Religion vs Spirituality

I feel religion would have you take it's word for it...That is why all religions ultimately fail..Spirituality, on the other hand, will always succeed. Religions asked you to learn form the experience of others..Spirituality urges you to seek your way...Religion cannot stand spirituality. It cannot abide in it..For Spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion...and religion cannot tolerate it...Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.."Feeling Good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was a truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love...The phrase "If it feels good do it", is not accepted by religions and makes one feel guilty for any pleasures as churches has defined it....I feel to know how far you have progressed in life and to measure how highly you have evolved is simply look to see what makes you "feel good", not "feel bad"....Knowing yourself is not denying what might feel good for you. Self-denial is self-destruction, of course not at the expense of others...It's funny how Religions have made everything that is natural into a sin...We all have that little voice inside us...It tells us what feels good for ourselves or not.....Whether physically or emotionally, Your thoughts?

I agree.

'' Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. ''

~ Buddha

I think this is spirituality at its best, but then again, im bias a little.

I believe this statement may be true for some religions, but not for all. The religion that I am a part of is able to integrate religion and spirituality to a greater degree. Although I admit that it is not a 100% integration, it is far better than most.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I feel religion would have you take it's word for it...That is why all religions ultimately fail..Spirituality, on the other hand, will always succeed. Religions asked you to learn form the experience of others..Spirituality urges you to seek your way...Religion cannot stand spirituality. It cannot abide in it..For Spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion...and religion cannot tolerate it...Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.."Feeling Good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was a truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love...The phrase "If it feels good do it", is not accepted by religions and makes one feel guilty for any pleasures as churches has defined it....I feel to know how far you have progressed in life and to measure how highly you have evolved is simply look to see what makes you "feel good", not "feel bad"....Knowing yourself is not denying what might feel good for you. Self-denial is self-destruction, of course not at the expense of others...It's funny how Religions have made everything that is natural into a sin...We all have that little voice inside us...It tells us what feels good for ourselves or not.....Whether physically or emotionally, Your thoughts?

And yet, how many times have people adopted the mindset of "If it feels good do it" only to the detriment of others? A person can say "not at the expense of others" but how many people actually put that into action?

Originally posted by debbiejo
I feel religion would have you take it's word for it...That is why all religions ultimately fail..Spirituality, on the other hand, will always succeed. Religions asked you to learn form the experience of others..Spirituality urges you to seek your way...Religion cannot stand spirituality. It cannot abide in it..For Spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion...and religion cannot tolerate it...Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.."Feeling Good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was a truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love...The phrase "If it feels good do it", is not accepted by religions and makes one feel guilty for any pleasures as churches has defined it....I feel to know how far you have progressed in life and to measure how highly you have evolved is simply look to see what makes you "feel good", not "feel bad"....Knowing yourself is not denying what might feel good for you. Self-denial is self-destruction, of course not at the expense of others...It's funny how Religions have made everything that is natural into a sin...We all have that little voice inside us...It tells us what feels good for ourselves or not.....Whether physically or emotionally, Your thoughts?

The overall and apparent absolute claims of this paragraph is ludicrous. Religion fails, spirituality succeeds. Defined how and by whom? Religion makes you feel bad, spirituality makes you feel good. On the contrary, most people I know feel good about their religion. Religions have made everything that is natural into a sin. Like a mother’s natural love for her child or is this supposed to be only a reference to sex? Self-denial is self-destruction. Then I guess I’ll have another gallon of ice cream today. Wouldn't want to pass it up and risk self-destruction. Or did I miss another sex reference?
😕

Originally posted by klimtog321
It seems a bit hypocritical to say that spirituality invites you to come up with your own thoughts which you are obviously extolling, but then you quote almost word for word someone else’s thoughts (Neal Walsch’s, Conversations With God Book II, page 80) . So you read those words and they resonated with you. And how is that different from someone who reads the Bible or the Koran or another “religion” book and concludes that it is something they agree with? If you had never read this and other books full of other people’s thoughts or listened to others, would you still have the same spirituality that you have today?

