long....can it be put into something shorter and to the point? 🙂

Re: part 3

different >

First, it is common in works of fiction to refer to actual people, places, and events as a means to establish setting. In Fatherland, author Robert Harris references many actual people, places, and events, but it does not follow from this Hitler is still alive, or that Germany won World War II; despite these references, his book is still a work of fiction.

Second, the earliest gospel was written 80 years after the death of Jesus. It is hardly remarkable for a "prophecy" to come to pass when it was made after the events had already transpired.

Furthermore, the accuracy of The Bible is highly questionable. For example, there is no anthropological evidence that the Hebrews were ever in Egypt, let alone enslaved by the Egyptians for over 400 years as claimed in The Bible. Not to mention the scientific errors. If The Bible is correct, bats are not mammals, but birds.

Well said, good points.

Re: Re: part 3

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Furthermore, the accuracy of The Bible is highly questionable. For example, there is no anthropological evidence that the Hebrews were ever in Egypt, let alone enslaved by the Egyptians for over 400 years as claimed in The Bible. Not to mention the scientific errors. If The Bible is correct, bats are not mammals, but birds.

I've always seen the bible as a book of human trues, not facts. When I say "human trues" I'm not talking about "the truth", I'm talking about the human condition.

yes.its in the cammandments.in that case y did he only adam and eve.

Originally posted by feralboy
yes.its in the cammandments.in that case y did he only adam and eve.

Witch commandment is that?

1. You shall have no other gods before me.
2. You shall not make for yourselves an idol.
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
4. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Duh.. commandment 11... Thou shalt selectively quote and interpret The Bible, a work of incongruities and inconsistencies, in any way one wishes to support one's own prejudices.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Duh.. commandment 11... Thou shalt selectively quote and interpret The Bible, a work of incongruities and inconsistencies, in any way one wishes to support one's own prejudices.

I couldn't have said it better. clapping

Re: Re: part 3

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

Furthermore, the accuracy of The Bible is highly questionable.

This sentence disappoints me. I though more highly of you.

Commandment 12 : Thou shalt not take the Bible literally.

Originally posted by svnthdysthsbbth

Are you gay?

😂, lets just cut the chit hat and get right to business so seventh day is the holy sabbath answer the man 😂

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled; That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God. [ Leviticus 18:30 ]

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. [ Leviticus 20:13 ]

Abomination
This word is used, (1.) To express the idea that the Egyptians
considered themselves as defiled when they ate with strangers
(Gen. 43:32). The Jews subsequently followed the same practice,
holding it unlawful to eat or drink with foreigners (John 18:28;
Acts 10:28; 11:3).

(2.) Every shepherd was "an abomination" unto the Egyptians
(Gen. 46:34). This aversion to shepherds, such as the Hebrews,
arose probably from the fact that Lower and Middle Egypt had
formerly been held in oppressive subjection by a tribe of nomad
shepherds (the Hyksos), who had only recently been expelled, and
partly also perhaps from this other fact that the Egyptians
detested the lawless habits of these wandering shepherds.

(3.) Pharaoh was so moved by the fourth plague, that while he
refused the demand of Moses, he offered a compromise, granting
to the Israelites permission to hold their festival and offer
their sacrifices in Egypt. This permission could not be
accepted, because Moses said they would have to sacrifice "the
abomination of the Egyptians" (Ex. 8:26); i.e., the cow or ox,
which all the Egyptians held as sacred, and which they regarded
it as sacrilegious to kill.

