With all sincerity and respect that I can muster, I must inform you, that Mormons are not Christian; you are free to believe differently. But that belief couldn't be further from the truth. Again, with all sincerity and respect, you are simply wrong. Mormons are not Christianthey believe in Jesus as a christ thus christians, Mormons are christians they are on the branch Restorationism which is an outspring from the protestant branch.
Originally posted by ushomefree
Dorkerina-With all sincerity and respect that I can muster, I must inform you, that Mormons are not Christian; you are free to believe differently. But that belief couldn't be further from the truth. Again, with all sincerity and respect, you are simply wrong. Mormons are not Christian. I have provided various articles for your reading pleasure and consideration; you will note, that the articles were written in good faith, and in no way, shape, or form do the articles "blaspheme" the Mormon faith. The articles only present the obvious--however undesirable that may be. Please read:
(1) "What is the definition of a cult?"
Sorry Ush, but those articles are all biased propaganda. You can't declare that mormons aren't Christians just because some other christians can't see it.
Starting with the first link, Someone made up their own definition of cult instead of using one of the ones from the dictionary.
From merriam-webster dictionary
cult:
1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
From your point of view mormons match up with #3, but guess what, any other Christian church in the word also does when compared with what came before it. Guess what Ush, you're in a cult too, does that mean you're not christian? No, and mormons are still christian too. As for your other links, here are some rebuttal links:
Originally posted by docb77
Sorry Ush, but those articles are all biased propaganda. You can't declare that mormons aren't Christians just because some other christians can't see it.Starting with the first link, Someone made up their own definition of cult instead of using one of the ones from the dictionary.
From merriam-webster dictionary
cult:
1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotionFrom your point of view mormons match up with #3, but guess what, any other Christian church in the word also does when compared with what came before it. Guess what Ush, you're in a cult too, does that mean you're not christian? No, and mormons are still christian too. As for your other links, here are some rebuttal links:
Thank you!
Originally posted by ushomefree
Dorkerina-With all sincerity and respect that I can muster, I must inform you, that Mormons are not Christian; you are free to believe differently. But that belief couldn't be further from the truth. Again, with all sincerity and respect, you are simply wrong. Mormons are not Christian. I have provided various articles for your reading pleasure and consideration; you will note, that the articles were written in good faith, and in no way, shape, or form do the articles "blaspheme" the Mormon faith. The articles only present the obvious--however undesirable that may be. Please read:
(1) "What is the definition of a cult?"
I appreciate the concern those sites express for my soul.
This is from the Book of Mormon:
And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
Originally posted by ushomefree
Dorkerina-With all sincerity and respect that I can muster, I must inform you, that Mormons are not Christian; you are free to believe differently. But that belief couldn't be further from the truth. Again, with all sincerity and respect, you are simply wrong. Mormons are not Christian. I have provided various articles for your reading pleasure and consideration; you will note, that the articles were written in good faith, and in no way, shape, or form do the articles "blaspheme" the Mormon faith. The articles only present the obvious--however undesirable that may be. Please read:
(1) "What is the definition of a cult?"
To say that Mormons are not Christian leads to the question of what is a Mormon then? Are they Buddhist? Are they Islamic? Are they Native American? Are they Hindu? If you say that they are a cult, then I have to remind you that Christians, 2000 years ago, where a cult. Mormons have been established for over a hundred years. I think that qualifies them as a religion and not a cult. What type of religion? Well, they follow the teachings of Jesus, therefore they are Christian.
In Buddhism, there are a lot of different schools, and they do not always agree with each other. But to say that Zen, or Pure Land are not Buddhists because they don't believe like Nichiren Buddhists would be arrogant, and presumptuous. The same is true with people calling Mormons not Christian.
Shakyamunison-
Mormonism is "polytheistic" to its core; and Mormons follow the teachings of Joseph Smith. The book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price are not illusions, and they contain theology that contradict and ignore the central teachings of Jesus the Christ. Period. It's impossible to be a Mormon and Christian simultaneously; the teachings of both religions are entirely different (fundamentally). You are one or the other. Squares are not circles!
Originally posted by ushomefree
Shakyamunison-Mormonism is "polytheistic" to its core; and Mormons follow the teachings of Joseph Smith. The book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price are not illusions, and they contain theology that contradict and ignore the central teachings of Jesus the Christ. Period. It's impossible to be a Mormon and Christian simultaneously; the teachings of both religions are entirely different (fundamentally). You are one or the other. Squares are not circles!
OK, they are not the same kind of Christian that you are, but your beliefs are just as strange to me as their religion is to you. So, if I had to choose witch is a true Christian, I would have to say that it does not matter. A good tree will bare good fruit, and a bad tree will bare bad fruit. What people believe is not as important as how they live their lives.
Originally posted by ushomefree
Shakyamunison-Mormonism is "polytheistic" to its core; and Mormons follow the teachings of Joseph Smith.