The overall and apparent absolute claims of this paragraph is ludicrous. Religion fails, spirituality succeeds. Defined how and by whom? Religion makes you feel bad, spirituality makes you feel good. On the contrary, most people I know feel good about their religion. Religions have made everything that is natural into a sin. Like a mother’s natural love for her child or is this supposed to be only a reference to sex? Self-denial is self-destruction. Then I guess I’ll have another gallon of ice cream today. Wouldn't want to pass it up and risk self-destruction. Or did I miss another sex reference?
😕

I truly don't think she meant it in such a literal way, although now that you point it out, I think you are your right. Life should be moderated in some way. Selfish spirituality would be just as bad as fanaticism. I think there must be a middle way, do you know of anyone who has talked about that kind of religion? 😆

Religion is spiritual and spirituality is religious. One tends to be more personal and private while the other tends to incorporate public rituals and organized doctrines. The lines between one and the other are not clear and distinct, they are all points on the spectrum of belief systems known as religion. Neither religion nor spirituality is better or worse than the other.

The term itself came to be used frequently only after the 1960s when there were widespread revolts against every form of organized authority, including organized religion. Every establishment and every system of authority was thought to be corrupt and evil, including those which were religious. But people weren’ t prepared to abandon religion entirely. So they created a new category which was still religious, but which no longer included the same traditional authority figures.

Well put Storm and agreed Shaky. I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive as the author suggests. It appears he does so to maintain his "Religion bad, spirituality good" theme. So the more he could denounce the other view, the more he could elevate his own view. In the same book, he writes that "Hitler didn't hurt anyone. In a sense he didn't inflict suffering, he ended it." By this logic, we should just push all the buttons and release the nukes to end all our suffering. Or maybe we just start with the author of the book 2guns Sorry, going off topic.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
... Selfish spirituality would be just as bad as fanaticism. I think there must be a middle way, do you know of anyone who has talked about that kind of religion? 😆

Yes I do, almost everyday. And I think you are very accurate in calling it "selfish spirituality." It denies any responsibility for ones actions. It basically says that I'm fine as I am and if I do anything to hurt you it's your problem.

Originally posted by klimtog321
Well put Storm and agreed Shaky. I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive as the author suggests. It appears he does so to maintain his "Religion bad, spirituality good" theme. So the more he could denounce the other view, the more he could elevate his own view. In the same book, he writes that "Hitler didn't hurt anyone. In a sense he didn't inflict suffering, he ended it." By this logic, we should just push all the buttons and release the nukes to end all our suffering. Or maybe we just start with the author of the book 2guns Sorry, going off topic.

Everyone has that little voice...the one that lets you know if you are being true to ones self...Many religions want you to be true to "There view"...As for Hitler, It was at the expense of others..His little voice was disturbed...He wasn't seeking spirituality......I'm talking about unselfish spirituality.....Like I've said before, there are negatives and positives in this world...If you align yourself with the positives, you will have more positives in your life,...that's the good feeling and unselfish part of you...many however, look to religions to connect with god....and some do find some peace in that....I feel that you don't need a religious structure...Spirituality is a journey for one......The problem with many religions as I've said, is that they want you to only trust in their doctrines, not really find your own spirituality.

Originally posted by klimtog321
Yes I do, almost everyday. And I think you are very accurate in calling it "selfish spirituality." It denies any responsibility for ones actions. It basically says that I'm fine as I am and if I do anything to hurt you it's your problem.

Most religions are a "only our way, and certain rituals"....Spirituality is a wanting to be more connected with what god is.....Many religions won't accepted anything out of what they are told to believe..thinking that god couldn't actually have anything to say for us today.

If lets say a very religious Baptist who feels very spiritual looks down on lets say a Buddhist for believing something different about god....Then the Baptists is ignoring or putting down the Spiritual truth of the Buddhist, because it's the Baptist doctrine to do so...am I right?..Saving the Buddhist from Hell? ..and not truly allowing the Buddhists truth of what he/she has found.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I believe this statement may be true for some religions, but not for all. The religion that I am a part of is able to integrate religion and spirituality to a greater degree. Although I admit that it is not a 100% integration, it is far better than most.

