Palpatine Vs. Mace - Lucas closes the debate for good!

ok, Ush, I never said anything about the saber fight. I said that he was faking the whole thing.

did he lose the saber duel? possibly, but what GL says is that as soon as he loses his saber mace could have just threw mace out the window with little effort. it was all a ploy.

palpatine was NEVER in any danger he could have just force lightninged windu out the windu had anakin not showed up.

did he lose the saber fight fair and square? im inclined to believe he just underestimated mace and DID lose, but had he fought for his life (like he did against yoda) he would have been able to beat mace in a duel.

also he would have already known anakin was going to show up, so weather he lost the duel on purpose is still up for debate.

whats not up for debate is that palpatine could have wasted mace with the force at any point he wanted too.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
ok, Ush, I never said anything about the saber fight. I said that he was faking the whole thing.

did he lose the saber duel? possibly, but what GL says is that as soon as he loses his saber mace could have just threw mace out the window with little effort. it was all a ploy.

palpatine was NEVER in any danger he could have just force lightninged windu out the windu had anakin not showed up.

did he lose the saber fight fair and square? im inclined to believe he just underestimated mace and DID lose, but had he fought for his life (like he did against yoda) he would have been able to beat mace in a duel.

also he would have already known anakin was going to show up, so weather he lost the duel on purpose is still up for debate.

whats not up for debate is that palpatine could have wasted mace with the force at any point he wanted too.

so he was faking when the lightning melted him? its an idle question not a challenge of your entire post, i really don't feel like going there again.

Originally posted by truejedi
so he was faking when the lightning melted him? its an idle question not a challenge of your entire post, i really don't feel like going there again.

.....

Palpatine: I was attacked! Jedi are dangerous!
Senators: Your proof?
Palpatine: Well uh..uh..well...you see..uh...

He needed the lightning to melt his face to use it as evidence to convince the senators that Jedi's were taking over.

Also, I believe Sidious Faked It. If Anakin showed up seeing Sidious kicking Mace's ass, he would think Sidious is Evil. However he only saw Mace about to kill Sidious, Sidious NEEDED that to happen so Anakin will think that Jedi's are evil.

Sidious is a genius. The plan with killing all Jedi, Turning Anakin into Darth Vader, creating the empire, and the fake fight with mace Windu was one of them.

this topic will never settle...
first i must say i am both Mace and Sidious' fans...

1. Sidious forsee Anakin will come
Possible, but why no one consider this:
Sidious could forsee he lose to Mace fairly and Anakin would
come and save him????
and why Sidious could not forsee his death? why cant he forsee
Yoda would fall???? etc etc

forseeing is not reliable in debate....

2. Sidious smile
this does NOT imply forseeing / faking:
Anakin come AFTER the Jedi Masters storm in =
Mace ordered Ani to stay back but he REFUSED,
I.E. Anakin actually had chosen his destiny ALREADY
Sidious is a politican, he knew how people think and act,
he knew ani would save him. but not implying he faked

Originally posted by truejedi
so he was faking when the lightning melted him? its an idle question not a challenge of your entire post, i really don't feel like going there again.

sorry, GL says he was faking it....its a closed case...

GL said he was faking weak after the first round of Force Lightning.

GL & SLJ also said Mace is always overpowering / winning
the duel until Anakin stepped in and do wht he did do turn
the tide....

yes exactly, so he was faking being weak. he wasent weak, he could have at any time killed mace with his lightning, but didnt because he already knew anakin was coming etc. etc.

Originally posted by kevinmhk
GL said he was faking weak after the first round of Force Lightning.

GL & SLJ also said Mace is always overpowering / winning
the duel until Anakin stepped in and do wht he did do turn
the tide....

this isn't an argument. GL says he was faking, so he was faking.

pretty sad that people try to now determine in what context palpatine WAS faking...

anything to keep arguing, even though what actually happened has been stated by the creator of the whole story.

Originally posted by truejedi
Your right. you have been right all along! I know when i'm beaten. That was so clever of Sidious to trick Mace into kicking that lightsaber out of his hand. He realized that if he held onto it much longer he was going to accidently stab Mace before he was ready. That sucker windu, falling for an old trick like that...
sorry if i'm being sarcastic, but all we have to look at is the movie, and in the movie, NOWHERE does it say that Palpatine faked losing.
Of course Sidous smiled, anakin was there to save him from being KILLED by the guy who beat him.
If you want to use the book as an example to anything, it makes it really clear that the empourer lost, and though it provides commentary on everything else, and nitty gritty details, it doesn't once mention sidious's great deception of mace. Plus, if you are going to use the book... you KNOW whats in there, and how i'm not even allowed to say the word VAPAAD without being ridiculed. Thats why you have to leave the book out of it, you can't just accept part of it.

