Religion vs Spirituality

Inquire within, rather than without asking...What part of my self do I wish to experience now in the face of this time...What aspect of being do I choose to call forth...Your own truth...The most difficult thing for people to do is to hear their own soul...Notice that so few people do that...They have forgotten the small voice.....But not all...It's that quiet voice....From the highest mountain it has been shouted, in the lowest pure whisper has been heard...Through the corridors of all human experience has this Truth been echoed....Love is the answer...unconditional love...Not rituals....It's your highest thought, your clearest word, your grandest feeling...Anything less is from another source.....You don't need religion to tell you what truth is...People who are seekers of spirituality, only want more of a connect with it....Truth is always there regardless......It's not found in churches, or rituals...It just "IS"....Even to the point of letting go of someone you love which makes is unconditional love, and not selfish love... 🙂

Originally posted by klimtog321
You’re sugar-coating your response in referring to Buddhism and Hinduism. If you think you’re belief is right they are wrong. Truth is truth. Partial truth is no truth at all.
Your laundry list has two problems, one it contains many items that are not rituals at all, simply beliefs and secondly to imply that all Christians believe these things is way off. Many things you listed are Catholic-specific doctrines, for example, that a Protestant would adamantly disagree with and vice versa.
Further to imply that Spiritualists do not employ rituals is also false. I can easily argue that the chanting and meditating done by Spiritualists is nothing more than a ritual.

Untrue, as far as Buddhism goes.

Buddha said himself that he has not provided a religion or a system, only his vision. He also said that noone should follow Buddhism if they believe that what it is said does not equal what they deem to be the truth.

The whole point in Buddhism is that you yourself find your way and truth. your mind is everything - noone can tell you to be a certain way if such does not agree with what you believe is true.

Buddhists are not conserned about converting people to buddhism - they are conserned about helping people, regardless of religion, status, gender, colour...etc.

Buddha said that there are 85 000 ways to reach ''truth'' or 'Nirvana' if you like. Whichever of these path person take is up to them.

As for Hinduism, it believes that all religions are correct - there is no right or wrong.
Or in the words of Krishna itself -

Although I am in every religion, I am beyond all religions...
I am beyond all dualities... of Good / Evil, of Love / Hate, of Pleasure/Pain....
.... your anger, your bitterness,
does not bother Me at all....
there is no "bad" thing which you could do,
.... or "good" thing which you could fail to do...
which would prevent Me from perfecting you to that purpose
for which I ultimately created you.

Both of these religion's in their view vary so much to Judeo-Christian Islamic religion.

Besides since I believe we are all one in essence...Truth remains constant in all of us...We are all part of the creative process...always creating, that same spark of what ever it is.....IT IS IN US ALL....so why would it contradict it's self........As some quantum theories at our sub particles ie photons there is really nothing we are not apart of including the invisible....there are only denser dimensions seen at different vibrational levels....yet, we are still connected...so what flows through you also flows throw me.......I think it's COOL!!!!

That's why metaphysics works well with quantum physics.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Besides since I believe we are all one in essence...

thumbsup same here!

cheers

Originally posted by debbiejo
Inquire within, rather than without asking...What part of my self do I wish to experience now in the face of this time...What aspect of being do I choose to call forth...Your own truth...The most difficult thing for people to do is to hear their own soul...Notice that so few people do that...They have forgotten the small voice.....But not all...It's that quiet voice....From the highest mountain it has been shouted, in the lowest pure whisper has been heard...Through the corridors of all human experience has this Truth been echoed....Love is the answer...unconditional love...Not rituals....It's your highest thought, your clearest word, your grandest feeling...Anything less is from another source.....You don't need religion to tell you what truth is...People who are seekers of spirituality, only want more of a connect with it....Truth is always there regardless......It's not found in churches, or rituals...It just "IS"....Even to the point of letting go of someone you love which makes is unconditional love, and not selfish love... 🙂

So once again you prove that your “superior because it’s lonely” journey is not just based on your own revelations but the thoughts of others. Likewise, who has taught the Buddhist to chant or meditate? Everyone who questions life, death, and the nature of God has taken a spiritual journey regardless of their religion or spiritual beliefs.
If you look for truth and find it, do you keep looking for it? And if it happens to agree with what someone believes to be truth must you say, “Oh, this is someone else’s truth as well so it can’t be mine, so I must go look elsewhere.”?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Untrue, as far as Buddhism goes.

Buddha said himself that he has not provided a religion or a system, only his vision. He also said that noone should follow Buddhism if they believe that what it is said does not equal what they deem to be the truth.

The whole point in Buddhism is that you yourself find your way and truth. your mind is everything - noone can tell you to be a certain way if such does not agree with what you believe is true.

Buddhists are not conserned about converting people to buddhism - they are conserned about helping people, regardless of religion, status, gender, colour...etc.

