Sidious and Dooku versus Mace and Yoda

You say Dooku controlled the CIS and Sidious did not? Alright, then. If that were the case, and Dooku clearly wanted to ascend to power and strike Sidious down, why didn't *HE* use the CIS to crush the Republic and Sidious with it, if it were truly more powerful and he had no fear of doing such a thing? Obviously he didn't. So you can explain to me why he didn't. 😄

On the Invisible hand, that is what Dooku tried to do: Kill Sidious, take his spot as Master and have Anakin as an apprentice. THEN he would resume with the CIS by using them to destroy the GAR. When Dooku was "Removed", it was a crushing blow to the CIS.

You ask why Sidious didn't reprogram the CIS bots? Well, duh, let's look at it. Sidious, even as Emperor, still acted under the guise that he had nothing to do with the CIS and the start of the war. So, gee, if he mysteriously gained access to reprogram the droids, it would look very odd, don't you think?

Mysteriously? All he would have to do is say he infiltrated the CIS Central Quarters and changed coding and made the Droids beckon to his call.

When you own the f*cking Galaxy, you don't give a shit what people think. It wasn't his army. That is why he destroyed it. He could have raked in loads of money from the CIS Leader's positioning and ties, not to mention already taken Out Rim worlds and a polished Army. He didn't own them, so he ultimately had them owned.

And, as for why he didn't do it before, he wanted the Clone Wars to occur. If there were no droids to fight against, there'd be no Clone Wars.

I never heard him say he wanted the Clone Wars to occur! Even so, I never said he wanted to do it prior to ROTS. HUH?

a) Dooku wanted to kill Sidious aboard the Invisible Hand, then? And he wanted Anakin as an apprentice? Odd. Why would he 'need' Anakin. Or why would he 'want' them, considering Dooku's hatred and disdain of Anakin? Perhaps he needed him... and as for the Invisible Hand, it is amazing how he could've killed Palpatine when the Dark Lord was shackled and bound to the throne, but he never did. And, amazingly, there were only two CIS droids around. And only the leadership knew of Sidious's control over the CIS. So... he effectively tried to usurp (if you can even say he 'tried) when there were no CIS officials around. Odd, don't you think? Especially considering how the CIS thread could totally CRUSH the Republic. 😉

b) But wouldn't anyone make investigations? Or perhaps how he knew of such things? Or his incredible knowledge of the CIS workings, even when he supposedly had nothing to do with them? The 'Clone Intel' excuse only stretches so far...

And, lol, Palpatine did indeed control the galaxy. But once more, there were seeds of rebellion. Imagine, lol, if he said that he was the Sith Lord who orchestrated it all, and was the CIS mastermind? Don't you think the 'seeds' would grow much faster and stronger? It was an intelligent political move, and was the smartest decision. But I suppose that never crossed your mind.

c) Lol AoTC. Last scene - where Dooku meets with Sidious. And, gee, what the hell do you think Sidious kept those Clones for? Asthetics?

Originally posted by Escape81
a) Dooku wanted to kill Sidious aboard the Invisible Hand, then? And he wanted Anakin as an apprentice? Odd. Why would he 'need' Anakin. Or why would he 'want' them, considering Dooku's hatred and disdain of Anakin? Perhaps he needed him... and as for the Invisible Hand, it is amazing how he could've killed Palpatine when the Dark Lord was shackled and bound to the throne, but he never did. And, amazingly, there were only two CIS droids around. And only the leadership knew of Sidious's control over the CIS. So... he effectively tried to usurp (if you can even say he 'tried) when there were no CIS officials around. Odd, don't you think? Especially considering how the CIS thread could totally CRUSH the Republic. 😉

b) But wouldn't anyone make investigations? Or perhaps how he knew of such things? Or his incredible knowledge of the CIS workings, even when he supposedly had nothing to do with them? The 'Clone Intel' excuse only stretches so far...

