The outcome would remain the same for KOTOR Jedi or PT Jedi.
And it worked with America in the Revolutionary War. Trained British army vs. Untrained American army and who won that? It's amazing how well people can learn the art of war in short periods of time or do you not know about the Civil War or World War II? and don't say that has nothing to do here because it does. The Empire was the prime example of what the world would be like if Hitler won World War II.
Originally posted by Jack O'Neil
The outcome would remain the same for KOTOR Jedi or PT Jedi.And it worked with America in the Revolutionary War. Trained British army vs. Untrained American army and who won that? It's amazing how well people can learn the art of war in short periods of time or do you not know about the Civil War or World War II? and don't say that has nothing to do here because it does. The Empire was the prime example of what the world would be like if Hitler won World War II.
How well people can learn the art of war within short times? Without the French, the British would have won.
Anyway, why the example? I can't see the relevance.
The Frence played a small role in the outcome on the war. They came very late into it and it just basically forced Britian to surrender.
WWII:
America gathered more then 10 million people to fight the war and they all had little training and yet they whipped out German and Japanese forces
Civil War:
The Union gathered 500,000 soldiers and gave them short training periods and they defeated the CSA.
Now it will take longer for the Mand. to reach planets giving the Republic and CIS plenty of time to gather aid and create a well trained army.
Originally posted by Jack O'Neil
The Frence played a small role in the outcome on the war. They came very late into it and it just basically forced Britian to surrender.
WWII:
America gathered more then 10 million people to fight the war and they all had little training and yet they whipped out German and Japanese forcesCivil War:
The Union gathered 500,000 soldiers and gave them short training periods and they defeated the CSA.Now it will take longer for the Mand. to reach planets giving the Republic and CIS plenty of time to gather aid and create a well trained army.
What the hell? Clones take years to mature. Not only that, why the hell would it take the Mandalorians ages to get anywhere? You make it sound like they have extremely slow ships.
And? The Mandalorians are a warrior race.
Not only that, on Malachor V where they were outnumbered five to one, facing the tactical genius of Revan and cornered, the Republic still nearly lost the battle.
The Mandalorians also showed tactical adeptitude themselves, they launched a three pronged attack on the Republic with impeccable timing, which according to Canderous, split the Republic in two.
The Republic has come a new long way since then. And Greivous, who spent his entire life in wars, would be able to dealthe Mandalorians terrible blows with his experience on the battle field. You got Clones, Droids, Wookies, Huks, Kaleeshs, and a bunch of people vs. Mandalorians. Plus all the others races that helped the Republic and CIS I didn't mention.
Originally posted by Jack O'Neil
The Republic has come a new long way since then. And Greivous, who spent his entire life in wars, would be able to dealthe Mandalorians terrible blows with his experience on the battle field. You got Clones, Droids, Wookies, Huks, Kaleeshs, and a bunch of people vs. Mandalorians. Plus all the others races that helped the Republic and CIS I didn't mention.
A long way? The KotOR era Republic was quite militarised compared to the PT Republic. Oh, and the Republic then had "a bunch of people" too, but until Revan entered the conflict, they were bulldozing the Republic.
Grievous spent his entire time in wars? True, but so did the Mandalorians.
Originally posted by Darth Traya
Unless I am sorely mistaken, the Republic did not have the DS!
I hate to burst your bubble, but the Tarkin did already have the Death Star Prototype by the end of ROTS as we can see the first Death Star being built at the end of ROTS.
Now, there are a few things that the Mandalorians WILL lose it. Namely, all formes of space combat.
Now, let me tell you why.
First, lets compare ship length.
The Mandalorian and Republic ships must be relatively equal because the Republic was able to wage a war against them effectively.
The most powerful Sith Military ship was 600 meters long(Levithan). This ship was more powerful than most, if not all Republic ships. Even one of the earliest PT Republic ships was 752 meters long(Acclamator).
Remember, this is ship length, not mass, which will be far more in the Republics favor, but is much more complicated.
