Originally posted by stormfront13
actually, i have never read that issue, so no it's not the one I'm refering to. but it's another example of where she travels mach speeds. now how many examples is that? another is in extreme wher she travels from texas to rogues california house in a quikck trip with remy, it never specifies how long the trip was, it only states quick. yews, it's not a direct example, but it's still something. also in the same isue, storm travels from california to tokyo in a few hours.
Uh...you do know how close Texas and California are don't you?
If people can make it a short drive going at 70 mphs...
Or are you just going ot assume that Rogue's house and Storm are on the opposite sides of the states?
i fully agree that storm can bend the laws of nature, considering that's one of the most basic definitions of her power. not once have i argued otherwise. but to "bend the laws of nature" is not the same as "breaking the laws of nature," or "defying physics."
let me list some things we know about wind. when moving at speeds en masse, aka a gust of wind, it can affect objects as would a semi-solid concussive burst. when moving at speeds en masse, and meeting a slower moving pocket of air, it slows down and billows into a "cloud" of omnidirectional mini-currents. even small clouds like these, such as the breath blown from a person's mouth, can feel as if they possess some semi-solid density. now, amplify that to the level necessary to propel over a hundred pounds at speeds exceeding sound itself. the "gust of wind" she's riding on would have to stretch in front of her, or she'd be throwing herself like a cannonball through a much slower medium, which would have detrimental affects on her body. so, we assume she protects herself, stretching the currents just past her while subtly manipulating a pocket of air around herself in order to breathe and to escape harm. plausible in theory, if not in action.
so, there's a super-sonic current of wind zipping through the atmosphere, on which storm is riding and is of little consequence any longer. this current, like all others, will buffer into much, much slower pockets of air moving in various directions. this would cause a massive slowing of the air, and form something of an ever-growing barrier of turmoil and turbulence just in front of the current. now, in order to protect herself from said barrier, hitting which would now be the equivalent of throwing an egg at a brick wall, storm either needs to continuously draw air from around her to maintain the "front" of the current, or wrap her head around the entire barrier and dispell it before it causes her harm.
imagine doing that on a transatlantic trip, stretching over a thousand miles. the strain of holding herself aloft, protecting herself from the wind-relating violence she's accidentally creating, and traversing that distance at supersonic speed is implausible, if not impossible. it would take a constant effort to redirect violent air currents in an area that could grow as large as a cubic mile, not to mention the secondary effort of keeping herself moving at supersonic speeds riding wind alone, and the tertiary effort of protecting her environment from the lashing out of the violent system she's manifesting BY DEFYING PHYSICS. and you say she can even add on the ability to scan hundreds of miles of air currents around her while doing it? have you any idea of the implications you've been making?
i don't doubt storm can fly herself from new york to england, as its happened and seems well within her limits of skill and endurance. i merely doubt her ability to deal with the sheer chaos attempting it at mach speeds would cause; and atop that, i doubt her ability to summon winds that could travel at mach speeds, thus defying nature and physics entirely.
and bishop was standing just fine on his own, despite storm's wind/sandstorm. and you cannot attribute that to his powers, and he explicitly states that legion is stopping them from functioning properly. again, absolutely no proof bobby need hide from ororo's winds.
Originally posted by stormfront13It's not an example. Do you not get that? Neither is the New Orleans to New York. So far you have zero examples because they've been discredited unless you think she can travel at 12,000 mph or 5,600 mph - which I'm guessing you do - which is just plain foolishness, or you think Xavier is a bastard who won't let her inside his plane.
actually, i have never read that issue, so no it's not the one I'm refering to. but it's another example of where she travels mach speeds. now how many examples is that?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's not an example. Do you not get that? Neither is the New Orleans to New York. So far you have zero examples because they've been discredited unless you think she can travel at 12,000 mph or 5,600 mph - which I'm guessing you do - which is just plain foolishness, or you think Xavier is a bastard who won't let her inside his plane.
if the issue number is given, and it happened in the comics, then it's an example. your just ignoring the facts because you think that she shouldn't be able to do what she does. namor shouldn't be able to fly fast if all he has is little wings, but you are easily able to accept his going fast, but when someone else does it you completley ignore it even when the proof is right in front of you.
