Originally posted by BackFire
When it comes to something as major as abortion and pregnancy I think children are more likely to tell their parents if they've been raised correctly.
Of course. But the majority are not. Thats why there is a motion to enforce minors to have parents informed. Or why is it there in the first place ?
I didn't say avoid love, I mean to be sure that it is love. Teaching your kids to think about whether it is love or just someone you like more than anyone else, as much of a long shot as it sounds, does work.
Though I do agree you can't account for a renegade kid. I think that's the point though. If you've got your parents respect and they've done a good enough job, the kid won't have any reason not to believe them.
-AC
I think that parents (or some type of guardian) should need to be informed.
Abortions are a big deal, and they're not only harmful mentally (in some cases, not all I'm sure) but also physically.
According to Cosmo, and I've no idea how reliable this article is, after every abortion, the chance of becoming pregnant once again is lowered each time,and it has some affect on your overall health.
Here's some other facts just purely about abortion (having read some of the earlier pages) I found interesting.....
When does the unborn baby's heart begin to beat?
The heartbeat begins between the eighteenth and twenty-fifth day.
When does the brain begin to function?
Electrical brain waves have been recorded as early as forty days.
How early can a baby survive outside the mother's womb?
Currently, twenty weeks is considered the accepted minimum. However, this time will be reduced as medical technology continues to improve."
So then when is a baby truly alive?
Because without heart beating and brain function, it's just a mass of cells such as a cancerous tumour if you will, so by all means abortion can not be made illegal, unless you make cancer treatment illegal too 😑
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I don't think that's really fair. Parents can do a good job and still end up with troubled kids... I'm sure there's more reasons for teen pregnancy than just the parent's incompetence. Either way, there's no use in hindering the parent's efforts even further.
Of course it's fair.
Troubled kids = bad job. Simple equation.
Barring some terrible unforeseen circumstances.
Originally posted by Victor Von DoomThat sounds perfectly logical but in real life that's not the way things always work out.. good kids can come from dysfunctional families and bad kids can come from a "father of the year.." cause no matter how much you teach your kids right and wrong they are their own person and will make their own choices. Yes parents try to influence those choices but the kid is still more than just a reflection of their parent's parenting skills.. they have a mind of their own which is shaped from more than just what mom and dad tell them.
Of course it's fair.Troubled kids = bad job. Simple equation.
Barring some terrible unforeseen circumstances.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
That sounds perfectly logical but in real life that's not the way things always work out.. good kids can come from dysfunctional families and bad kids can come from a "father of the year.." cause no matter how much you teach your kids right and wrong they are their own person and will make their own choices. Yes parents try to influence those choices but the kid is still more than just a reflection of their parent's parenting skills.. they have a mind of their own which is shaped from more than just what mom and dad tell them.
Yeah but you're overlooking the fact that an extremely good parent that works to build a successful parent/child respect and relationship will more often than not, be the biggest influence on the child.
I was always free to make my own choices once I reached a certain age but I still took everything my parents said to me into consideration. Why? Because they treated me with respect, never oppressed me and as a result I have tremendous respect for them.
You're treating it as if no matter what the parents do, the kid is gonna have a clean slate again at a certain age, that's not the case.
-AC
Maybe the biggest influence on the child, but still never the only influence on the child. Even if an outside influence isn't as big as the parents, it can still be the deciding factor on certain decisions the kid makes. Plus the obvious fact that the kid does have his/her own mind and doesn't always decide based on influence.. sometimes it's just about what they want.
No I don't believe that the parenting isn't an influence to the kid at all I just don't think it's fair that if a kid makes bad choices then the only conclusion is that it's because the parents were incompetent. I think that's obviously a possibility but it's that doesn't mean it's the only conclusion. I don't know.. seems like too much of a generalization for me.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Maybe the biggest influence on the child, but still never the only influence on the child. Even if an outside influence isn't as big as the parents, it can still be the deciding factor on certain decisions the kid makes. Plus the obvious fact that the kid does have his/her own mind and doesn't always decide based on influence.. sometimes it's just about what they want.
