Originally posted by Se7in
Why don't you explain why PT Generals can compete even remotely with Revan?Revan not only mastered the art of war, but learned how to maximize the victory of a war, leaving enemy industries, like factories, intact so he wouldn't have to start over when he won. He was a genius and probably the best strategest has and ever would see.
Because the burden of proof is on you to prove that he is good. Then, I must prove why others can compete with him.
Also, name a single brilliant strategist that Revan went against.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Because the burden of proof is on you to prove that he is good. Then, I must prove why others can compete with him.Also, name a single brilliant strategist that Revan went against.
Like I said... you suddenly act like this intellectual debating heavy, Glentract, and you just come off as a prick. Please... don't do that.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
The Mandalorians had real Wars and battle circles and trained for longer. Jeez, what do you want from me, exact Mandalorian battle drills? Well sorry I can't provide them, damn.
Name some of these real wars. The only known war was The Great Sith War, which most Mandalorians that fought in it would be dead. The battle circle is a sparring arena, Clones did the same thing, I believe.
Clones also had things such as flash learning to help them learn things that were more simplistic at high speed.
Well, I hate to be a prick in turn, but you are acting rather headstrong. While I realize I'm usually guilty of the same thing, you have to do it in moderation or risk pissing off everyone else. Like right now? I really don't wanna debate with you because work is driving me apeshit and you're being more anal than I'm able to contend with while answering phones.
Originally posted by Se7in
PT Jedi are mainly diplomats and horrible fighters.[/B]
Horrible fighters ?
I start to hate the way the PT Jedi are treated like losers around here. Each of them is still capable of wasting dozens of droids / normal soldiers. We've seen a Padawan killing 5 or 6 Clone Troopers, we have seen Ki-Adi-Mundi getting betrayed, surprised and jumped by 6 Clone Troopers and still kill 2 of them. We have seen Yoda and Obi-Wan in ROTS defeating how many clones in front of the temple ? 10, 15, 20 ? If you consider informations given in the EU some of them have killed dozens or even hundreds of people in direct confrontation. And you call them horrible fighters ? What's a "good fighter" for you in this case ?
Back to the topic:
Revan took the Mandalorians with 1/3 of the KotoR time Republic forces and maybe 50 % of the Jedi present at this time.
Here we have the PT Republic with superior firepower and technology compared to KotoR time Republic (remember - the pride of the KotoR Rebulics navy was a ship which is 1/3 of the size of normal Star Destroyers), far more Jedi than Revan had and commanders that can act ruthless (e.g. Tarkin - we've seen that he's part of the Republic military already at the end of ROTS). Now add the CIS with basically infinite amounts of droids. And consider all outstanding individuals that belong to to the PT Republic and the CIS (quite some powerful Jedi, 2 Sith Lords, several Dark Jedi, Grievous and Durge) and throw in "Superweapons" like the Hovertank and the Dark Reaper.
The Mandalorians are pretty much pwned.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Horrible fighters ?
I start to hate the way the PT Jedi are treated like losers around here. Each of them is still capable of wasting dozens of droids / normal soldiers. We've seen a Padawan killing 5 or 6 Clone Troopers, we have seen Ki-Adi-Mundi getting betrayed, surprised and jumped by 6 Clone Troopers and still kill 2 of them. We have seen Yoda and Obi-Wan in ROTS defeating how many clones in front of the temple ? 10, 15, 20 ? If you consider informations given in the EU some of them have killed dozens or even hundreds of people in direct confrontation. And you call them horrible fighters ? What's a "good fighter" for you in this case ?Back to the topic:
Revan took the Mandalorians with 1/3 of the KotoR time Republic forces and maybe 50 % of the Jedi present at this time.Here we have the PT Republic with superior firepower and technology compared to KotoR time Republic (remember - the pride of the KotoR Rebulics navy was a ship which is 1/3 of the size of normal Star Destroyers), far more Jedi than Revan had and commanders that can act ruthless (e.g. Tarkin - we've seen that he's part of the Republic military already at the end of ROTS). Now add the CIS with basically infinite amounts of droids. And consider all outstanding individuals that belong to to the PT Republic and the CIS (quite some powerful Jedi, 2 Sith Lords, several Dark Jedi, Grievous and Durge) and throw in "Superweapons" like the Hovertank and the Dark Reaper.