And, lol, Palpatine did indeed control the galaxy. But once more, there were seeds of rebellion. Imagine, lol, if he said that he was the Sith Lord who orchestrated it all, and was the CIS mastermind? Don't you think the 'seeds' would grow much faster and stronger? It was an intelligent political move, and was the smartest decision. But I suppose that never crossed your mind.

c) Lol AoTC. Last scene - where Dooku meets with Sidious. And, gee, what the hell do you think Sidious kept those Clones for? Asthetics?

a) Dooku wanted to kill Sidious aboard the Invisible Hand, then? And he wanted Anakin as an apprentice? Odd. Why would he 'need' Anakin. Or why would he 'want' them, considering Dooku's hatred and disdain of Anakin? Perhaps he needed him... and as for the Invisible Hand, it is amazing how he could've killed Palpatine when the Dark Lord was shackled and bound to the throne, but he never did. And, amazingly, there were only two CIS droids around. And only the leadership knew of Sidious's control over the CIS. So... he effectively tried to usurp (if you can even say he 'tried) when there were no CIS officials around. Odd, don't you think? Especially considering how the CIS thread could totally CRUSH the Republic. 😉

Now Dooku hated Anakin? Holy.... Dooku knew of Anakin's power as well, and wanted Anakin as an apprentice after he killed Sidious. Why the hell would he walk up to a shackled Politician and just slaughter him? Anakin would just detest Dooku's cause either way, but seeing as Anakin was easily influenced by Sidious, Dooku could probably do the same. Maybe tell Anakin of his Favorite Politican's intentions? If Sidious was so powerful, why would he stage for Dooku to die instead of killing him on his own? He probably needed Anakin to do it in order to not do it himself, considering he knew of Dooku's power. And why would Anakin killing a Sith Lord bring him to the Dark side? Palpatine wasn't trying to get Anakin on the Dark side by him killing Dooku. He was finding a sneaky way to elminate the Count without doing it himself, because Sidious is known for his Cowardice.

b) But wouldn't anyone make investigations? Or perhaps how he knew of such things? Or his incredible knowledge of the CIS workings, even when he supposedly had nothing to do with them? The 'Clone Intel' excuse only stretches so far...

Excuse? Funny how the Kaminoians even tell you that they aren't built with proper personality. Out of over 100,000 Soldiers, not one had remorse for the Jedi? Built like Robots, Escape. The Clones listened.... And Listened ONLY....

Investigations? Who? The Alliance? He wouldn't have cared! What happened the last time the Alliance tried that shit? Bye bye, Alderaan.

And, lol, Palpatine did indeed control the galaxy. But once more, there were seeds of rebellion. Imagine, lol, if he said that he was the Sith Lord who orchestrated it all, and was the CIS mastermind? Don't you think the 'seeds' would grow much faster and stronger? It was an intelligent political move, and was the smartest decision. But I suppose that never crossed your mind.

More excuses! If he owned the Galaxy, he would not have cared about what people would have thought. If someone said "But Sidious, how come u no use deh friggen CIS, mah man?"

Sidious: Well...You see... It wasn't mine to use, so I destroyed it. But if it was, I would secretly extract the Droids apon the Galaxy and make selective peace with the Rich, Rich CIS Leaders so I can feed off of profit! But if it wasn't, I would have all the Leaders killed and the Army shut down so it didn't interrupt my plans... Oh wait, Option B IS what I did! Damn.....

c) Lol AoTC. Last scene - where Dooku meets with Sidious. And, gee, what the hell do you think Sidious kept those Clones for? Asthetics?

Either way, I didn't argue the fact that he wanted the CIS eliminated or used for himself before ROTS.

a) Now let's see here:

If Dooku killed Palpatine, Anakin's mentor, it would push Anakin closer to the Dark Side, due to Anakin's unquestionable rage. Please recall Yoda's words. 'Anger leads to the Dark Side'. And yet Dooku did not. Curious...

Sidious and Dooku are both manipulators. But Sidious is a superior one, and I'd love to see you argue different. Anakin wasn't easy to convert to the Dark Side, and it required many conflicts in order to persuade him. Could Dooku have done it, especially considering he only had that one chance in ROTS to do it? Hell no.