What's your point though? The only point Victor made and that I am now making is that bad kids mean a bad job by the parents. No one said it was the only reason for them possibly making bad decisions, just that if parents were doing a good job, things like teenage pregnancy would be drastically reduced unless there were unfortunate circumstances. If you raise a kid right (not slacked or spoiled...right) then you will end up with a very, very likely chance that the child will grow up without drastically deviating from what you've taught them. If you oppress and restrain with no explanation or false explanation and such, they will have reason to rebel.
Prime example: I was never denied alcohol by my parents. I was allowed it from my early teens as long as they were present. So by the time I hit 18, I wasn't raring to jet out and experience this whole new world of drinking that my parents sheltered me from, because I already knew what it was. Similarly if parents are more open about sex and sexual intercourse with their children, without making it taboo or embarassing, a bit more laid back, then their children aren't going to be out in the world thinking "Wow, my dad/mum never told me about this. I'm gonna go dip into this unknown phenomena." Then, if they do decide to have sex at 15 or even 14, they'll know to do so in a safe environment with someone they do actually trust and protect themselves while doing it.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
No I don't believe that the parenting isn't an influence to the kid at all I just don't think it's fair that if a kid makes bad choices then the only conclusion is that it's because the parents were incompetent. I think that's obviously a possibility but it's that doesn't mean it's the only conclusion. I don't know.. seems like too much of a generalization for me.
If a kid thinks it's correct to go out and sleep with any random person, unprotected and end up with a baby at ages as young as 14, then the parents clearly did do a bad job. I'm not saying it's ALL on the parents, because once you get to a certain age you do have a mind of your own. Though even then it's still able to assimilate, so parents can still influence.
If parents wait until their child is 17 to start saying "Shit! He'll/She'll be legal next year, we better shape up" then it their own fault. If your child gets to that age without knowing that there are certain things you do and certain things you don't do, you're a shit parent.
-AC
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
That sounds perfectly logical but in real life that's not the way things always work out.. good kids can come from dysfunctional families and bad kids can come from a "father of the year.." cause no matter how much you teach your kids right and wrong they are their own person and will make their own choices. Yes parents try to influence those choices but the kid is still more than just a reflection of their parent's parenting skills.. they have a mind of their own which is shaped from more than just what mom and dad tell them.
I don't agree. A properly raised child won't be getting pregnant, hiding it, and aborting it before they are 18.
That's a simple fact.
Lest we forget, it's not 'children', it's 'girls'.
If I ever have a daughter, I can 99% guarantee this wouldn't happen.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I don't agree. A properly raised child won't be getting pregnant, hiding it, and aborting it before they are 18.That's a simple fact.
Lest we forget, it's not 'children', it's 'girls'.
If I ever have a daughter, I can 99% guarantee this wouldn't happen.
How would you 'properly' raise a child? I dont mean this in a sarcastic way.
Girls are not asexual, it takes two to make the baby.... What if you had a son who got his girlfriend pregnant? Would you also consider him to be unproperly raised?
What if the proper precautions were taken, but it still failed?
Honestly, which in your opinion is unproperly raising a child, teaching safe sex, or abstinence?
There are really a lot of questions to take into effect, and there are still a lot of grey areas in this topic.
I really don't like the double standards that are placed on girls. It's always our fault if we get pregnant. Even if we practice safe sex, and force our partner to do the same, it's still our fault if something happens. Plus the consequences are much heavier for girls who get pregnant vs. guys who are father to the child.
Originally posted by Curl_Up&Dye
How would you 'properly' raise a child? I dont mean this in a sarcastic way.
Non- sarcastic answer: properly.
Originally posted by Curl_Up&Dye
Girls are not asexual, it takes two to make the baby.
Someone's got an A in biology.
Originally posted by Curl_Up&Dye
... What if you had a son who got his girlfriend pregnant? Would you also consider him to be unproperly raised?
