OK, Burton is a moron when it comes to Batman...

Originally posted by Bat Dude
HE DIDN'T KILL THE FIRE BREATHER! Why do you assume that guy died? That's the least likely of any of his "killed" list of actually dying, yet you keep assuming he died?

And he didn't kill Penguin, again, I don't see any evidence that Batman purposely tried to kill Penguin. It was bad luck that Penguin pressed the button when he was next to the window, but Batman didn't plan for it to happen like that.

I'll give you Axis, and I'll give you the guy in the bell tower, and just for kicks, I'll even give you Joker too (even though I don't think what Batman did sealed Joker's fate. I think Joker did himself) But there's no evidence for anyone else having been killed.

-Context clues point toward the bomb being fake.
-The Fire Breather was all around snow and wasn't shown to have been limp or dead. We can assume he lived. It was brutal, but Batman isn't a cupcake like Superman, you know. He's been pretty brutal in the mainline comics before.
-Penguin pressed the button and had the misfortune of being too close to the window when the bats stunned him. Batman didn't plan it that way.

The first paragraph had nothing to do with the fire breather. I was just telling you that Batman never killed anyone in The Dark Knight Returns. But besides the fire breather, he killed other people.

I am new to this website and this thread has been going for years

i was 1 year old when Burtons batman came out and i remember watching his 2 batman films when i was a kid and to me they are great films sure when watching them now micheal keatings mellow performence as batman and the joker shooting down the bat plane with an insanely long revolver with one shot but they are Dark and gothic and thats what i love about them the george clooney & val kilmer bat films weren't that far away from taking batman back to POW KABLAMM
days the riddler in that film has to be the campest superhero villian of all time but the Batman Begins film is AWESOME iv'e not seen the Dark Night yet but Christian bale is excellent in that film my favorite Batman film by far

Ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight 😈

i think burton is the best director of all time and his batman movies are just proof of that f..k nolan

I wouldnt go that far but you lot talking shit about Burton need to get a grip. From what I understand he put Batman back on the map. Hell I wasn't interested in getting Batman comics until I saw Batman.

Originally posted by freakybinx
i think burton is the best director of all time and his batman movies are just proof of that f..k nolan

??really? your opinion. i like nolans better. but i still enjoy burtons.
the other 2 after burtons sucked big time.

Sheldon said it best
"It might also interest you to know that Wil Wheaton currently ranks sixth on my All-Time Enemies list, between director Joel Schumacher, who nearly destroyed the Batman movie franchise, and Billy Sparks, who lived down the street from me and put dog poop on the handles of my bicycle."

Originally posted by Deadline
I wouldnt go that far but you lot talking shit about Burton need to get a grip. From what I understand he put Batman back on the map. Hell I wasn't interested in getting Batman comics until I saw Batman.

I never said that Burton's films are bad; they're just not good adaptations. But just because they're not good adaptation doesn't mean that they're not good movies on their own. As just movies, they're fine and enjoyable to watch (well, Batman Returns isn't IMO. BUt the 1989 movie is.). But as adaptations, they're not very good. And what the people on this thread are doing is that they're listing valid arguments to why they are far from the source material.

I also enjoy the 1989 movie due to growing up with it. Jack Nicholson is fun to watch and Keaton does a great job at capturing the terrifying image of Batman (but fails as Bruce Wayne 🙁 ). But it wasn't a good adaptation.

And I'm not trolling or being a fanboy either. Have you seen me insult someone else's opinion here? Have you seen me say stuff such as "Burton needs to burn in a pit of hell"? No. I'm just listing reasons to why Burton doesn't know anything about Batman without going too extreme about it and without throwing insults at Burton. In other words, I'm voicing my opinion. And I'm allowed to (as well as everyone else here; including the ones who prefer Burton's films over Nolan's films).

double post

After watching TDK i dont like the classic batman films anymore. The first two where good but TDK blows them out of the water

Agreed. I felt the same way after watching Batman Begins before seeing TDK for the first time. It was eclipsed. Not a knock on Begins, just a testament to TDK's greatness.

As far as Burton goes, he had some admirable things in his films. Plus, Nolan had guns on the Batpod, what's the big deal?

I wouldn't call him a moron, but he certainly never really understood what Batman or his villains were about.

Originally posted by spidermanrocks
I never said that Burton's films are bad; they're just not good adaptations. But just because they're not good adaptation doesn't mean that they're not good movies on their own. As just movies, they're fine and enjoyable to watch (well, Batman Returns isn't IMO. BUt the 1989 movie is.). But as adaptations, they're not very good. And what the people on this thread are doing is that they're listing valid arguments to why they are far from the source material.

I also enjoy the 1989 movie due to growing up with it. Jack Nicholson is fun to watch and Keaton does a great job at capturing the terrifying image of Batman (but fails as Bruce Wayne 🙁 ). But it wasn't a good adaptation.