Erm. Remember Anakin's regret after he did it? Dooku was also an unarmed prisoner, and executing him was against the Jedi Code. So, duh, no kidding. Also, he gave into his sheer hatred of Dooku by executing him, thus propelling him closer to the Dark Side. Killing Dooku DID propel Anakin to the precipice of chaos.

b) Ah, but he did. Again, he pretended to be a savior, even when orchestrating the entire disaster that is known as the Clone Wars. Curious enough if Palpatine simply didn't care. Hence why the Senate was eventually disbanded in ANH. They were a threat to his power. And, if you'd have paid attention, you'd know in ROTS that Palpatine couldn't have kept the star systems in line without the Senate in tact and supporting him. Amazing what you'd do if you followed the Clone's mandate and LISTENED yourself.

c) Looks like Sidious 'did' want the war, Sorgo. 🙂 And, the CIS, again, were already under Sidious's control.

a) Now let's see here:

If Dooku killed Palpatine, Anakin's mentor, it would push Anakin closer to the Dark Side, due to Anakin's unquestionable rage. Please recall Yoda's words. 'Anger leads to the Dark Side'. And yet Dooku did not. Curious...

Hehehe! I Highlight the word "Anakin's Mentor". It would have made Anakin's hate grow for Dooku, due to the fact that Dooku would be killing his Mentor, Anakin would have hated Dooku at a new Level, not to mention it would look like Dooku would be killing a Republican Politician. Yeah, boy is that ever f*cking smart.

Sidious and Dooku are both manipulators. But Sidious is a superior one, and I'd love to see you argue different. Anakin wasn't easy to convert to the Dark Side, and it required many conflicts in order to persuade him. Could Dooku have done it, especially considering he only had that one chance in ROTS to do it? Hell no.

But he thought he could. Yes, Sidious is the better Manipulator, But Dooku is the Superior Swordsman, and maybe the more Superior Force User.

Erm. Remember Anakin's regret after he did it? Dooku was also an unarmed prisoner, and executing him was against the Jedi Code. So, duh, no kidding. Also, he gave into his sheer hatred of Dooku by executing him, thus propelling him closer to the Dark Side. Killing Dooku DID propel Anakin to the precipice of chaos.

Palpatine was Anakin's mention and Anakin would have 90% listened to him, and he did. Killing a Sith Lord that cut off your arm would not really taint you Dark sided. I am sure any Jedi would have killed him too if they got their shit cut off.

b) Ah, but he did. Again, he pretended to be a savior, even when orchestrating the entire disaster that is known as the Clone Wars. Curious enough if Palpatine simply didn't care. Hence why the Senate was eventually disbanded in ANH. They were a threat to his power. And, if you'd have paid attention, you'd know in ROTS that Palpatine couldn't have kept the star systems in line without the Senate in tact and supporting him. Amazing what you'd do if you followed the Clone's mandate and LISTENED yourself.

c) Looks like Sidious 'did' want the war, Sorgo. 🙂 And, the CIS, again, were already under Sidious's control.

When the CW came to an end, and the Clones were virtually turned into Palpatine's empire, he could have just administered what was his army to be of full and titled usage. It would not have looked suspicious. The Galaxy already knew of his Evil. He was not portrayed as a Good guy during that time, and when he plotted the Empire against the Galaxy, he didn't look too good. He didn't care and if the CIs was his, he would have used them. They were not his, so he destroyed them.

Sidious won the War, no shit! But the CIS was not under Sidious' control!

a) Indeed it would've. But Anakin needed to hate Dooku sincerely if Dooku were to turn to the Dark Side. Considering Dooku is a capable manipulator, perhaps he could've eventually done it. In the same token, why did Dooku join Sidious, when Sidious was indirectly responsible for Qui-Gon's death? Simply because the benefits eventually negated the hatred.

b) What the HELL does that have to do with converting someone to the Dark Side? Sidious was by far the better manipulator, and Dooku's superior saber skills wouldn't exactly be essential in suborning Anakin. But as always, you've got to insert a Dooku 'superiority' remark. And, lol, he's Sidious's EQUAL in the Force at ABSOLUTE BEST. Prove to me he's superior. 😉

c) What the hell? No. PALPATINE didn't tell Anakin it was a bad thing. In fact, ANAKIN was the one who told Palpatine that it was a bad move, and Palpatine tried to brush it aside and told Anakin that it wasn't. So much for THAT theory.

d) Lmao. The galaxy DIDN'T know of his evil. God almighty. He tricked them into thinking Mace and the Jedi attacked him unjustly and that THEY were the evil ones. Only the small few group of Rebels knew the truth. Only during the times of ANH and ESB did the Empire look remotely evil to the eyes of the galaxy. Not during ROTS. So much for that ridiculous theory.