So that means that you are not aware that a bunch of men of power, some religious some not, decided on the concept of Trinity? And you also are not aware that one of the primary reasons of deciding on this trinity concept was to distinguish the "new" religion away from concurrent polytheistic religions of the day? (Establishing one god one religion.) This means you are also not aware that this was part of governing uniformity and control.
Originally posted by ushomefree
The book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price are not illusions, and they contain theology that contradict and ignore the central teachings of Jesus the Christ. Period.
Why don't you give us specific examples. And don't post a link from another website; that can easily be rebutted from a post with another website link.
Originally posted by ushomefree
It's impossible to be a Mormon and Christian simultaneously; the teachings of both religions are entirely different (fundamentally). You are one or the other. Squares are not circles!
If you fail to see the error in that logic, then you should not discuss these things. It has already been explained to you why that is wrong. It has been explained what you type of logic/thinking is wrong countless times over from Mormons and non-Mormons alike. To continue down that path would be to continue is blatant ignorance. Ignorance is usually the seed of prejudice, hate, and persecution.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Case in point, I was very good at being a missionary. Before my mission, I studied anti-mormon literature/doctrines up and down and I could often recite those ideals to people as they were spewing them out. I have ALMOST read, heard, and seen it all when it comes to anti-mormonism.
I've been looking for some good books that actually delve into the details of anti-Mormonism (something more intellectual and more convincing then Ed Decker). Any suggestions?
Originally posted by Quark_666
I appreciate the concern those sites express for my soul.This is from the Book of Mormon:
And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
im going to download the book of mormon onto my iphone(yes i can do that 😛) and when im bored on the bus ill read all the propaganda joseph smith learned by looking into a hat(can you spot the southpark references yet people?)
Originally posted by dadudemon
So that means that you are not aware that a bunch of men of power, some religious some not, decided on the concept of Trinity? And you also are not aware that one of the primary reasons of deciding on this trinity concept was to distinguish the "new" religion away from concurrent polytheistic religions of the day? (Establishing one god one religion.) This means you are also not aware that this was part of governing uniformity and control.
The concept of a triune God--the Trinity--is based entirely on biblical doctrine, having absolutely nothing to do with persons and political/religious bodies bent on deception (and control).
Biblical basis for the Trinity: Five Propositions
1. There is one, and only one, God.
Deut. 4:35, 39; 6:4; 32:39; 2 Sam 7:22; Ps. 86: 10; Isa. 43:10; 44: 6-8; 46:9; John 5:44; 17:3; Rom. 3:29-30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6; 1 Thess. 1:9; 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; 1 John 5:20-21; Jude 25.
2. The Person of the Father is God.
John 6:27; EPh. 4:6; Col. 1:2-3; 2 Pet. 1:17.
3. The Person of the Son is God.
John 1:1; 5:17; 8:58; 10:30; 20:28; Phil. 2:6; Col. 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1.
4. The Person of the Holy Spirit is God.
Gen. 1:2; John 14:26; Acts 5:3-4; 13:2, 4; 28:25; Rom. 8:11; Eph. 4:30.
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct (and simultaneously distinguishable Persons).
Matt. 28:19; Luke 3:22; John 15:26; 16:13-15; 2 Cor. 13:14.
These biblical propositions "logically" imply that since there is only one God, and the three distinct persons are all called God, then the three persons must be the one God--of the same essence!
Originally posted by dadudemon
Why don't you give us specific examples. And don't post a link from another website; that can easily be rebutted from a post with another website link.
Unfortunately, if you are unable to read the articles I provided and understand the vast difference between Mormonism and Christianity, then we are at a lose; providing further examples is simply not warranted, and anyone with fair mind would concede that point. The articles alone suffice!
Originally posted by dadudemon
If you fail to see the error in that logic, then you should not discuss these things. It has already been explained to you why that is wrong. It has been explained what you type of logic/thinking is wrong countless times over from Mormons and non-Mormons alike. To continue down that path would be to continue is blatant ignorance. Ignorance is usually the seed of prejudice, hate, and persecution.
Irrelevant, baseless rhetoric. This is not the best of fashions to voice your opinion(s).
Originally posted by ushomefree
The concept of a triune God--the Trinity--is based entirely on biblical doctrine, having absolutely nothing to do with persons and political/religious bodies bent on deception (and control).[b]Biblical basis for the Trinity: Five Propositions
1. There is one, and only one, God.
Deut. 4:35, 39; 6:4; 32:39; 2 Sam 7:22; Ps. 86: 10; Isa. 43:10; 44: 6-8; 46:9; John 5:44; 17:3; Rom. 3:29-30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6; 1 Thess. 1:9; 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; 1 John 5:20-21; Jude 25.
2. The Person of the Father is God.
John 6:27; EPh. 4:6; Col. 1:2-3; 2 Pet. 1:17.
3. The Person of the Son is God.
John 1:1; 5:17; 8:58; 10:30; 20:28; Phil. 2:6; Col. 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1.
4. The Person of the Holy Spirit is God.
Gen. 1:2; John 14:26; Acts 5:3-4; 13:2, 4; 28:25; Rom. 8:11; Eph. 4:30.