Like talking to a brick wall.
Did you notice how smiling and friendly Palpatine was when Mace and the other three Jedi came to arrest him, even though he knew that's exactly why they entered the room? Anakin told him he was turning him in, but Palpatine WASN'T worried. He knew he had Anakin on the line, and was slowly reeling him in. He was coming to make sure Palpatine wouldn't be killed, he could feel it; it was a game he played with Mace, an unwitting pawn, until Anakin arrived; he likely could feel how far away he was, until he allowed Mace to disarm him and appear to be at his mercy.
Too big a risk Palpatine was taking, you think? This man is a master manipulator, and has risked BIG for decades. Cloaking his Sith side right in full view of the Jedi Council for decades, manipulating events for inter-galactic civil war, to gain power. He wouldn't have revealed himself to Anakin at all unless he felt he had him, ready to turn with the right push. Goading him into attacking his master, to save what SEEMED to be a helpless man; Anakin thinking he's upholding the Jedi code but in that instant it's about his selfish desires he's killing for - Palpatine had forseen this; it was planned.

I'm back! lol well I see ya'll are going to continue and it is going to be one of the biggest mysteries in Star Wars ever

I think Palpatine was faking. He let Mace win the duel because he knew Anakin was coming and he needed to appear threatened by Mace so that Anakin would think that Mace was threatening a helpless opponent. Mission accomplished there; Anakin walked in at the right moment just as Palpatine knew he would. Palpatine's ability to foresee events makes him overconfident (as in ROTJ).

Now, about the lightning. What I think transpired was this. Palpatine had Anakin see what he wanted him to see, so he figured he'd finish Mace off. But it didn't work, Mace was deflecting it back onto Palpatine. He had to stop the lightning attack or he would have died; that he did not count on. He faked weakness even though he had much more power to throw at Mace, but he knew if he did he was toast (no pun intended).

Palpatine needed to appear helpless in order to move Anakin into action. Perfect opportunity here after the lightning attack. Mace is about to kill Palpatine, who supposedly has no strength left, and Anakin chops his hand off. Palpatine thinks at this moment, "I've got him!" and finishes Mace off like he intended to do before except this time Mace can't block it and is thrown out the window.

So I guess what I want to say is that the only thing Palpatine hadn't counted on was his Sith lightning not working on Mace. Everything else was under his control.

I got one question, how long did it take you to write that.

A couple of minutes. Why?

it was very long just wondering lol

Originally posted by ArthasKnight
I think Palpatine was faking. He let Mace win the duel because he knew Anakin was coming and he needed to appear threatened by Mace so that Anakin would think that Mace was threatening a helpless opponent. Mission accomplished there; Anakin walked in at the right moment just as Palpatine knew he would. Palpatine's ability to foresee events makes him overconfident (as in ROTJ).

Now, about the lightning. What I think transpired was this. Palpatine had Anakin see what he wanted him to see, so he figured he'd finish Mace off. But it didn't work, Mace was deflecting it back onto Palpatine. He had to stop the lightning attack or he would have died; that he did not count on. He faked weakness even though he had much more power to throw at Mace, but he knew if he did he was toast (no pun intended).

Palpatine needed to appear helpless in order to move Anakin into action. Perfect opportunity here after the lightning attack. Mace is about to kill Palpatine, who supposedly has no strength left, and Anakin chops his hand off. Palpatine thinks at this moment, "I've got him!" and finishes Mace off like he intended to do before except this time Mace can't block it and is thrown out the window.

So I guess what I want to say is that the only thing Palpatine hadn't counted on was his Sith lightning not working on Mace. Everything else was under his control.

Re: Lightning deflected, melting his face? Maybe.
I still think it was his true appearence, being revealed through the lightning. See how his teeth were more old and rotten looking afterwards?
Lucas hasn't given the definitive answer on this - yet. Keep this going, he'll eventually say something.

The force lightning was needed to deform his face so he can convince the Senates that the Jedi were evil and were taking over. Otherwise, he would have no evidence that Jedi attacked.

IMHO Palpatine faked the whole thing (exept maybe losing his saber). Why? Because not only did he want to force Anakin's hand, but he had to crumple his own face as proof of the Jedi assasination attempt. Thus legitimising Order 66.

That is why he so stupidly unleashed the Sith lighting, knowing fully well it can be easily deflected. Heck his own apprentice Dooku got his lighting absorbed by Kenobi's saber and deflected by Yoda's bare hands on Geonosis. Shld'nt Palpy know better?

With the Sith lightning he managed to achieve two objectives. Make himself appear weak in Anakin's eyes and convince Mace, at that very moment, that he is "too dangerous to be kept alive". Thus changing Mace's mission from arrest to assasination. Thus the chop from Anakin.

So whether or not the ugly old frogy face is the real face, Palpy sets the whole scenario up to ensure that the majority of the Senate believes in his side of the story. Palpy FORESAW that things had to transpire in THIS FASHION and that's why things turned out THIS WAY

Originally posted by Neo_Version 7
Dude, Ewan and Samuel weren't THAT bad.

BTW, Mace rocks.

Well, when Sam said "You have lost" that was pretty bad acting. I see you havent defended Hayden 😉