On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Originally posted by Robtard
So in theory, a person who is "saved" like yourself has no sins, since you we're able to force aqay the dmons of sodomy, gluttony, greed, envy etc... Groovy, but it sounds pompous to me.

Now do you see why I said in a previous post,

"At least you got the gist of what I am saying--this time...."

I was not being sarcastic. I meant that you did not misquote or misunderstand my intent or words.

But then you post this reply and have me in doubts again. Where did I say anything about saved folk not having any sins? Here we go again (I have said in times past that this is a perennial problem here: folks misquoting me or not understanding what I say, but mainly misquoting me). Here is what I said:

".... Not everyone has the same things that they are more prone to than others. I am not susceptible to the same things that you are Rob. and perhaps vice versa...."

This statement does not indicate that I do not have things that I do not struggle with. It just states that it may not be the exact same things that you have a challenge with. Do you follow me. I am "saved" and on my way to Heaven. But as long as I am in this sinful, fleshly body (that wants to sin constantly 24/7 because it is not born again, my spirit is, but my body is not) I will be tempted to sin. I must take steps to keep my flesh in line moment-by-moment, everyday for the rest of my life (while on earth).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
To be more technical Rob. I believe that homosexuals are simply heeding seducing spirits. They are listening to and falling vicitm to lying, demonic spirits who are influencing them adversely. Evil spirits have different assignments. They are a root of so many of humanities problems and issues (behaviorly and emotionally). This does not mean that people are demonically possessed (although some are). It just means that humanity is constantly receiving suggestions from demons (who are invisible by nature) to do all sorts of sinful works of the flesh. Yes homosexuality is a sinful work of the flesh. But demons cannot "make" anyone sin (unless of course that person is demon-possessed) all that they can do is put the idea in your mind. We have a choice whether we will obey or act on what we entertain in our minds. We have a choice about what we do with our bodies.

So if I fall in love with another guy, its cuz a demon made me do so ?

1) I never thought a demon could create or provoke "love"

2) I didn't know Love/Attraction was something an evil spirit can tamper with, doesn't that violate Free Will ?

3) I always thought as we fall in love, it happens by itself, and without our permission. Atleast that's been my experience.

I admit it is my CHOICE to respond to my emotions, but I never choose what my emotions or attractions are. You fail to understand that.

And if homosexuality is really provoked by evil spirits, then why do they waste thier time provoking animals to have homosexual sex ? Human Beings are not the only people who engage in homo activity...animals have been doing it forever baby !

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Now do you see why I said in a previous post,

"At least you got the gist of what I am saying--this time...."

I was not being sarcastic. I meant that you did not misquote or misunderstand my intent or words.

But then you post this reply and have me in doubts again. Where did I say anything about saved folk not having any sins? Here we go again (I have said in times past that this is a perennial problem here: folks misquoting me or not understanding what I say, but mainly misquoting me). Here is what I said:

".... Not everyone has the same things that they are more prone to than others. I am not susceptible to the same things that you are Rob. and perhaps vice versa...."

This statement does not indicate that I do not have things that I do not struggle with. It just states that it may not be the exact same things that you have a challenge with. Do you follow me. I am "saved" and on my way to Heaven. But as long as I am in this sinful, fleshly body (that wants to sin constantly 24/7 because it is not born again, my spirit is, but my body is not) I will be tempted to sin. I must take steps to keep my flesh in line moment-by-moment, everyday for the rest of my life (while on earth).

I said "in theory", not in fact...

Here, where you said "Actually if you are not saved then you are already in their bag. Their purpose is to keep you from ever finding out the truth about God's love for you and to keep you from following God", lead me to believe that if one is "saved" they are therefore not subject to being seduced by the invisible sin demons, in theory.

And I have never misquoted you, when I quote you, I copy and paste from your own post. It's as verbatim as can possibly be.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Human Beings are not the only people who engage in homo activity...animals have been doing it forever baby !

You really enjoy pointing that out, don't you?

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Any biologists out there? Why the Hell are there gay animals???

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You really enjoy pointing that out, don't you?

----------------

Any biologists out there? Why the Hell are there gay animals???

Animals aren't gay as we define being gay, animals by and large react on instinct. Example, when male (females too) dogs mount each other, it isn't for sex, it is for dominance. No, I am not a biologist, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

Originally posted by Robtard
Example, when male dogs mount each other, it isn't for sex, it is for dominance.