Now, the Leviathan was equipped with 20 quadlasers, 2 tractor beam projectors, 4 gravity well projectors, and 4 turbolasers.
Sounds impressive, but lets compare it to one of the weaker Republic Capital Ships.
12 quadturbolasers, 24 laser canons, and 4 missle tubes.
The Leviathan has more regular lasers, but it lacks missles and has far fewer turbolasers.
We also know that KOTOR-era turbolasers are weaker than PT-era ships because the Acclamator was the first ship capable of commiting base-delta-zero on it's own. In KOTOR it takes an entire fleet to destroy every building over two stories high; a job that is dozens of times easier than BDZ.
THe Leviathan also carries two squadrons of star fighters. This is more than the Acclamator, but Sith Star Fighters lack torpedos which is the only way for a starfighter to do real damage to a capital ship.
Overall, the Acclamator will rip the Leviathan apart. The Leviathan is a FLAGSHIP, while there were dozens of Acclamators. REmember that the Acclamator is far from the most powerful Republic ship too.
Originally posted by Fishy
An average CIS cruiser is only 200 meters bigger then a Republic ship from the Kotor times.. Who from all we have heard were not as good as the Mandelorian ships. But even if they were just as good it wouldn't really be much of a problem.
And the Republic ships are twice as big as the ships in KotoR times and if you have a look at the starting sequence of ROTS you can see one of the capital ship making one CIS cruiser explode with a single shot (a blue beam that seems to be more powerful than the normal turbolasers).
We have more skilled Mandelorians, the CIS isn't even a challenge when 1.2 million clones could destroy them.
First off: The CIS was (indirectly) under the control of the same person that did control the Republic. The CIS didn't have the intention to win so you can't say that 1.2 million clones could destroy them. And even if the CIS wanted to win - they didn't only have 1.2 million clones but 10,000 Jedi against them. What numbers of people did Revan command when he owned the Mandalorians ?
The Mandelorians could easily be in the billions of soldiers.
Or they could only be a million or 100,000 or 10,000 of them. We don't know. But seing that in KotoR times 1/3 of the Republic forces and maybe 50 % of the Jedi were enough to defeat them I don't think there were that many.
They would slaughter the CIS. Yeah sure the Jedi will be a challenge, but the Jedi are bad generals at best and would get slaughtered by superior tactics weapons and great cruelty. The other side of the war? You are going to tell me they are somehow great?
You think that 1.2 million clone troopers (being exact physical copies of Jango Fett) including ARCtroopers that were personally trained by Jango Fett a threat ?
Superior tactics ? May I remind you that Grievous tactics are said to be "perfect" and may I remind you that when it comes to "cruelty" the Sith and Dark Jedi of the CIS (and Grievous as well) won't be behind the Mandalorians ?
And superior weapons ? Yeah...right...4000 years of technical development and the mandalorians have superior weapons. Not even talking about things like the Dark Reaper, Hovertanks and spaceships that will totally screw them.
They got beaten by 1.2 million clones lead by generals who don't even know what outflanking is. Let alone stand are able to do something like that succesfully.
They lost on purpose.
Just look at the battle of Kashyyyk or Geonosis, both were terrible tactical battles and yet both were won. The Mandelorians have even greater troops and are far greater tacticians. The CIS and the Republic are as good as dead, unless one of their generals or sith lords is so great that he can kill entire army's alone...
Let me see...the combined forces of CIS and Republic have 1.2 million clones, nearly infinite amount of droids, ruthless and capable commanders and some people able to use battle meditation. Still they lose ?
Plus, the Mandalorians wouldn't have any ethical restrictions. Canderous pretty much says that any planet that was harbouring Republic agents was glassed.
Again: The CIS includes Dark Jedi + Sith Lords and you're talking about ethical restrictions ?
Secondly, the Jedi on Geonosis were bad. Yes, they managed to mash up some Battle Droids, but it was their use of Niman that made them crap.
Yes. Sure. They all were totally crap. Have a look at the background action in the Geonosis arena. You will see that most of the Jedi are fighting 5+ droids at any time while being confronted with heavy weapons (that nice Geonosian weapons), the beast that are still running around in the arena and stuff like that. And you want to tell me that they are "bad" or "crap".