Buddha said that there are 85 000 ways to reach ''truth'' or 'Nirvana' if you like. Whichever of these path person take is up to them.

And I'm hoping that your statement about Buddhists being concerned about helping people doesn't generalize that religions don't or that they only care about converting people.

Originally posted by debbiejo
cheers

Mind if I join you two? I'm feeling kind of lonely in here.
🍺

Originally posted by klimtog321
Inquire within, rather than without asking...What part of my self do I wish to experience now in the face of this time...What aspect of being do I choose to call forth... (Walsch, Conversations with God, book 1, page 32)
the most difficult thing for people to do is to hear their own soul...Notice that so few people do that...(ibid, page 81)
....From the highest mountain it has been shouted, in the lowest pure whisper has been heard...Through the corridors of all human experience has this Truth been echoed....Love is the answer..(ibid, page 58)
It's your highest thought, your clearest word, your grandest feeling. (ibid, page 5)

So once again you prove that your “superior because it’s lonely” journey is not just based on your own revelations but the thoughts of others. Likewise, who has taught the Buddhist to chant or meditate? Everyone who questions life, death, and the nature of God has taken a spiritual journey regardless of their religion or spiritual beliefs.
If you look for truth and find it, do you keep looking for it? And if it happens to agree with what someone believes to be truth must you say, “Oh, this is someone else’s truth as well so it can’t be mine, so I must go look elsewhere.”?

If I find something that resonates with in an author, and think his/her words do say what I'm trying to express/convey in a better way, I'll quote it of him/her...Just as I do with Biblical scripture.....I do find other reading materials that I've agreed with, and quoted them as well....doesn't mean I take all in to what certain authors say....I know how to think for myself...I meditate not lightly on each subject I encounter...I research things intensively..and compare them to certain science fields.....I pick and choose what I feel is right for me...and my thoughts are not overcome so lightly....They are in agreement with what I feel and researched.......and if you pick and choose what makes you happy then more power to you, yes more power to you....Don't look down and condemn those that differ from yours......It's a journey for one, though can be shared with many.....If you're happy, then stay there....I wouldn't want to change anyone for my pleasure...only to state my thinking.

OH yeah!!! Join the table and have a beer...plenty of room for opened minded people.

I'll take some Asti on Ice...........so nice.

Originally posted by debbiejo
....Don't look down and condemn those that differ from yours......It's a journey for one, though can be shared with many.....If you're happy, then stay there....I wouldn't want to change anyone for my pleasure...only to state my thinking.

OH yeah!!! Join the table and have a beer...plenty of room for opened minded people.

I'll take some Asti on Ice...........so nice.

Sorry, didn't think that any of my responses suggested that I looked down or condemned those that differ from me. Certainly not my intention. But if I may point it out, you're the one who started the thread with a quote that "looks down" on other belief systems than the authors who implicitly states his as superior to others.

Thanks for the seat. But I will have a Bailey's on ice.... also nice. 😛

Gives me pleasure and satisfaction to see people expressing their core in such a civil and respectful way. Imagine, if this alone were the way people find each other to be.

Sigh.

Beyond that I have no useful contribution to these type of thoughts. Interesting though.

Originally posted by klimtog321
Sorry, didn't think that any of my responses suggested that I looked down or condemned those that differ from me. Certainly not my intention. But if I may point it out, you're the one who started the thread with a quote that "looks down" on other belief systems than the authors who implicitly states his as superior to others.

Thanks for the seat. But I will have a Bailey's on ice.... also nice. 😛

Originally posted by klimtog321
Sorry, didn't think that any of my responses suggested that I looked down or condemned those that differ from me. Certainly not my intention. But if I may point it out, you're the one who started the thread with a quote that "looks down" on other belief systems than the authors who implicitly states his as superior to others.

Thanks for the seat. But I will have a Bailey's on ice.... also nice. 😛

Atheist?....curious on what you're belief is since we all professed ours,....what is yours.?

Originally posted by klimtog321
No, your quote said "Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own" indicating that it is superior for that reason. But what I've tried to show is that isn't true since a person's spirituality is not arrived at without input from others in the form of books, teachers, etc. in the same way that a person's religion is arrived at by input from their books, teachers, etc. What's the difference?

I agree. 😉

Spirituality= This term is defined quite differently by monotheists, polytheists, humanists, followers of new age, Native Americans, etc. A common meaning is "devotion to metaphysical matters, as opposed to worldly things." Another is "Activities which renew, lift up, comfort, heal and inspire both ourselves and those with whom we interact."

Just a question, is this an agreeable definition for spirituality?

Originally posted by KPrince
Spirituality= This term is defined quite differently by monotheists, polytheists, humanists, followers of new age, Native Americans, etc. A common meaning is "devotion to metaphysical matters, as opposed to worldly things." Another is "Activities which renew, lift up, comfort, heal and inspire both ourselves and those with whom we interact."