''My doctrine is not a doctrine but just a vision. I have not given you any set rules, I have not given you a system."

Thus, Buddha's inbtention was never to ''start a new religion'' but to help people enlighten themselves just like he has. He says he has not given us a system - its people that made it a system. There cannot be a system in spirituality - everyone's experience of spirituality is different.

I do not see Buddhism as a religion - i never have. Its a philosophy - its spirituality at its best, well defined in the post by debbiejo.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Actually if you recall the words of Buddha he himself said

[b]''My doctrine is not a doctrine but just a vision. I have not given you any set rules, I have not given you a system."

Thus, Buddha's inbtention was never to ''start a new religion'' but to help people enlighten themselves just like he has. He says he has not given us a system - its people that made it a system. There cannot be a system in spirituality - everyone's experience of spirituality is different.

I do not see Buddhism as a religion - i never have. Its a philosophy - its spirituality at its best, well defined in the post by debbiejo. [/B]

I am a Nichiren Buddhist and that is a religion.

"Members of the SGI practice the Buddhism taught by Nichiren, a 13th Century Japanese priest whose philosophy centered around the final teaching of the first historically recognized Buddha. This teaching, called the Lotus Sutra, declares that all living beings have the potential to attain enlightenment or Buddhahood."

Although each person’s practice is a personal one, we have a membership of over 12 million world wide.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/bofnd.html

Whoooooooo two Buddhist fighting....starwars

😂 😂

j/k

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am a Nichiren Buddhist and that is a religion.

"Members of the SGI practice the Buddhism taught by Nichiren, a 13th Century Japanese priest whose philosophy centered around the final teaching of the first historically recognized Buddha. This teaching, called the Lotus Sutra, declares that all living beings have the potential to attain enlightenment or Buddhahood."

Although each person’s practice is a personal one, we have a membership of over 12 million world wide.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/bofnd.html

I never mentioned anything about you - I said ''I never saw Buddhism as a religion''.
It simply does not comply to my understanding of spirituality and enlightment.

My replationship with my mind and thought, the way I achieve peace and happiness is my own, and cannot possibly be governed by anyone or anything else.

But agian, as Buddha said there are 84, 000 ways to reach the truth - theres no ''right'' or ''only'' way, and whichever way people pick - should be the one they feel will lead them to it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I never mentioned anything about you - I said ''I never saw Buddhism as a religion''.
It simply does not comply to my understanding of spirituality and enlightment.

My replationship with my mind and thought, the way I achieve peace and happiness is my own, and cannot possibly be governed by anyone or anything else.

But agian, as Buddha said there are 84, 000 ways to reach the truth - theres no ''right'' or ''only'' way, and whichever way people pick - should be the one they feel will lead them to it.

I wasn't offended or anything, I just write that way sometimes. It comes from writing too many Engineering Orders.

I was trying to say that although you are one of many, many people who see Buddhism as a philosophy or spirituality there is a smaller number of people who see Buddhism as a religion. 😄

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

I do not see Buddhism as a religion - i never have. Its a philosophy - its spirituality at its best, well defined in the post by debbiejo. [/B]

So if Buddhism is not a religion, then why are you talking about it on the religion forum? 🙄 Just kidding, but I do disagree that spirituality was well defined in the post. So before we go further I think we need to agree on some definition of terms. One dictionary I have defines religion as either 1) belief in and reverence for a supernatural power recognized as the Creator and governor of the universe or 2) The spiritual or emotional attitude of one who recognizes the existence of super human power or powers.
Spirituality is the state of being spiritual which is defined by 1) having nature of the spirit 2) of, concerned with, or affecting the soul 3) of, concerned with or pertaining to God. 3) of or belonging to a church or religion 4) supernatural.
So by these definitions, there is no clear distinction between the two. I’m not saying I particular like these definitions. Please offer whatever working definitions you wish to use. Could you please also define for me what “the truth” is that there are 84,000 ways to reach?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Everyone has that little voice...the one that lets you know if you are being true to ones self...Many religions want you to be true to "There view"...As for Hitler, It was at the expense of others..His little voice was disturbed...He wasn't seeking spirituality......I'm talking about unselfish spirituality.....Like I've said before, there are negatives and positives in this world...If you align yourself with the positives, you will have more positives in your life,...that's the good feeling and unselfish part of you...many however, look to religions to connect with god....and some do find some peace in that....I feel that you don't need a religious structure...Spirituality is a journey for one......The problem with many religions as I've said, is that they want you to only trust in their doctrines, not really find your own spirituality.