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct (and simultaneously distinguishable Persons).
Matt. 28:19; Luke 3:22; John 15:26; 16:13-15; 2 Cor. 13:14.
These biblical propositions "logically" imply that since there is only one God, and the three distinct persons are all called God, then the three persons must be the one God--of the same essence!
Unfortunately, if you are unable to read the articles I provided and understand the vast difference between Mormonism and Christianity, then we are at a lose; providing further examples is simply not warranted, and anyone with fair mind would concede that point. The articles alone suffice!
Irrelevant, baseless rhetoric. This is not the best of fashions to voice your opinion(s). [/B]
if you cant own up to the fact that the church is in control and that when old bureacrats rn a religion they do whatever they can to get money, which is collected through donations. now lets ee if u can stick with a-b-c logic here. old people like money. more people join religion=more money. holy trinity = appealing to masses so inputted into holy doctrine. if you dont accept that the catholic church doctored the original bible you are a fool.
Originally posted by chickenlover98
if you cant own up to the fact that the church is in control and that when old bureacrats rn a religion they do whatever they can to get money, which is collected through donations. now lets ee if u can stick with a-b-c logic here. old people like money. more people join religion=more money. holy trinity = appealing to masses so inputted into holy doctrine. if you dont accept that the catholic church doctored the original bible you are a fool.
First and foremost, the Bible has not been "edited" or "doctored" to support a philosophy/worldview; the Dead Sea scrolls, for one--discovered in the mid 19th century--soundly support this fact. For further direct (and indirect) archaeological evidence, consider the thread, "The Bible: Archaelogical Finds." In addition, consider the following below:
Number of Original Language Manuscripts
1. New Testament: 5600+
2. Homer's Illiad: 643
3. Plato Tetralogies: 49
4. Aristotle (any one work): 7
Span of Years Between Composition and Oldest Copy
1. New Testament: 50 MAX
2. Homer's Illiad: 500
3. Plato Tetralogies: 1300
4. Aristotle (any one work): 1400
Having 5600+ original language manuscripts allows biblical accuracy verification--through cross-checks; today's Bible is verified to a textual accuracy of 99.5 percent. Some biblical copies are early enough to show eyewitnesses' confirmation.
And lastly, as prevously stated, the concept of a triune God--the Trinity--is based on biblical Scripture; for more information, please consider, "The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity: An Outline Study."
Without a doubt, many have profited from religion, and Christianity is no different; but that has absolutely nothing to do with the accuracy of biblical Scripture (and theology therein).
Unfortunately, if you are unable to read the articles I provided and understand the vast difference between Mormonism and Christianity,the articles you provided is biased propaganda from a group that should concentrate more on themselves than finding a scapegoat. What they are doing is a very simmilare doctrine as the Romans had toward christians, as several groups have done toward the Jews up through the centuries. They point their finger toward a group that view things differently. The Inquisition ended centuries ago its time that this actually dawned for certain groups/denomination within christendom.
Originally posted by ushomefree
First and foremost, the Bible has not been "edited" or "doctored" to support a philosophy/worldview; the Dead Sea scrolls, for one--discovered in the mid 19th century--soundly support this fact. For further direct (and indirect) archaeological evidence, consider the thread, "The Bible: Archaelogical Finds." In addition, consider the following below:Number of Original Language Manuscripts
1. New Testament: 5600+
2. Homer's Illiad: 643
3. Plato Tetralogies: 49
4. Aristotle (any one work): 7
Span of Years Between Composition and Oldest Copy
1. New Testament: 50 MAX
2. Homer's Illiad: 500
3. Plato Tetralogies: 1300
4. Aristotle (any one work): 1400
Having 5600+ original language manuscripts allows biblical accuracy verification--through cross-checks; today's Bible is verified to a textual accuracy of 99.5 percent. Some biblical copies are early enough to show eyewitnesses' confirmation.
And lastly, as prevously stated, the concept of a triune God--the Trinity--is based on biblical Scripture; for more information, please consider, "The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity: An Outline Study."
Without a doubt, many have profited from religion, and Christianity is no different; but that has absolutely nothing to do with the accuracy of biblical Scripture (and theology therein).
Of course you're leaving out a very important point or two. 1- The translators of the works mentioned beside the bible had very little motive to change anything. 2- While as a whole the many texts of the various books of the bible are in remarkable agreement, there are differences between them. They also reference books that we either don't have or that we don't have complete copies.
The bible is remarkably accurate, but not perfectly so.
As far as your earlier "logic" goes. It only works if you accept that God in the verses you mentioned was speaking in absolutes. If on the other hand he was speaking in specifics or using artistic language... ie. For you there is no other God, or I am the only God that matters. Well, that logic you used earlier just doesn't work then.
Let me point you to another section of the Bible - Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane. Jesus prayed that the apostles and his disciples could be one even as he and the father were one. So using your logic, Peter, James, John, and the rest must have all been the same person! Ridiculous.