(4.) Daniel (11:31), in that section of his prophecies which
is generally interpreted as referring to the fearful calamities
that were to fall on the Jews in the time of Antiochus
Epiphanes, says, "And they shall place the abomination that
maketh desolate." Antiochus Epiphanes caused an altar to be
erected on the altar of burnt-offering, on which sacrifices were
offered to Jupiter Olympus. (Comp. 1 Macc. 1:57). This was the
abomination of the desolation of Jerusalem. The same language is
employed in Dan. 9:27 (comp. Matt. 24:15), where the reference
is probably to the image-crowned standards which the Romans set
up at the east gate of the temple (A.D. 70), and to which they
paid idolatrous honours. "Almost the entire religion of the
Roman camp consisted in worshipping the ensign, swearing by the
ensign, and in preferring the ensign before all other gods."
These ensigns were an "abomination" to the Jews, the
"abomination of desolation."

This word is also used symbolically of sin in general (Isa.
66:3); an idol (44:19); the ceremonies of the apostate Church of
Rome (Rev. 17:4); a detestable act (Ezek. 22:11).

08441 tow`ebah {to-ay-baw'} or to`ebah {to-ay-baw'}
act part of 08581; TWOT - 2530a; n f
AV - abomination 113, abominable thing 2, abominable 2; 117
1) a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable 1a) in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages) 1b) in ethical sense (of wickedness etc)

Originally posted by svnthdysthsbbth
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled; That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God. [ Leviticus 18:30 ]

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. [ Leviticus 20:13 ]

Abomination
This word is used, (1.) To express the idea that the Egyptians
considered themselves as defiled when they ate with strangers
(Gen. 43:32). The Jews subsequently followed the same practice,
holding it unlawful to eat or drink with foreigners (John 18:28;
Acts 10:28; 11:3).

(2.) Every shepherd was "an abomination" unto the Egyptians
(Gen. 46:34). This aversion to shepherds, such as the Hebrews,
arose probably from the fact that Lower and Middle Egypt had
formerly been held in oppressive subjection by a tribe of nomad
shepherds (the Hyksos), who had only recently been expelled, and
partly also perhaps from this other fact that the Egyptians
detested the lawless habits of these wandering shepherds.

(3.) Pharaoh was so moved by the fourth plague, that while he
refused the demand of Moses, he offered a compromise, granting
to the Israelites permission to hold their festival and offer
their sacrifices in Egypt. This permission could not be
accepted, because Moses said they would have to sacrifice "the
abomination of the Egyptians" (Ex. 8:26); i.e., the cow or ox,
which all the Egyptians held as sacred, and which they regarded
it as sacrilegious to kill.

(4.) Daniel (11:31), in that section of his prophecies which
is generally interpreted as referring to the fearful calamities
that were to fall on the Jews in the time of Antiochus
Epiphanes, says, "And they shall place the abomination that
maketh desolate." Antiochus Epiphanes caused an altar to be
erected on the altar of burnt-offering, on which sacrifices were
offered to Jupiter Olympus. (Comp. 1 Macc. 1:57). This was the
abomination of the desolation of Jerusalem. The same language is
employed in Dan. 9:27 (comp. Matt. 24:15), where the reference
is probably to the image-crowned standards which the Romans set
up at the east gate of the temple (A.D. 70), and to which they
paid idolatrous honours. "Almost the entire religion of the
Roman camp consisted in worshipping the ensign, swearing by the
ensign, and in preferring the ensign before all other gods."
These ensigns were an "abomination" to the Jews, the
"abomination of desolation."

This word is also used symbolically of sin in general (Isa.
66:3); an idol (44:19); the ceremonies of the apostate Church of
Rome (Rev. 17:4); a detestable act (Ezek. 22:11).

08441 tow`ebah {to-ay-baw'} or to`ebah {to-ay-baw'}
act part of 08581; TWOT - 2530a; n f
AV - abomination 113, abominable thing 2, abominable 2; 117
1) a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable 1a) in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages) 1b) in ethical sense (of wickedness etc)

The bible is wrong.

Do you have an ideas of your own?

Have you ever met someone who is homosexual?

The judgments made by the bible are only valid if there is not enough people to survive. With 6 billion on the planet, we have nothing to worry about.

Homosexuality is natural and is a form of natural birth control.