No. It's irrelevant to this argument.
Originally posted by Curl_Up&Dye
What if the proper precautions were taken, but it still failed?
Irrelevant to this argument, as mentioned above.
Originally posted by Curl_Up&Dye
Honestly, which in your opinion is unproperly raising a child, teaching safe sex, or abstinence?
Same again. Improper raising in this instance has nothing to do with sex.
Originally posted by Curl_Up&Dye
There are really a lot of questions to take into effect, and there are still a lot of grey areas in this topic.I really don't like the double standards that are placed on girls. It's always our fault if we get pregnant. Even if we practice safe sex, and force our partner to do the same, it's still our fault if something happens. Plus the consequences are much heavier for girls who get pregnant vs. guys who are father to the child.
Yeah...
Getting back on topic, hiding an abortion behind your parents' backs- bad parenting.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriWell I don't disagree that parenting needs to be improve or that it would help prevent things like teen pregnancy, what I disagree with is that "if the parents were at all decent at raising kids, it wouldn't happen."
What's your point though? The only point Victor made and that I am now making is that bad kids mean a bad job by the parents. No one said it was the only reason for them possibly making bad decisions, just that if parents were doing a good job, things like teenage pregnancy would be drastically reduced unless there were unfortunate circumstances. If you raise a kid right (not slacked or spoiled...right) then you will end up with a very, very likely chance that the child will grow up without drastically deviating from what you've taught them. If you oppress and restrain with no explanation or false explanation and such, they will have reason to rebel.
Prime example: I was never denied alcohol by my parents. I was allowed it from my early teens as long as they were present. So by the time I hit 18, I wasn't raring to jet out and experience this whole new world of drinking that my parents sheltered me from, because I already knew what it was. Similarly if parents are more open about sex and sexual intercourse with their children, without making it taboo or embarassing, a bit more laid back, then their children aren't going to be out in the world thinking "Wow, my dad/mum never told me about this. I'm gonna go dip into this unknown phenomena." Then, if they do decide to have sex at 15 or even 14, they'll know to do so in a safe environment with someone they do actually trust and protect themselves while doing it.It's great that your parent's method worked for you and your parents but that doesn't mean it would work for another family. I mean don't get me wrong I do believe there's a right way to raise kids and a wrong way to raise kids it's just that different kids will have different results.
If a kid thinks it's correct to go out and sleep with any random person, unprotected and end up with a baby at ages as young as 14, then the parents clearly did do a bad job. I'm not saying it's ALL on the parents, because once you get to a certain age you do have a mind of your own. Though even then it's still able to assimilate, so parents can still influence.I agree.. if a kid thinks that's right then the parents have failed them. However, that's not the only way kids get pregnant. It doesn't have to be with some stranger and it doesn't have to be unprotected. That's just a more extreme example of under aged sex.If parents wait until their child is 17 to start saying "Shit! He'll/She'll be legal next year, we better shape up" then it their own fault. If your child gets to that age without knowing that there are certain things you do and certain things you don't do, you're a shit parent.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Well I don't disagree that parenting needs to be improve or that it would help prevent things like teen pregnancy, what I disagree with is that "if the parents were at all decent at raising kids, it wouldn't happen."
Well it wouldn't. As Vic said, if any decent job is done, a girl won't have sex, resultantly get pregnant and then have an abortion before she's even legal or sometimes before legal A.o.C.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
It's great that your parent's method worked for you and your parents but that doesn't mean it would work for another family. I mean don't get me wrong I do believe there's a right way to raise kids and a wrong way to raise kids it's just that different kids will have different results.
Well then we agree that there are such things as good and bad parenting. In this case, if a girl has had an abortion by 16/17. It's bad parenting.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I agree.. if a kid thinks that's right then the parents have failed them. However, that's not the only way kids get pregnant. It doesn't have to be with some stranger and it doesn't have to be unprotected. That's just a more extreme example of under aged sex.
It's one that is quite common in London, let me tell you.
-AC