You're becoming rather reckless, Sorgo. Big gaping holes in your argument. Might want to cover them up.

a) Indeed it would've. But Anakin needed to hate Dooku sincerely if Dooku were to turn to the Dark Side. Considering Dooku is a capable manipulator, perhaps he could've eventually done it. In the same token, why did Dooku join Sidious, when Sidious was indirectly responsible for Qui-Gon's death? Simply because the benefits eventually negated the hatred.

And I have gaping holes? Qui Gon wasn't the only reason he joined the Sith. He was also sick of the Republic and he didn't believe in their views. Not to mentioned, he had practiced some of the Darkened ways of the Sith prior to joining Sidious. Maul was directly responsible for Jinn's death.

What the HELL does that have to do with converting someone to the Dark Side? Sidious was by far the better manipulator, and Dooku's superior saber skills wouldn't exactly be essential in suborning Anakin. But as always, you've got to insert a Dooku 'superiority' remark. And, lol, he's Sidious's EQUAL in the Force at ABSOLUTE BEST. Prove to me he's superior. 😉

Are you just a pure fool? The whole Versus aspect is that the characters are going to FIGHT! The fact that Sidious has manipulation skills will not matter when he has a Lightsaber to his throat. They are fighting. There is no other skill involved except for for Force and Saber skills. We did relevantly drift off topic, but point being was Dooku VS Sidious. Well, maybe not so much in this thread, actually. But even the other thread! Dooku VS Sidious: Drifted off topic about Armies, Finnace and other bullshit. When they are fighting in the predicaments we place them into, it is their Saber/Force skills that matter and only those.

Prove to me Sidious is superior. Oh wait... Master and Apprentice... I forgot! 🙄

What the hell? No. PALPATINE didn't tell Anakin it was a bad thing. In fact, ANAKIN was the one who told Palpatine that it was a bad move, and Palpatine tried to brush it aside and told Anakin that it wasn't. So much for THAT theory.

WTF, WTF AND WTTTTTTF??!?! Palpatine didn't tell him it was a bad thing AND I NEVER F*CKING SAID THAT, DAMNIT! I SAID THAT ANAKIN WOULD LISTEN TO PALPATINE BECAUSE HE WAS HIS MENTOR! Palpatine INSISTED that Dooku was killed and Anakin tried not to and Palpatine STILL insisted, saying he was a Danger.

Lmao. The galaxy DIDN'T know of his evil. God almighty. He tricked them into thinking Mace and the Jedi attacked him unjustly and that THEY were the evil ones. Only the small few group of Rebels knew the truth. Only during the times of ANH and ESB did the Empire look remotely evil to the eyes of the galaxy. Not during ROTS. So much for that ridiculous theory.

HAHAHA! ROFLMAO! Thanks for bluntly pointing out the obvious! He still could have easily revived the Droid army, and with his STUNNING INTELLIGENCE, made an excuse to do so. Who would have investigated it during ROTS? The crushed Republic or the unborn Alliance? You choose for me!

HE DESTROYED THE ARMY BECAUSE IT WAS NOT HIS! HE WANTED THEM E L I M I N A T E D because they did pose a threat, even if it was little. If it was his, he would have keep his Rich friends, manipulated them into funding most of his projects, including the Death star, not to mention the damned Army. Sidious would have been smart and kept that powerful resource. They were a threat during the entire Prequel Trilogy. Why would you eliminate what was entirely yours instead of utilizing it to help dominate the Galaxy?