I disagree that Hitler wasn’t seeking spirituality. And I’m sure he felt he was doing the world a favor by eliminating the Jews. How can you judge that his little voice was disturbed but be assured that your little voice is perfect? You can’t go through life without impacting others through your actions or even just your words that can have the result of being at the expense of others. And does this only rely on intention? That is, if you don’t intend to hurt someone, but you do, was the little voice misleading you? If the little voice was ever “wrong,” how could you ever fully trust it or do you think it can never be wrong?
I also don’t believe that "Spirituality is a journey for one" is a totally accurate statement. This is kind of the point I was trying to make before because those who claim to be on this journey ALONE are reading books, talking with others and being taught by teachers on everything from how to meditate, how to seek truth, how to contact spirits, categorizing what types of spirits there are, how to read the stars or tea leaves or tarot cards or whatever. We all to some degree assimilate what we hear from others and we choose to agree and even adopt some views and disagree or reject other views. In that way, spirituality is no different from religion as the original author tried to claim.

Originally posted by klimtog321
I disagree that Hitler wasn’t seeking spirituality. And I’m sure he felt he was doing the world a favor by eliminating the Jews..

Originally posted by klimtog321
If the little voice was ever “wrong,” how could you ever fully trust it or do you think it can never be wrong?

Originally posted by klimtog321
I also don’t believe that "Spirituality is a journey for one" is a totally accurate statement.

Originally posted by klimtog321
. This is kind of the point I was trying to make before because those who claim to be on this journey ALONE are reading books, talking with others and being taught by teachers on everything from how to meditate, how to seek truth, how to contact spirits, categorizing what types of spirits there are, how to read the stars or tea leaves or tarot cards or whatever.

Is there only one way?...What is your way then........

Originally posted by klimtog321
I disagree that Hitler wasn’t seeking spirituality. And I’m sure he felt he was doing the world a favor by eliminating the Jews. How can you judge that his little voice was disturbed but be assured that your little voice is perfect? You can’t go through life without impacting others through your actions or even just your words that can have the result of being at the expense of others. And does this only rely on intention? That is, if you don’t intend to hurt someone, but you do, was the little voice misleading you? If the little voice was ever “wrong,” how could you ever fully trust it or do you think it can never be wrong?
I also don’t believe that "Spirituality is a journey for one" is a totally accurate statement. This is kind of the point I was trying to make before because those who claim to be on this journey ALONE are reading books, talking with others and being taught by teachers on everything from how to meditate, how to seek truth, how to contact spirits, categorizing what types of spirits there are, how to read the stars or tea leaves or tarot cards or whatever. We all to some degree assimilate what we hear from others and we choose to agree and even adopt some views and disagree or reject other views. In that way, spirituality is no different from religion as the original author tried to claim.

When you say "little voice" do you know what you are talking about? At every moment there are many “voices” in our minds. Most if not all of these “voices” are created by all the states of being that we are living at that moment. Many of these “voices” are really not “voices”, they are feelings; manifest karma from the ten worlds. All of these “voices” but one have something in common; they are filled with delusion. There is one “small quiet voice” in each of us and this voice is enlightenment. This “small quiet voice” was the same “small quiet voice” that is in you, me, and every other living and non-living beings. I will tell you now; Hitler did not follow that “small quiet voice”, like most people, Hitler was filled with delusion.