How is that not gay? He's willingly and knowingly ****ing another male; which is gay.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, I am not a biologist, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

😆 shock

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Hmm...how does that indicate dominance?

And how is that not gay? He's willingly and knowingly ****ing another male; which is gay.

😆 shock

Superior vs. Inferior

Because it isn't done for sexual pleasure or attraction, animals do not run on emotions like we do, when Urizen pony-ups some guy it is because he has an innate sexual attraction to the guy. A dog does not have these same emotions, it's instinct. So homosexuality as we define it does not really exist in the animal kingdom.

Also, I've been around many dogs, when males mount each other they go through the motions of sex, but they do not get erections. There is no anal penetration. Not saying it has never happened, but it isn't the norm.

Originally posted by Robtard
when Urizen pony-ups some guy it is because he has an innate sexual attraction to the guy.

😆 So he's the giver and not the b*tch?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
😆 So he's the giver and not the b*tch?

You'd have to ask him. I'd guess he switches to fit the mood.

Originally posted by debbiejo
What about the false spirits of religion and prophecy, tongues...and false interpretations, and ..........

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What?

Originally posted by Robtard
I said "in theory", not in fact...

Here, where you said "Actually if you are not saved then you are already in their bag. Their purpose is to keep you from ever finding out the truth about God's love for you and to keep you from following God", lead me to believe that if one is "saved" they are therefore not subject to being seduced by the invisible sin demons, in theory.

And I have never misquoted you, when I quote you, I copy and paste from your own post. It's as verbatim as can possibly be.

What are invisible sin demons? I am just joking because I am a semanticist.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The spirits of:
Goft of prophecy
evangelism
shepherding
teaching
exhortartation
Knowing demons
knowledge and wisdom
helps
hospitality
Giving
goverment
showing mercy
Faith
decermement of all evil or not.
miracles healings
tongues and interpretation of
false spirits of all these things as mentioned ina book" How to try a spirit" totally from the Christian book store.

I don't understand what you mean Debbiejoe?

Originally posted by Robtard
Superior vs. Inferior

Because it isn't done for sexual pleasure or attraction, animals do not run on emotions like we do, when Urizen pony-ups some guy it is because he has an innate sexual attraction to the guy. A dog does not have these same emotions, it's instinct. So homosexuality as we define it does not really exist in the animal kingdom.

Also, I've been around many dogs, when males mount each other they go through the motions of sex, but they do not get erections. There is no anal penetration. Not saying it has never happened, but it isn't the norm.

You are completely wrong about this....that "dominance" theory has nothing to support it.

Homosexuality does exist between animals....

First of all you do not know whether or not animals have emotions...when you have a pet of your own, like a dog, and then see the affection it has towards you, come back and tell me he or she has no emotions...

Secondly, it is very common that homosexual activity occurs in animals...is it the norm? No....but it happens. Anal Penetration does occur quite often between male mammals (and even reptiles 😘 )

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
😆 So he's the giver and not the b*tch?

Robtard's right about that...i switch depending on what i feel like doing. 😉

I am very generous, but i also want some in return.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't understand what you mean Debbiejoe?

The facking of spirits:
fake every one of these things.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You are completely wrong about this....that "dominance" theory has nothing to support it.

Homosexuality does exist between animals....

First of all you do not know whether or not animals have emotions...when you have a pet of your own, like a dog, and then see the affection it has towards you, come back and tell me he or she has no emotions...

Secondly, it is very common that homosexual activity occurs in animals...is it the norm? No....but it happens. Anal Penetration does occur quite often between male mammals (and even reptiles 😘 )

Animals do not have the higher brain capabilities like we do, so therefore what we consider to be homosexual does not fit the bill when applied to animals. When males dogs mount each other do you seriously think it is because the mounting dog finds the other male dogs snout, eyes, legs, penis, scrotum and anus attractive in an emotional sense? I am not saying animals are utterly emotionless, but when it comes to sex, they are instinctual.

I have no idea how much homosexual contact you have seen between animals and what the variety of species were. But I have been around dogs all my life and when male dogs mount other males dogs it is extremely rare that the 'aggresive' dog has an erection nor have I ever witnessed anal penetration. I have also seen many times female dog mount other male and female dogs and go through the action of sex, ask any dog trainer though, this is purely a dominance/pack mentality thing.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Deception is everywhere wtih false spirits as you believe. Mr. J

The facking of spirits:
fake every one of these things.