You really do need to control that immature temper of yours...

a) I said Sidious was 'indirectly' responsible for the death of Qui-Gon. Maul attacked the Jedi on Sidious's orders, and Maul slayed Jinn. And, again Dooku may have practiced minor Sith ways, but he never - not even at the time of his death - mastered it quite like Sidious did. So why join the organization responsible for the death of the student he loved? Simply because he was tempted and the pros outweighed the cons, to Dooku.

b) No. I'd donate the mantle of 'pure fool' to you. After all, weren't you the guy who said Obi-Wan Kenobi could best Mace Windu? Remarkable truly. We're discussing Dooku being capable of subverting Anakin to the Dark Side, which is where the conversation has landed. So, Dooku's superior saber skills have nothing to do with this particular conversation. If you will go back, you'll notice your comments were severely out of context. And is this how you answer? When I ask a question, you respond with one? You prove to ME that Dooku is superior. Oh wait... the 'age' difference. Sad, considering how some Force users are naturally stronger than others.

c) Palpatine convinced Anakin to kill Dooku, no kidding. But by doing so, Anakin gave into his anger and temptation, and slayed the one man he hated above all others (at the time). Again, tantamount to pushing him to the Dark Side.

d) The group of Senators that mistrusted him and began the seeds of the Rebellion. Again, perhaps you underestimate the intellect of even those who support him. How would it look if the droids conveniantly landed in Palpatine's lap, mysteriously after he ascended to the mantle of Emperor? Palpatine's rule was never absolute, and it never would've been if he tried to 'force' the Senate to obey him. But I suppose the field of politics is an open and shut case to someone of your capability...

e) The Death Star 'was' one of the Confederacy's brain work. And, again. If he ascended to Emperor of the galaxy, he couldn't obviously leave the CIS leadership 'alive'. Didn't he state plainly that Dooku and Grievous needed to be destroyed for the war to end? Do you think the same judgment would not fall to the Council of leaders? He eliminated them because clones were superior to droids, and because of the political situation he was in, he couldn't make any use of them.

We'll continue this tomorrow, Sorgo. You're persistent, I'll give you that. But I hope some rest will cure that unfortunate rage of yours... 🙄

Nighty night.

Originally posted by Escape81
We'll continue this tomorrow, Sorgo. You're persistent, I'll give you that. But I hope some rest will cure that unfortunate rage of yours... 🙄

Nighty night.

Yeah.... The rage sucks.... You can reply, but I wont be here. My final reply in this Forum will happen at Midnight, for I am leaving the SW Forums for GOOD.

I will be around the OTF and Movie forums if you need me.

Escape, you are a Miracle apon these SW Forums. You a great debater, and you're civil when nessicary. But as you know, alot of N00bz surround us and I have had it. They get all mad, call you names, come out with ridiculous shit and, well, you will find out...

Peace! 😆

Sorgo... you're leaving this section???

[QUOTE=5331439]Originally posted by Escape81
You really do need to control that immature temper of yours...

[B]a) I said Sidious was 'indirectly' responsible for the death of Qui-Gon. Maul attacked the Jedi on Sidious's orders, and Maul slayed Jinn. And, again Dooku may have practiced minor Sith ways, but he never - not even at the time of his death - mastered it quite like Sidious did. So why join the organization responsible for the death of the student he loved? Simply because he was tempted and the pros outweighed the cons, to Dooku.

Dooku studied Sith Lore before going under his wing, not to mention the fact that because Sidious was on the Dark Side, he is automatically stronger than Dooku in the Forc..... Wait a Minute! I don't think so. Just because Sidious has a better knowledge of Sith Practitions, SURE AS HELL will not make him stronger in the force... At all.... Not at all....

b) No. I'd donate the mantle of 'pure fool' to you. After all, weren't you the guy who said Obi-Wan Kenobi could best Mace Windu? Remarkable truly. We're discussing Dooku being capable of subverting Anakin to the Dark Side, which is where the conversation has landed. So, Dooku's superior saber skills have nothing to do with this particular conversation. If you will go back, you'll notice your comments were severely out of context. And is this how you answer? When I ask a question, you respond with one? You prove to ME that Dooku is superior. Oh wait... the 'age' difference. Sad, considering how some Force users are naturally stronger than others.

Meh, not exactly, Escape.