Just a question, is this an agreeable definition for spirituality?

Maybe...don't know about monotheists, or polytheists though.....I think it would be more like Native Americans, New Age, Buddhist, Hindu's (though don't know much about them)...though with humanism...I don't think they think much about spiritual matters...//Spirituality is just trying to connect with something higher...but through humanism, I don't think it would be called that.

Originally posted by klimtog321
If a religion says there is one truth and Buddhism says there is more than one truth or a different truth for each person, then both cannot be correct. What you are really saying is that religion cares about whether other people believe in their truth and Buddhism doesn’t care which truth or path you take to truth. Since there are 85,000 ways (which I know is just a random large number) then they can justify about any behavior as their truth or path and you cannot refute it. You can make a judgment that another person is insane or isn’t listening to their quiet voice, but by what standard or measurement can you make that statement?

And I'm hoping that your statement about Buddhists being concerned about helping people doesn't generalize that religions don't or that they only care about converting people.

Please dont make remarks about a religion you have no clue about. The only thing you know about Buddhism is the name, other than that you are utterly unfamiliar with what it preaches or what it is.

Buddhist perspective -

Have Buddhists ever killed in the name of religion? No.
Are Buddhists allowed to be soldiers? No.
Have Buddhists ever waged war in the name of Buddhism? Hell no.
Are you wrong for believing in other religion apart from Buddhism? No.
Are people who are not Buddhists go to Hell? No.
Has a Buddhist ever destroyed church, mosque or sinagouge? No

Judeo-Christian and Islamic persepctive-

Has a Christian, Muslim or a Jew ever killed in the name of their religion? Yes.
Are Christians, Muslims and Jews allowed to be soldiers? Yes.
Have Christians or Muslims ever waged war in the name of Islam and Christianity? Yes.
Are other religions apart from Christianity, Islam and Judaism wrong? Yes.
Will people who are not Christians, Jews or Muslims go to Hell? Yes.

Unlike your holy books, Buddhism says, you will not get punished for your anger and hate you will be punished by your anger and hate.

Anger, hate, greed and attachment are causes of suffering in humans and to be a Buddhists is to strive against anger hate greed and attachment.
Organised religion is all about rituals and performances. Everyone is a good Jew, Christian and Muslims when they go to fast or in their temples or listen to the service - but as soon as it comes to showing compassion and kindness to someone of other religion, all their principles go out of the window and chopping of hands and heads occurs.

Your monotheist organised religion preach female inferiority, and Buddhism and Hinduism who pre date your religions by thousands of years preach that woman and men are mentaly, psychologically and spiritually equal.

I think the biggest irony here is that you are trying to suggest something about Buddhist morality - possibly the most moral religion in the world today.

Please read about Buddhism at least a little. I know a great deal about Islam and Christianity and on the way to learning about Judaism - and when i chose to make a comment about these religions, I tend to know exactly what I am talking about.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Maybe...don't know about monotheists, or polytheists though.....I think it would be more like Native Americans, New Age, Buddhist, Hindu's (though don't know much about them)...though with humanism...I don't think they think much about spiritual matters...//Spirituality is just trying to connect with something higher...but through humanism, I don't think it would be called that.

The reason I posted the definition was because it can be applied to religion as well. The first part of the definition is self-explanatory, but let's look at the second definition. Many who are religious see in their religion "Activities which renew, lift up, comfort, heal and inspire both ourselves and those with whom we interact." Just like Spiritualists, they may seek others to be as inspired as they are about their religion. A spiritualist, in this respect is no different, because they have a view of life that they would want others to be inspired to adopt as well. Which is why you took the ideas you first posted from a book, written by someone else who inspired you. Which brings me back to the point that religion and spiritualism are not that different from each other.

Spiritualist?....Never considered myself that....And the first book that lead me to many of my beliefs was a Quantum physics book.....I only found other such books that fit that view.....

Religion if you really look in to many of them does not at all equally being Spiritual.....People just used titles as "Religion"...Native Americans are more spiritual than religious...they know much that fits in with the invisible....Religion however, doesn't quite make the connection very well....They pray and pray, not understanding the principles of how things work, though I will have to say that with many in one accord there have been many "miracles", but such things are also done by non believers in Christs and with one person...It's the power and strength of attraction to what one believes.....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Spiritualist?....Never considered myself that....And the first book that lead me to many of my beliefs was a Quantum physics book.....I only found other such books that fit that view.....

Religion if you really look in to many of them does not at all equally being Spiritual.....People just used titles as "Religion"...Native Americans are more spiritual than religious...they know much that fits in with the invisible....Religion however, doesn't quite make the connection very well....They pray and pray, not understanding the principles of how things work, though I will have to say that with many in one accord there have been many "miracles", but such things are also done by non believers in Christs and with one person...It's the power and strength of attraction to what one believes.....

I just used the word spiritualist for convenience. 😉