Ok here we go. Finally managed to download X-men adventures which talks of the end of the previous reality and how the creation of Galactus and 616 came about. It is canon as its events are detailed in the Phoenix bio ("""In the dying moments of the previous universe, the Force saved all existence from eternal damnation, enabling Eternity to preserve the humanoid Galan, ensuring his re-creation as Galactus""😉 and Galactus' bio.("""Saved by the Phoenix Force of the dying universe, the sentient energy spoke to Galan as it brought him into the Egg""😉
As aforementioned in the natural scheme of things Phoenix collapses all reality via the M'kraan crystal/White Hot Room from which it itself is derived from. All reality is absorbed into the white hot room via the crystal and reality is created anew when the Crystal spews out this energy back into the void as the Big Bang
Heres a quote from Uncanny X-men 108:
""""""""""""Nothing will be spared as the power of this near-infinite mass reaches out across the universe pulling stars and planets from their orbits with monstrous ease....All plunge helplessly down the insatiable gravity well of the N-Galaxy, their mass adding to its gravity, gravity attracting more mass until reality itself begins to tear apart. Something has to give. Something does--in an explosion that scatters stellar mass out across a new virgin universe. Where there was destruction, now there is creation and where there was darkness now there is light"""""""""""
The Phoenix Manifestation is the embodiment of the Big Bang, reborn into reality in this event.
The Phoenix Manifestation is the very energies of creation from which all life in a universe springs from and is sustained by, the life force of a universe, as stated by the canon comic from which the bio gains its info:
That is canon so theres no arguing with it and it also fits in perfectly with the other info ive presented saying
Phoenix is the energies of creation:
Phoenix is the power source of the universe without which all life would die and not the smallest potential for life would exist:
Here is the end of the previous universe:
As the M'kraan crystal consumes all reality Phoenix saves all life from eternal damnation so that the cycle can continue unabaited.
She saves Galan enabling him to bond with the new Eternity in the Egg where they were both to be gestated until the point of the Big Bang upon which we know 616 was created and the Phoenix Force as we know it was reborn into reality anew as per its mythological namesake.
An interesting thing to make note of is how even in the previous universe Jean Grey was linked to the Phoenix. This lends support to Classic X-mens ststements that Jean Grey is forever linked to the power for she herself is carved from the Phoenix itself and as such it is her birth right (hers and those of her genetic line) to wield the power.
This itself is supported by Endsong and the bios comments:
""The Force realized that Jean was one of its missing pieces, its prime host, and so it merged with her fully."""
Who are you talking to? Read the handbook!
Seems to say like the handbook Phoenix was born in the big bang 🙂
cool problem solved.
http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excalibur052p103hp.jpg
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Seems to say like the handbook Phoenix was born in the big bang 🙂cool problem solved.
http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=excalibur052p103hp.jpg
Handbook says Phoenix was REBORN in the Big Bang. It wasnt created during the Big Bang. It is the energies involved in that event as stated on panel. When these energies are expelled from the crystal Phoenix is reborn into the void. Everything fits in just fine. 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Handbook says Phoenix was REBORN in the Big Bang. It wasnt created during the Big Bang. It is the energies involved in that event as stated on panel. When these energies are expelled from the crystal Phoenix is reborn into the void. Everything fits in just fine. 😉
"Reborn in", hang on so the big bang created the phoenix.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
"Reborn in", hang on so the big bang created the phoenix.
The Big Bang in Marvel is the expulsion of energies from the white hot room into the pre creation void. Those energies as stated on panel are Phoenix. The Phoenix as we know it is reborn into reality during that event. It is the very energies of creation. 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Big Bang in Marvel is the expulsion of energies from the white hot room into the pre creation void. Those energies as stated on panel are Phoenix. The Phoenix as we know it is reborn into reality during that event. It is the very energies of creation. 😉
Thats your interpretation of one writers work. The panels can be interpreted differently and other comics have shown different origin "snapshots" including the cosmic bunny.
🙂
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Thats your interpretation of one writers work. The panels can be interpreted differently and other comics have shown different origin "snapshots" including the cosmic bunny.🙂
Cosmic bunny isnt a retcon. It didnt give a different nature for the Big Bang. It did however give it a schedule. One which may or may not be supported by other writers we'll have to wait and see. 😄
Either way Phoenix is the embodiment of the Big Bang that derives from the White Hot Room into pre creation void every creation cycle. That is shown in the comics and is supported in the bio.
Phoenix is the life force of the universe and the power which sustains all life and potential for life.
Jean Grey is Phoenix Force in human form. The prime host/true avatar
Its all good. 😎
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Phoenix is powered by life and the bunny needed no Phoenix, it's all interpretation.
Nope Phoenix consumes the energy allocated for future life by becoming a life form itself within the closed universe system Marvel used. Thats why Phoenix solved the problem by returning to its natural state (i.e losing the sentience it had evolved.) whilst still allowing avatars to tap into its power. Thats all stated my friend in Excalibur 64. Not debatable. 😄
Whats this talk about the Bunny. Nothing in that comic said that the Big Bang wasnt Phoenix therefore as its canon that Phoenix is the Big Bang there was no retcon.