"Hey look. Those guys are getting creamed being outnumbered 20 to 1 taking hundrets of opponents with them."
"Yeah. What losers."
Oh and KotOR Jedi would have done a lot better in that situation.
Yeah. Right. We have seen KotoR Jedi:
- running away from 4 soldiers (Kavar)
- getting killed by a small bunch of Hutt bandits (yes...guys like the ones Luke killed in the beginning of ROTJ) (Andur Sunrider)
- getting pwned by manipulated protocol droids (Arca Jeth)
- getting creamed by Krath War Droids (Battle of Deneba)
- getting outduelled by minor Force users (Jedi on the SF)
- getting instakilled by a single Sith Witch (Masters on Dantooine)
- getting creamed by their former students (Nadd's master and Vodo)
- getting killed by Sith Assassins (who don't even have to be "active" force users)
They died in the same pathetic ways the PT Jedi did so what makes you think they are better ? Have we seen them deflecting blaster bolts from multiple opponents at once ? Have we seen them lifting stuff with several hundret tons of weight around ? Have we seen them disabling droids with a single use force powers ? Have we seen a single Jedi surviving a duel with a Sith Lord ? Have we seen KotoR padawans bashing multiple opponents armed with blasters ?
I don't think so. So what actually makes them better. The fact that they lived 4,000 years before the PT Jedi ? In fact I've seen nothing that shows that the KotoR era Jedi are superior to the PT Jedi (Sith are a different story).
I am back to neutral. I realize now that the Mandalorians, as good as they may be, don't stand a chance in space combat. Also, the Republic has a crap load of money for supplies... and so do the sepretists (Munnilist alone is super rich). People like GG, Asaaj, some/most of the Jedi Knights and Masters, Durge (he would love to get payback on the Mandalorians), Jango, Maul (if we are counting him), and Dooku are matches for even the best Mandalorian soldiers in ground combat. I need a true number of Mandalorian slodiers before I can make up my mind.
Originally posted by Jack O'Neil
The Frence played a small role in the outcome on the war. They came very late into it and it just basically forced Britian to surrender.
WWII:
America gathered more then 10 million people to fight the war and they all had little training and yet they whipped out German and Japanese forcesCivil War:
The Union gathered 500,000 soldiers and gave them short training periods and they defeated the CSA.Now it will take longer for the Mand. to reach planets giving the Republic and CIS plenty of time to gather aid and create a well trained army.
lol
Glad to see American history is still as obfuscated as possible.
Americans never fielded ten million people, kid. Hell, the Germans and the Russians were the only Western powers to field near (and technically over) that amount, and in the case of the Germans it was never all at once. And the Americans had EXTENSIVE training. Go watch Band of Brothers or read a book on the 101st Airborne Division. They slaved and worked themselves into shape and training because if they didn't they would have been slaughtered like cattle. And these aren't even mudcrunchers; they're parachute units. And saying they "whipped out (I'm assuming you meant wiped out) the German and Japanese forces" is ignorance at its best. German troops had fought since 1937-38 and starting in 41 they were fighting on multiple fronts, a country that is the size of Montana. German troops were already losing a battle of attrition in the east to the regrouping Russian forces and the only reason the Allied forces took Normandy is because Rommel wasn't in charge and there was no armor on the beach.
As for the Japanese, it was the bomb that broke their back, not the costly island hopping technique that cost more American lives than an average day in western France. This had little to do with American numbers or training and everything to do with the Japanese having been bombed into submission... twice.
As for the Civil War, you might wanna go read a book on it, cuz the North was in a position to win the war five years before it happened. The South had no manufacturing or raw materials anywhere on the level of the North. Hell, they couldn't even provide boots for their troops and had to steal them from dead northern troopers. This again had nothing to do with any extensive training and everything to do with the South losing the war before it even began. What solidified the defeat of the South was Grant's siege of the important Vicksburg and Sherman's March to the Sea.
There.