The age difference? Well, yes, sort of..... Dooku has at least thirty to twenty years more Experience, and buddy, It counts! And Dooku wasn't on a Cane when he was Sidious' age either, so some are physically stronger than others, and better in the Force.

c) Palpatine convinced Anakin to kill Dooku, no kidding. But by doing so, Anakin gave into his anger and temptation, and slayed the one man he hated above all others (at the time). Again, tantamount to pushing him to the Dark Side.

Kind of like Dooku was Doing by telling him to give in and Anakin begun to get his downed eyebrows of Anger? Dooku basically demanded that Anakin give into his Anger throughout the fight. He got Kenobi out of the way and began to try to woo Anakin into his side. Dooku EVEN had a chance to slice Anakin, but did not take it. Dooku changed his Form, underestimated Anakin and was cut. Anakin wanted Revenge because Dooku took his arm off only a few months prior to them meeting again. Jedi or not, anyone would kill him for taking an Arm off, especially when the man who cut your arm off is Smiling at you during the duel and telling you to give into your Anger. It didn't push him to the Dark side that much at all. It was just a bit for taking something Anakin had away.

d) The group of Senators that mistrusted him and began the seeds of the Rebellion. Again, perhaps you underestimate the intellect of even those who support him. How would it look if the droids conveniantly landed in Palpatine's lap, mysteriously after he ascended to the mantle of Emperor? Palpatine's rule was never absolute, and it never would've been if he tried to 'force' the Senate to obey him. But I suppose the field of politics is an open and shut case to someone of your capability...

Right, because he never forced anyone to obey him in his long campaign of basically owning the Galaxy. He would not have cared, and he could has easily hid the Droids or transported them. I am sure he is smart enough to make up and excuse or quietly eliminate the people who would have investigated the Matter. After all, Sidious is the intelligent manipulation Master, correct?

e) The Death Star 'was' one of the Confederacy's brain work. And, again. If he ascended to Emperor of the galaxy, he couldn't obviously leave the CIS leadership 'alive'. Didn't he state plainly that Dooku and Grievous needed to be destroyed for the war to end? Do you think the same judgment would not fall to the Council of leaders? He eliminated them because clones were superior to droids, and because of the political situation he was in, he couldn't make any use of them.

He could have made a persuasion approach to it, maybe even looking like he had settled it fairly, but he was afraid the CIS may sooner or later take action if he did that, so he killed them. People do not need to die for a War to end. That's just incorrect.

Why wouldn't he leave them alive and become allies later on? Maybe staging a defeat on the CIS' side, pushing them back for a number of years instead of virtually destroying them and then awaking to rip the Galaxy to shreds. Well, Sidious feared Betrayal, that is why. From Dooku and the CIS. He wouldn't fear them if they were weak, but they were not.

Originally posted by Ianus
Sorgo... you're leaving this section???

Forever, yes. Tired of the bullshit, Janus.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f61/t376104.html

Damn. well, I can't say I blame you.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Yeah.... The rage sucks.... You can reply, but I wont be here. My final reply in this Forum will happen at Midnight, for I am leaving the SW Forums for GOOD.

I will be around the OTF and Movie forums if you need me.

Escape, you are a Miracle apon these SW Forums. You a great debater, and you're civil when nessicary. But as you know, alot of N00bz surround us and I have had it. They get all mad, call you names, come out with ridiculous shit and, well, you will find out...

Peace! 😆

Lol you made a wise choice.

Sorgo, I will be impressed if you stay away. It's hard to do, I've tried it. Anyway, I will miss you. (don't forget to send me the link to GR)

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sorgo, I will be impressed if you stay away. It's hard to do, I've tried it. Anyway, I will miss you. (don't forget to send me the link to GR)

Thanks for the support, Glen.

Here, I'll send it to you right now.

Edit: Erm.... How do I send thru AOL? just [email protected]?

Escape, don't bother posting your reply here. PM it to me, because I wont even be reading these forums anymore. I am never going to enter them again. If you wish to continue our debate, please do PM me. Do not reply here because you know I will not reply back. Thank you.

Bye, guys!

2 hours and 45 minutes remain.

Originally posted by Ianus
Eh, I skimmed so forgive me if this is out of place but LucasFilm OWNS and CONTROLS Lucasarts.