Wow, doth mine eyes deceive me or did stormfront13 of all people just covertly try to call me bias. Will wonders never cease. FYI I actually like Storm. I dislike B.S. Comics (i.e. your) Storm (and her made up powers and/or feats that never were).
She is never shown flying at speed over those distances. She is never even shown flying those distances at all. There are no references to speed or time. There are no facts to ascertain. I'm basing the disregarding of these incidents upon approximations of the speed required to travel the distance. These approximations show the instances - as anyone having even the slightest semblance of objectivity can deduce - to be bullshit. So, yes, I disregard bullshit.
The Namor incidents show that he has fast aerial capability. How fast isn't entirely conclusive but they suggest speeds in the several hundred mph as a usual. If anyone tried to suggest to me that he could fly at Mach 15, I'd also call it bullshit.
From what you've posted I surmise you actually think she can fly Mach 15 or Mach 8? In which case my pointlessness meter just reached maximum.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wow, doth mine eyes deceive me or did stormfront13 of all people just covertly try to call me bias. Will wonders never cease. FYI I actually like Storm. I dislike B.S. Comics (i.e. your) Storm (and her made up powers and/or feats that never were).She is never shown flying at speed over those distances. She is never even shown flying those distances at all. There are no references to speed or time. There are no facts to ascertain. I'm basing the disregarding of these incidents upon approximations of the speed required to travel the distance. These approximations show the instances - as anyone having even the slightest semblance of objectivity can deduce - to be bullshit. So, yes, I disregard bullshit.
The Namor incidents show that he has fast aerial capability. How fast isn't entirely conclusive but they suggest speeds in the several hundred mph as a usual. If anyone tried to suggest to me that he could fly at Mach 15, I'd also call it bullshit.
From what you've posted I surmise you actually think she can fly Mach 15 or Mach 8? In which case my pointlessness meter just reached maximum.
alrighty, first i never called you biased. second, i have never "made up" powers, and take everything i know about storm from the comics. everythiung i have said about her has actually happened in the comics. if you have issues with this, then talk to the writers, and don't complain to me. never shown? we have provided more than one example of her going at mach speeds. darkcrawler has been trying to prove to everyone that namor can fly well beyiond mach speeds, but you never to seem to care about what he does, but when storm actually does go these speeds, you disagree, which makes no sence.
You accused me of a double standard. A bias. You did so again.
You have a tendency to misrepresent incidents albeit probably unintentionally. Upon further investigation several things you've said as powers either never happened or were exaggerations.
Examples off the top of my head:
Storm shut down Shinobi Shaw's electrical activity in his nervous system.
Which became: Storm threatened to shut down Shaw's nervous system.
Which when I finally recalled the issue became: Storm threatened to electrocute Shinobi Shaw.
Storm fired sun lasers.
Which upon further inquiry became: Storm said she could fire sun lasers but never did it.
Storm can fly up into the upper atmosphere and channel the energy of stars. She once did so with billions of stars.
Actual event: Millions of stars. She was only able to do so at that particular location because she was at a particular locale where there was a high density of stars. If I recall it even states she would be unable to do so anywhere else. Most importantly you neglect to mention the event kills her body.
Storm can manipulate electrical energy to control machinery.
Actual event: Storm attempts to override a power block in a machine, she fails in doing so and passes out. Moira MacTaggert says something along the lines of her powers "just don't work that way."
Again, if you actually think she can fly at Mach 15... I'm out of this seeing it's futile.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You accused me of a double standard. A bias. You did so again.You have a tendency to misrepresent incidents albeit probably unintentionally. Upon further investigation several things you've said as powers either never happened or were exaggerations.
Examples off the top of my head:
Storm shut down Shinobi Shaw's electrical activity in his nervous system.
Which became: Storm threatened to shut down Shaw's nervous system.
Which when I finally recalled the issue became: Storm threatened to electrocute Shinobi Shaw.Storm fired sun lasers.
Which upon further inquiry became: Storm said she could fire sun lasers but never did it.Storm can fly up into the upper atmosphere and channel the energy of stars. She once did so with billions of stars.
Actual event: Millions of stars. She was only able to do so at that particular location because she was at a particular locale where there was a high density of stars. If I recall it even states she would be unable to do so anywhere else. Most importantly you neglect to mention the event kills her body.Storm can manipulate electrical energy to control machinery.