Mr. J? The facking of spirits, I apologize Debbiejoe but I have no idea what you are talking about.

Did Jesus Christ condemn homosexuality? Absolutely. Jesus does this by upholding God's standard of sex within marriage--between a man and a woman. So all sexual encounters "outside" of this is a sin.

Lies about Homosexuality

LIE #1: Some people are born homosexual.

FACT: There is no conclusive scientific evidence for any genetic trait causing homosexuality, bisexuality, or transgendered desires. Recent news reports have focused on this lack of research (Columbus Dispatch, Feb. 14, 1999;New York Times, April 23, 1999). Yet this is the underlying assumption of many recent laws about sexual orientation. Homosexuals are not a bona fide minority group.

LIE #2: Homosexual activity is harmless, so no one should criticize it.

FACT: The consequences of homosexual behavior are devastating, and risky homosexual acts continue even when community acceptance increases. In San Francisco, the rate of sexually transmitted diseases among homosexuals remains very high, despite a tolerant climate. Substance abuse and suicide attempts are much higher among homosexuals. For in-depth information citing numerous studies, read Straight or Narrow? Clarity and Compassion in the Homosexual Debate by Thomas Schmidt (1995) and Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth by Jeffrey Satinover, M.D. (1996).

LIE #3: No one chooses to be homosexual, so it must be inborn.

FACT: While homosexual desire may feel very natural to some people, this does not mean it is inborn, positive or unchangeable. There is overwhelming evidence that homosexual desire arises from traumatic childhood experiences, such as sexual abuse or a troubled family environment. These desires can be overcome through counseling. And—people always choose sexual behavior, even if the feelings aren’t chosen, unhealthy desires don’t have to be acted upon.

LIE #4: A homosexual can never change to become a heterosexual.

FACT: Thousands of people have overcome homosexual desire. A network of ex-homosexual organizations called Exodus (206-784-7799) has several hundred affiliates around the world. Exodus helps strugglers through Christian support groups, prayer, and biblical teaching. Some psychologists can help homosexuals overcome homosexual desire through individual counseling as well. Many ex-homosexuals go on to marry and have children.

LIE #5: The Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality. Therefore, a person can be a proud homosexual and a Christian, too.

FACT: Scripture is very clear about homosexuality. There are dire warnings in the Bible about homosexual practices, both for individuals and for communities. Read Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:10, 2 Peter 2: 6-10, and Jude 6-7. Some say that because Jesus did not explicitly mention homosexuality, it must be permitted. But He never mentioned rape or incest either—are we to believe these are acceptable? And Jesus was God, who had already made His will known in the Old Testament. Jesus affirmed in Matthew 19 and Mark 10 that marriage is ordained for one man and one woman. How can those who call themselves Christians deliberately twist the word of God?

Homosexuality is sin, but it is changeable. There is hope for all of us sinners, as expressed so beautifully in 2 Corinthians 5:17: "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/lies_about_homosexuality.htm

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Lies about Homosexuality

LIE #1: Some people are born homosexual.

LIE #2: Homosexual activity is harmless, so no one should criticize it.

LIE #3: No one chooses to be homosexual, so it must be inborn.

LIE #4: A homosexual can never change to become a heterosexual.

LIE #5: The Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality. Therefore, a person can be a proud homosexual and a Christian, too.

(I edited you post to save space)

1) There is no conclusive evidence that homosexuality isn't genetic, in fact, new studies do show a brain pattern activity difference between homosexuals and heterosexual, just as there is a difference between a serial murderer and a non murderer. This study is still fairly new, so the jury has to wait. The problem here is actually getting a true homosexual and heterosexual to test repeatedly. Just wait JIA, in time science will pull through yet again.

2) Homosexual sex is no more harmful or less harmful than heterosexual sex. It all comes down to education. Proof of this, Africa has the highest cases of sexual transmitted diseases (HIV-1 & HIV-2), yet studies show that homosexual activity is very low as is heterosexual anal intercourse. The majority of the desease tranferring is through penile/vaginal sexual contact, a.ka. heterosexual intercourse.

3) Refer to #1

4) & 5) Not everyone takes the Bible as the end all be all in judgement. But logically thinking, if you're born a true homosexual, then it would be against your nature to 'turn' straight.