And I'm not trolling or being a fanboy either. Have you seen me insult someone else's opinion here? Have you seen me say stuff such as "Burton needs to burn in a pit of hell"? No. I'm just listing reasons to why Burton doesn't know anything about Batman without going too extreme about it and without throwing insults at Burton. In other words, I'm voicing my opinion. And I'm allowed to (as well as everyone else here; including the ones who prefer Burton's films over Nolan's films).

The Dark Knight isn't a good adaption either...

It's closer to Batman Beyond and James Bond than it is Batman lore. Morgan Freeman is an aged Bruce Wayne / Q, providing Bale (Terry / Bond) with his arsenal. Nolan's Batman is not a detective. He is not an inventor. He isn't a genius. He is a billionaire who got some ninja training and then acquired (read😖tole) military tech from his own company.

And nothing against Ledger's performance, because it was great, but Nolan's Joker was so far off the mark that it was virtually a different character.

Burton did a lot for Batman. Before I watched Batman Returns I can't say I was ever a Batman fan. In my all time rankings
Begins, TDK and Batman Returns are the gospel on movie Batman.

Who can forget Michelle Pfeiffer's portrayal of Catwoman or Devito's Penguin?

Burton got 89' right, it was a film with well balanced themes and if you can excuse the deviations from Batman lore you can enjoy it. Same way with Returns but with Returns the mood shifted to something just too gothic and things got a bit out of hand. Like how Catwomen came into being, or the protrayal of Penguin as a snarling slob who bites people- such an extreme portayal of the character.

There is also a comparison with Nolan and Burton in this very sense.

The implausible nature of Catwomen and how she comes into being mirrors the implausibility of Nolan's Harvey Dent/ Two-Face, having his face burnt down to the bone and still being able to talk. The skewed portrayal of The Penguin mirrors how Nolan took The Joker and made him a lot more outwardly grim and vicious and removed the levity in him.

When you're talking villains making them more extreme doesn't hurt in my book. The fact that Devito's Penguin was such a psycho made him a better villain. Biting off people's faces and wanting to kill all the first born kids in Gotham, that puts him in Gotham's wall of infamy forever. That's a fun villain, more fun than the more cultured and tamed Penguin we see on average.

Originally posted by Allankles
When you're talking villains making them more extreme doesn't hurt in my book. The fact that Devito's Penguin was such a psycho made him a better villain. Biting off people's faces and wanting to kill all the first born kids in Gotham, that puts him in Gotham's wall of infamy forever. That's a fun villain, more fun than the more cultured and tamed Penguin we see on average.

I realise that and like DeVito's performance for what he did in his own interpretation but consider this; what's the point in making The Penguin like he way he did when you have other villains more suited to that level of viciousness? Villains like Killer Croc, Mr Zsasz, Cornelius Stirk etc.

Theres's no reason to change a outwardly mild-mannered, subtle and devious character like The Penguin into a slobbish monster when other villains could fit that role more easily. Same for Nolan's Joker, who from what I can tell (I don't want to watch TDK) from various sources is just Mr Zsasz in clown make-up.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
I realise that and like DeVito's performance for what he did in his own interpretation but consider this; what's the point in making The Penguin like he way he did when you have other villains more suited to that level of viciousness? Villains like Killer Croc, Mr Zsasz, Cornelius Stirk etc.

Theres's no reason to change a outwardly mild-mannered, subtle and devious character like The Penguin into a slobbish monster when other villains could fit that role more easily. Same for Nolan's Joker, who from what I can tell (I don't want to watch TDK) from various sources is just Mr Zsasz in clown make-up.

because none of those guys really would have fit the penguin's role. shreck was trying to get him to be a political figure, and that would have never worked with zsasz or cros.

love that line about joker though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
because none of those guys really would have fit the penguin's role. shreck was trying to get him to be a political figure, and that would have never worked with zsasz or cros.

love that line about joker though.

Well perhaps they could have had Shreck as the aspiring political villain with the proper Penguin character pulling strings in the background; like creating havoc for Shreck to exploit in his political messages. Then Catwomen could have been The Penguin's hired troublemaker or thief, giving her a bit more to do in the movie.

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Well perhaps they could have had Shreck as the aspiring political villain with the proper Penguin character pulling strings in the background; like creating havoc for Shreck to exploit in his political messages. Then Catwomen could have been The Penguin's hired troublemaker or thief, giving her a bit more to do in the movie.

still though, that would have required someone with intelligence and an ability to manipulate people. penguin has that, imo.

Penguin is a weasle. He's highly manipulative.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

And nothing against Ledger's performance, because it was great, but Nolan's Joker was so far off the mark that it was virtually a different character.

Going overboard again mate.

Burtons Joker was great for its time, Heaths Joker was near perfect for his time.