You have nothing to stand on my friend.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
So Phoenix depends on the future life force, the force is thereforre parasitical 🙂
Doesnt depend on it at all. Where did u get that? 😕
I dont think you're comprehending what im saying my friend. The Force consumes it as a result of sentience within a closed system where life feeds upon life, however in its natural state it doesnt as it is "without form touching all that lives with neither feeling or awareness" "of time and space and yet beyond" It fixed the problem by returning to its natural state however avatars were still able to tap into its power. 🙂
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Oh I comprehend what you're saying I jsut don't think you understand the handbook. 😉
What is there to not understand. Its all stated plain as day. It states that Phoenix is the life force of the universe, the energies of creation and that without it there would be no life.
Ive also shown how it doesnt state that Phoenix is powered by or dependant on future life i pointed out your misinterpretation by quoting from the comic book from which the handbook got its info on that particular point.
Life is dependant on Phoenix its power fuels creation.
Jean Grey is the Phoenix in human form.
Those points are made clear when you look at the handbook and look at the comics. Youve forgotten to do the latter. 🙁
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What is there to not understand. Its all stated plain as day.
I agree but your fanboyism blinds you to it. Anyway thats my interpretation.
No smilie needed - Phoenix is made in the big bang (fact)
Phoenix depends upon the life force of the unborn to manifest (fact)
By manifesting Phoenix kills unborns in the future (fact)
When Phoenix has been destroyed and/or damaged in various universes, it has not killed the inhabitants (fact)
Keep the faith 🙂
Stay Whirly 🤘
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I agree but your fanboyism blinds you to it. Anyway thats my interpretation.No smilie needed - Phoenix is made in the big bang (fact)
Dont hate because you have no ground to stand on.
Phoenix is reborn in the event known as the Big Bang, the expulsion of the energies of creation from the white hot room into the pre creation void. Crux of the matter: Phoenix is those energies. FACT
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Phoenix depends upon the life force of the unborn to manifest (fact)
Incorrect. Phoenix is present in a living universe at all times. Its natural state is "without form touching all that lives with neither feeling or awareness" "of time and space and yet beyond" when within reality Phoenix depends on the life force allocated for future life to attain sentience. Very different mate.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
By manifesting Phoenix kills unborns in the future (fact)
Incorrect. For reasons why refer to the above.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
When Phoenix has been destroyed and/or damaged in various universes, it has not killed the inhabitants (fact)
Can easily be explained away my friend because at the end of the day as stated in canon comics ( the very samewhich the handbook refers to) the Phoenix Force is the life force of the universe and is without form and encompasses all that lives in its natural state. To be without the Phoenix as stated on panel is to be without life, not the other way around.
Phoenix is the mains supply to a universe. Within a reality the focal point of this power is the Phoenix raptor which we associate with the Force. Anyone who manifests this raptor is said to wield the Phoenix Force although that doesnt mean they wield at anytime the full power of creation they can instead tap into the energy reservoir of creation that in current continuity is Phoenix.
Destroying the raptor or a host will not destroy all life in a universe because they are not the sum total of the Phoenix Force in one place. If they were then there would be no life anywhere else. Stands to reason my friend. They are merely focal points for the power which is supported by the fact that the Phoenix Force said to Rachel in Excalibur 64 that it is both of time and space and beyond.
That explanation deals with your queries. Is it fact? Nope, just a well supported theory however that doesnt change the fact that as stated on panel Phoenix is "the energies of creation", "the life force of the universe incarnate" and that without the Phoenix Force there would be "Ultimate extinction...an infinite void wherein exists not the smallest potential for life"
This is all just your interpretation again and not really what the handbook or the bunny means in many others opinion. Its fair enough you think your thing but stop trying to pass it off as canon. It's simply not it's you're interpretaion. Many including me have shown numerous equally vaalid ideas, the difference we don't try to pass them off as canon as we know comics often contradict each other as do writers.
Why should anyone hate? I didn't leave the forum for two weeks because my character had been shown to be not what I had been making it out to be. A very strange thing to say. 😐
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
This is all just your interpretation again and not really what the handbook or the bunny means in many others opinion. Its fair enough you think your thing but stop trying to pass it off as canon. It's simply not it's you're interpretaion. Many including me have shown numerous equally vaalid ideas, the difference we don't try to pass them off as canon as we know comics often contradict each other as do writers.Why should anyone hate? I didn't leave the forum for two weeks because my character had been shown to be not what I had been making it out to be. A very strange thing to say. 😐
Whirly at the end of the day the handbook and the comics state what they state. You have interpreted what the handbook says in a way which is not supported anywhere on panel. My interpretation is supported by all accounts.
It actually states that Phoenix is the life force of the universe. It actually states that without Phoenix life wouldnt exist. It actually states that Phoenix is both of time and space and yet beyond. That is not interpretation that is the relating of fact. The handbooks dont say anything at all which contradicts those facts. Instead they have have statements which can be interpreted to support those facts.
Youre lumping everything together as my interpretation and are not acknowledging the various examples of on panel evidence, by different writers, to be found in different titles which all state the same thing.
Its stated. Its not debatable. Thats the crux of the matter. Its not simply a case of my interpretation of the handbook versus yours. Its my interpretation coupled with conclusive on panel statements versus your unsupported opinion. 😉
