Originally posted by Quark_666
I've seen all sorts of intellectual, well-written books by Atheists, Catholics and Mormons. Surely the anti-Mormons can scrounge up something good? Some of them do make a living our of it...
Unfortunately, like I posted about earlier, they continue to rehash the same things as if they were new ideals. People seem to be prone to listen to someone speak out against the Mormons a whole lot faster than they will to Mormon and non-Mormon apologetics. I don't know why. 😐
Yes, quite a bit of money is made by "preachers" who travel to churches on Wednesday nights to "help" people understand the "evils" of Mormonism.
Originally posted by ushomefree
The "Walter Martin's Religious Info Net" website provides an indepth representation/analysis of the Mormon faith; when referencing "Anachronisms and Contradictions"--the first sub-section--you become acquainted with the following opening paragraph:"Not only does the Book of Mormon plagiarize heavily from the King James Bible, but it betrays a great lack of information and background on the subject of world history and the history of the Jewish people. The Jaredites apparently enjoyed glass windows in the miraculous barges in which they crossed the ocean; and 'steel' and a 'compass' were known to Nephi despite the fact that neither had been invented, demonstrating once again that Joseph Smith was a poor student of history and of Hebrew customs."
You have just proved my point. These are OLD comments on Mormonism.
"Steel
The steel of the Book of Mormon is surely not modern steel, since such a metal did not exist even in Joseph Smith's day (the Bessemer process upon which modern steel depended until 1968 was not patented until 1855).
Steel is formed from iron in one of two ways:
* quenching (hot, non-molten iron is immersed in water to harden it)
* folding (molten iron is folded and hammered to bind carbon atoms to it)
Any Mesoamerican production likely depended upon the first method, which requires lower temperatures and less sophistication. Laban's "steel sword" is not anachronistic; Middle Eastern smiths were making steel by the tenth century B.C.[8]
"Steel" in Joseph Smith's day also referred to simply "making hard," and not necessarily to the specific metal with which we now associate the term. This is consistent with ancient usage and conflations of metals (e.g. copper and iron among the Egyptians) modern readers now consider to be separate entities.[9] Consider the entry from Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary of American English:
'STEEL, n. [G.]
1. Iron combined with a small portion of carbon; iron refined and hardened, used in making instruments, and particularly useful as the material of edged tools. It is called in chemistry, carburet of iron; but this is more usually the denomination of plumbago.
2. Figuratively, weapons; particularly, offensive weapons, swords, spears and the like...
4. Extreme hardness; as heads or hearts of steel. off-site'"
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_anachronisms:Metals#Steel
And to the very old "compass" comment:
"Alma2 explained why the director the Lord gave to Lehi was called the Liahona:
...I have somewhat to say concerning the thing which our fathers call a ball, or director — or our fathers called it Liahona, which is, being interpreted, a compass; and the Lord prepared it (Alma 37:38).[1]
Believing it was called a compass because it pointed the direction for Lehi to travel is the fault of the modern reader, not the Book of Mormon.
* As a verb, the word "compass" occurs frequently in the King James Version of the Bible[2]; and it generally suggests the idea of surrounding or encircling something.
* In a few cases (e.g. Exodus 27:5; Proverbs 8:27; Isaiah 44:13) it is used as a noun, and suggests something which encircles another thing.
* A third common situation in the KJV is the use of the phrase "to fetch a compass" (e.g., Numbers 34:5; Joshua 15:3; Acts 28:13), which if not recognised as a verbal phrase could be wrongly seen as presenting "compass" as a noun.
In every case, it is clear that, at least in Jacobean England, the word was regularly treated as meaning either a round object, or something which moved in a curved fashion.
Further evidence of the archaic meaning of the word comes from a study of the rather lengthy listing for the word in the Oxford English Dictionary. It includes definition 5.b.:
"Anything circular in shape, e.g. the globe, the horizon; also, a circlet or ring."
To use the word compass as a name for a round or curved object is well attested in both the King James Version of the Bible and the OED. The Book of Mormon refers to the Liahona as "a compass" not because it anachronistically pointed the way to travel, but because it was a perfectly round object."
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_anachronisms:Compass
And to the mention of windows in Ether...which should NEVER have been "talking point" for anti-Mormons. The talking points can sometimes be so rediculous that the points don't even need an apologetic to address them:
"The term window originally referred to an opening through which the wind could enter. It is found 42 times in the Bible, where it does not refer to glass windows as we know them. In one passage (2_Kings 13:17), we read that a window in the palace was opened. So windows sometimes had doors or shutters. The same is true of the window that Noah built into the ark (Gen. 6:16; Gen. 8:6).
It seems likely that Eth. 2:23 means that the barges themselves would break if they had windows or openings built into them. In the next verse, the Lord explains that this is because they would go through extremely turbulent conditions at sea, sometimes being buried beneath the waves. Windows would mean weakening the wooden structure, by creating openings, making it more fragile and thus liable to be "dashed in pieces." If we read only the sentence containing the word "windows" and read it out of context, then the antecedent of "they" would, indeed, be "windows." But it is probable that the antecedent is "vessels," the last word in the preceding sentence.[1] "
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_and_windows
And to the mention of Joseph Smith being "a poor student history and of Hebrew customs"...that is just absurd. As time passes, more and more evidence is brought in favor of Historical accuracy of the BoM.
Read all of these points and all associated articles. It should take you an entire day if you research it properly. You may even run into some arguing points that you have not seen yet and those points are countered as well.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/myturn.shtml
Again, make sure you read the official sources thoroughly. This is just an index for great counter points.
Originally posted by ushomefree
[size=2]Initially, on this thread, I was presenting a disagreement that voiced the fact that Mormons are not Christian. And we disagree, but are you willing to concede--at minimum--that the Mormon faith is "polytheistic"? You have made bold claims about Mormonism--rather, claims about the views in opposition to Mormonism--that I strongly disagree with, i.e., being blind and/or old. I wish not to rain on your parade, but all you have done throughout this thread is attempt to hinder the credibility of Mormon oppositional arguments; you have yet to rebuke the arguments directly.With no further ado, please provide a counter argument relating to the sub-section "Anachronisms and Contradictions," mentioned above. And keep in mind, the chapter on Mormonism, in the book entitled, "The Kingdom of the Cults," is much, much more indepth. It's time for you to refrain from saucy phrase like: outdated, blind, old, ignorant, or (whatever)! It's time to be critical; help me understand.
At minimum, aren't you aware that the Smithsonian--yes, the Smithsonian!--rejected the book of Mormon as "historical"?
Please read, "Anachronisms and Contradictions."
Please research your points before you post them so I don't have to waste my time like I did above.
I am no trying to "help" you understand things or trying to "convert" you and nor will I. That could never happen on both accounts. I can, however, show everyone else all the lies and misunderstandings out there that anti-Mormons like to put on the Mormons. Forgive me for being "saucy" when you refuse to research your old and ignorant points before rehashing them: I am NOT a latter day "saint" as my church would have me be. 😄