Actual event: Storm attempts to override a power block in a machine, she fails in doing so and passes out. Moira MacTaggert says something along the lines of her powers "just don't work that way."Again, if you actually think she can fly at Mach 15... I'm out of this seeing it's futile.
all of the things up there were used in a debate in comixfan. i can give you a link. everyone uses those as storm feats, i didn't read the issues of those, but when everyone accepted those as what storm has done, i wrongfully assumed that they were correct without checking the issues. i figured if everyone agreed that storm did them, then they were true.
Uncanny X-men 283-Storm sheilded her teammates from a falling mountain and energy blasts with a pressure dome. She also flew her teammates inside a air bubble.
X-treme X-men#14(I think)-It is revealed that Storm can read the electric impulses in a machines and humans and that it gives her a edge in any fight.
Uncanny X-men#99-Storm destroyed a Sentinel using "solar" winds.
X-men Unlimited#7-This is the issue where Storm used a electric sheild to block off Candra's telekinetic attacks.
Uncanny X-men#165-Storm summons the energy of a billions of stars.
Uncanny X-men#151-It is revealed here that Storm views the weather not as just clouds,wind,lighting, and etc. but instead as patterns of energy and also that Storm is immune to hot and cold.
Gambit#3 (the third series)-She tapped into a computer system on Muir Island.
In a X-men special issue in 1991. Storm tapped into the electro-magnetic spectrum and generated an entire force field over the entire earth to sheild it from gamma rays.
X-men Annual#3-Storm generated her own electro-magnetic spectrum.
Storm has done so many amazing stunts with her power that I can not even list them all.
She has controlled the weather across half the globe,she is completely attuned to life and her enviorment,she has summoned the power of an entire storm in a lighting bolt, she can summon lighting hotter than the surface of the sun,she can suck the air out someone's lung,freeze someone instantly and the moisture in the air.
^^those were the feats used, in which everyone agreed were true, and actually happened. i figured if everyone said they were true, and all agreed that they happened, then they were true.
just like all other mutants storm is immune to all the adverse effects of her powers anyway so wind currents and chaos created by high wind speeds wont affect her, she wont pass out, she wont be affteced by g forces, and doesnt face wind resistance.... like the way she ionized air molecules , by zapping herself with a bolt of lightining to make a new outfit when she and gambit was "doing it" in a river in Xtreme xmen when they got walked in on in the woods.
so it is always important to rememeber that the laws of comtemporary science and nature doesnt apply to comics, so dont judge from that POV. also what about all the times storm regualry leviates herself just by doing it. if it were left up to real world science it would require gale force winds to keep her afloat in the frist place right?.....yet it doesnt require that for her to do it. plus mach speeds is totally achieveable bcuz Rogue once flew from the mansion to muir island with wolverine and bishop in tow by going suborbital, and she got there in about 30 minutes. so if storm were to go up in the upper atmospehere where there is less wind resistance, especially since we know that she can surround herself with a protective bubble of sorts all those speeds "could" be possible, but it all boils down to,why would she need to do that anyway when she has a comfy jet to fly around in? so at max i personally would put her at about mach 1, mach 2 if you wanna push it
wind cannot move at those high speeds without losing direction and becoming disorganized chaos. in fact, wind cannot hit those speeds at all, but upon approach, it dissolves as i just mentioned. rogue, whose self-propelled flight has absolutely nothing to do with wind, can fly as fast as she wants for all i care. storm needs wind to fly, and what wind can't do, storm can't do. also, considering wind is just kinetic air molecules, to be "resistant to the adverse affects of her powers" would entail storm is immune to levels of kinetic impact. she needs to use her powers to immunize herself from them, it's not just a part of the package.
if contemporary science didn't apply in comics, everyone would float eternally in no direction at all (disproven,) electromagnetics wouldn't apply in any way (disproven,) and nuclear energy and radiation would be a non-factor (disproven.) hell, hyperstorm by himself disproves this theory, considering he controls all fundamental aspects of the universe. and for there to be no realistic science in a world where humans and mutants and aliens are as advanced as within the comics could only be explained by there being no laws with which the universe is governed. and that's been disproven.
and stormfront, your arguments now lack any credibility. you just admitted to not checking facts about your favorite character, you just admitted to throwing out unconfirmed reports about power plays storm has made as fact, despite them being turned around and disproven. you're just NOW beginning to post issue numbers, while DC spent an entire thread posting scans of actual feats, and you're still citing events that x has already disproven as if they were fact. it's poor debate technique to not know your material, and even worse to outright LIE. i'm pretty sure everyone involved can safely say the debate's over.