The Mandalorians are pretty much pwned.
An average CIS cruiser is only 200 meters bigger then a Republic ship from the Kotor times.. Who from all we have heard were not as good as the Mandelorian ships. But even if they were just as good it wouldn't really be much of a problem.
We have more skilled Mandelorians, the CIS isn't even a challenge when 1.2 million clones could destroy them. The Mandelorians could easily be in the billions of soldiers. They would slaughter the CIS. Yeah sure the Jedi will be a challenge, but the Jedi are bad generals at best and would get slaughtered by superior tactics weapons and great cruelty. The other side of the war? You are going to tell me they are somehow great?
They got beaten by 1.2 million clones lead by generals who don't even know what outflanking is. Let alone stand are able to do something like that succesfully.
Just look at the battle of Kashyyyk or Geonosis, both were terrible tactical battles and yet both were won. The Mandelorians have even greater troops and are far greater tacticians. The CIS and the Republic are as good as dead, unless one of their generals or sith lords is so great that he can kill entire army's alone...
Plus, the Mandalorians wouldn't have any ethical restrictions. Canderous pretty much says that any planet that was harbouring Republic agents was glassed.
The PT Republic has never fought any truly ferocious total war. The CIS were under the domination of the leader of the Republic. Palpatine would not have let Dooku curbstomp the Republic.
The Mandalorians would have no such restrictions, they would glass all of the Republic planets.
Not only that, the CIS would not be able to stand up to the Mandalorians too.
Mandalorians > Skimpy Battle Droids
Originally posted by Darth Traya
Plus, the Mandalorians wouldn't have any ethical restrictions. Canderous pretty much says that any planet that was harbouring Republic agents was glassed.The PT Republic has never fought any truly ferocious total war. The CIS were under the domination of the leader of the Republic. Palpatine would not have let Dooku curbstomp the Republic.
Indeed, but would not those restrictions on total war be lifted when Palpatine faces an enemy that isn't his puppet? Do you remember what happened to Alderaan?
Technological advancement and the might of the CIS and Grand Army of the Republic outweighs a single civilization, no matter how warlike and skilled they were.
Everyone here makes it sound like PT Jedi have no training what so ever. They were basically defeat on Geonosis because they were out numbered like 200 to 20,000 maybe more. Let's see KOTOR Jedi do any better with such great numbers. 1,200,000 clones defeated the CIS? I'm pretty sure they made more clones in order to defend the many systems under the Republic plus the people in the Republic systems out number the Mandalorians.
Originally posted by IKC
Indeed, but would not those restrictions on total war be lifted when Palpatine faces an enemy that isn't his puppet? Do you remember what happened to Alderaan?Technological advancement and the might of the CIS and Grand Army of the Republic outweighs a single civilization, no matter how warlike and skilled they were.
Hm, that was a post completely devoid of logic. We are not arguing whether or not the GE could win. Unless I am sorely mistaken, the Republic did not have the DS!
Originally posted by Jack O'Neil
Everyone here makes it sound like PT Jedi have no training what so ever. They were basically defeat on Geonosis because they were out numbered like 200 to 20,000 maybe more. Let's see KOTOR Jedi do any better with such great numbers. 1,200,000 clones defeated the CIS? I'm pretty sure they made more clones in order to defend the many systems under the Republic plus the people in the Republic systems out number the Mandalorians.
So what? Are you trying to say that the civilians would fight against the Mandalorians? They would lose badly. You cannot compare elite military fighters to an indisciplined rabble.
Secondly, the Jedi on Geonosis were bad. Yes, they managed to mash up some Battle Droids, but it was their use of Niman that made them crap.
Oh and KotOR Jedi would have done a lot better in that situation.
Originally posted by Darth Traya
[B]Hm, that was a post completely devoid of logic. We are not arguing whether or not the GE could win. Unless I am sorely mistaken, the Republic did not have the DS!
That was cute how you attempted to demean me, but I wasn't arguing for the Empire either. However, given that Palpatine is the head of both sides of the Clone War, there's nothing stopping him from committing total war with these forces. The Death Star is irrelevant to what I said.