Yes. But LucasArts has nothing to do with EU literature. That was what I wanted to say. 😉

@Escape81:

Originally posted by Escape81
c) Nai. As for Dooku revealing Sidious's presence. He tried it once, and the Jedi dismissed it. Dooku was identified as a Sith. Not until Gunray's blunder involving the mechno-chair did they firmly believe Sidious existed. Even if Dooku revealed Sidious's identity, it isn't guarenteed they'd believe him.

Dooku said that the "Senate is under the control of the Dark Lord" and what did the Jedi do ? They started searching for the Dark Lord near Sidious. So they did believe in Dooku's words. What would have happened if Dooku would have said: "Hey. Palpatine is the Sith Lord you're looking for." ?

d) Again. I could argue that Dooku needed Anakin, whereas apparently none of you can argue opposite. Perhaps Nai can, however.

You can argue that Dooku needed Anakin to overthrow Sidious based on what ? Things seen in the film ? Did we see Dooku trying to convince Anakin to join him and kill Sidious ? Obviously not. Would Dooku cut down Sidious while Sidious was sitting in his chair being defenceless ? Doesn't fit his character. Could he have done that based on the fact that Sidious was defenceless to a certain degree (at least he didn't have a lightsaber) ? I think so.

So what do you want to argue here ?

Since yourself compared that fight to Vader vs Luke. You have the same situations here. Dooku was trying to get Anakin to the Dark Side (use his anger and fear), same thing Vader did try with Luke. But Vader knew what would have happened if Luke defeated him (Sidious taking a new apprentice killing his old one) - Dooku didn't. Otherwise the logical thing for Dooku to do would have been telling Anakin that Palpatine was the Dark Lord and try to convince him to attack Palpatine.

e) My mistake. On the Expanded Universe section, it does state that the Republic corporations you mentioned are part of the Techno Union. But do read the print. 'To Some Degree'... That may have been a rather small and pathetic degree. Who's to say?

I've already stated that the Techno Union didn't have complete control over the corporations but the Techno Union is the "political arm" of that corporations. Would the CEO of corporation XYZ risk to lose the political connection his direct concurrence still has ? Very questionable.

f) Lmao. So, let's go out on a limb that they did NOT fight the war to win. You said because of Sidious's needs. If this is the case, then apparently Sidious did control the CIS whereas Dooku did not. If not, well, then apparently the CIS lost legitimately because they were 'weaker'.

What kind of reasoning is that ? The two leading figures of the CIS were Dooku and Grievous. Sidious had direct control over Grievous and - at least from AotC on - he had some great control over Dooku (being the only one able to grant Dooku juristical / political immunity / rehabilitation). So yes...he did control the leading figures of the CIS and therefore he did control the CIS.

The point is that Dooku didn't want to be "evil". In the ROTS commentary Lucas is pointing out that even the "evil" persons think they're doing the right things. Dooku wanted to fight corruption, Sidious wanted to bring peace to the Galaxy, Anakin wanted to save Padme's life. That aren't "evil" motives but all of them were corrupted by their own power - and therefore did "evil" things.

In conclusion. Vader needed Luke. Dooku seemed extremely keen on subverting Anakin. If he truly wanted to stab Sidious in the back, he was apparently too insecure or too WEAK to do it on his own.

It doesn't simply fit Dooku's character (idealist, honourable warrior) to "stab Sidious in the back". This has nothing to do with weakness or insecurity. If Dooku ever would have tried to overthrow Sidious he would have tried to do that in a fair fight - the same way he tried to defeat Yoda.

He didn't think in "Sith" categories (betrayal and so on) like Sidious did - that's the reason why he was shocked when his master betrayed him on Grievous flagship.

Now think about what could have happened if Dooku thought in "Sith" categories, rejected his masters commands, took Grievous out and used the full political and economical power of the CIS against the Republic. Do you think the Republic could have survived that ?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes. But LucasArts has nothing to do with EU literature. That was what I wanted to say. 😉

My bad. Meant to say Lucas books, which is controlled by Lucas. If Lucas approves a book, it is called "Lucasbooks approved."