Originally posted by DisappearSlothful induction maybe?
wind cannot move at those high speeds without losing direction and becoming disorganized chaos. in fact, wind cannot hit those speeds at all, but upon approach, it dissolves as i just mentioned. rogue, whose self-propelled flight has absolutely nothing to do with wind, can fly as fast as she wants for all i care. storm needs wind to fly, and what wind can't do, storm can't do. also, considering wind is just kinetic air molecules, to be "resistant to the adverse affects of her powers" would entail storm is immune to levels of kinetic impact. she needs to use her powers to immunize herself from them, it's not just a part of the package.if contemporary science didn't apply in comics, everyone would float eternally in no direction at all (disproven,) electromagnetics wouldn't apply in any way (disproven,) and nuclear energy and radiation would be a non-factor (disproven.) hell, hyperstorm by himself disproves this theory, considering he controls all fundamental aspects of the universe. and for there to be no realistic science in a world where humans and mutants and aliens are as advanced as within the comics could only be explained by there being no laws with which the universe is governed. and that's been disproven.
and stormfront, your arguments now lack any credibility. you just admitted to not checking facts about your favorite character, you just admitted to throwing out unconfirmed reports about power plays storm has made as fact, despite them being turned around and disproven. you're just NOW beginning to post issue numbers, while DC spent an entire thread posting scans of actual feats, and you're still citing events that x has already disproven as if they were fact. it's poor debate technique to not know your material, and even worse to outright LIE. i'm pretty sure everyone involved can safely say the debate's over.
Originally posted by Disappear
and stormfront, your arguments now lack any credibility. you just admitted to not checking facts about your favorite character, you just admitted to throwing out unconfirmed reports about power plays storm has made as fact, despite them being turned around and disproven. you're just NOW beginning to post issue numbers, while DC spent an entire thread posting scans of actual feats, and you're still citing events that x has already disproven as if they were fact. it's poor debate technique to not know your material, and even worse to outright LIE. i'm pretty sure everyone involved can safely say the debate's over.
i didn't check the facts because everyone agreed with the facts. people had said that all thopse facts were true, asnd evryone agreed that seh had done them. people had posted scans of the comic in which she performed the feats. like here, issue numbers are provided about things being done, people believe them, and pass it on. it happens in every forum. how do you think the news of wolverine survivng a nuke got around? he didn't really do it, but when someone provides an issue number and people agree with him/her, everyone seems to believe it. it wasn't till about a month ago that someone actually looked at the comic and found out it wasn;t true. everyone does it, I'm not the first. and technically it's not lieing if you do not have the knowlege that you are lying or not.
Originally posted by CreshoskI'll hazard a guess: some overzealous Storm fans who would rather believe falsities, misinterpretations and just plain ol' BS at face value than think that Storm is incapable of some things.
Who is everyone that agreed to these feats? Who is everyone who agreed with these "facts"?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'll hazard a guess: some overzealous Storm fans who would rather believe falsities, misinterpretations and just plain ol' BS at face value than think that Storm is incapable of some things.
just off the top of my head
1)omegastorm
2)synch
3)magicrabbit
^^there were many others, i'll try to dig up the thread, but since then there has been a new storm thread so it might take a while, but everyone there seems to think storm did complete those feats.
you witness the very end of a crime, you have no idea what happened, except that you think someone wound up dead. a cop asks for your statement, and you tell him a story that you cannot substantiate based on what you think you know from your limited perspective. you get a subpoena and are made to give testimony in court. you give your story again, and it turns out you just ****ed the whole investigation by telling a mistruth to an officer. you're arrested for not only perjury, but for messing with an official police investigation. perhaps the example is a bit drastic, but do you see the parallels?
also, i can only assume that you're an american, so you really should have an understanding what passing on things you hear as fact can do. see, there once was this place called "Iraq," and a bunch of guys in our government decided to make things up, and tell everyone around them that they were the truth. and, as one might expect, the whole thing blew up in their faces! again, just another out-of-proportion example of a similarity, but a similar situation none the less.