Iceman vs Flash

Originally posted by jrodslam
Which is still a bit iffy considering most times he still needs to build momentum to reach lightspeeds.

I don't think it's most times. It's writer based and inversely logical.

That is, if Flash wants to accomplish a high speed operating task, one that forces lots of starts, stops, turns, and reversals- such as building an entire bridge, disassembling a car, evacuating buildings or cities, or rebuilding entire towns- then Flash is free from the constraints of acceleration... but comic book writers- the poor scientists that they are- tend to force Flash to accelerate only if he's moving in a mosty straight-line over long distances, or travelling speed (this is the inverse of most characters with a FTL power-subset).

There are two factors in play:
- The first is that we tend towards consistent high showings of which there are enough instant acceleration examples.
- Even if we accept both types as showings as the rule, which is more relevant? Operational speeds, IMO, are immediately more relevant to a fight than travelling speeds, so Flash should have the acceleration default to that method of motion.

Originally posted by Demas
I don't think it's most times. It's writer based and inversely logical.

That is, if Flash wants to accomplish a high speed operating task, one that forces lots of starts, stops, turns, and reversals- such as building an entire bridge, disassembling a car, evacuating buildings or cities, or rebuilding entire towns- then Flash is free from the constraints of acceleration... but comic book writers- the poor scientists that they are- tend to force Flash to accelerate only if he's moving in a mosty straight-line over long distances, or travelling speed (this is the inverse of most characters with a FTL power-subset).

There are two factors in play:
- The first is that we tend towards consistent high showings of which there are enough instant acceleration examples.
- Even if we accept both types as showings as the rule, which is more relevant? Operational speeds, IMO, are immediately more relevant to a fight than travelling speeds, so Flash should have the acceleration default to that method of motion.

From the instances where ive seen, it is most times.

Even when not having to make stops, turns, reversals, but running straight, he needs a momentum build up to hit lightspeed. I wouldnt expect him to do so if there were obstacles such as the things you mentioned(building or fixing things or saving people).

What are the consistent high showings? Im not saying that there arent any of him doing instant acceleration, but not any which incude lightspeed. If you know of any and can prove it, then ill concede. I also agree that operational speeds in a fight are more imporatnt. However when instant IMP's get brought up, id have to disagree. With about a 10-20 foot distance between the 2 at the start of the fight, i have no doubts that Flash would get off a devastating move on Bobby and shatter him. No question. That doesnt end the fight however and it then gives time for Iceman to counter attack. That is when the real fight begins.

Originally posted by jrodslam
[B]Even when not having to make stops, turns, reversals, but running straight, he needs a momentum build up to hit lightspeed.

What are the consistent high showings? Im not saying that there arent any of him doing instant acceleration, but not any which incude lightspeed.

Another example would be Bart's impatience with light bulbs, literally running back and forth between the light-switch and the bulb a dozen times waiting for it to come on.

Another one is Wally's trick for appearing in two places at once, with one in costume and the other in plainclothes. He literally accelerates instantly, changes clothes, deccelerates, stands in place, then reverses direction, accelerates back, changes back into costume, deccelerates, and stands in place, doing this thousands of times per second to fool the eye, while using Speed Force tricks to keep friction, atmosphere, and his own mind undisturbed (imagine the bordem-level if there wasn't a degree of "autopilot" to his powers).

With about a 10-20 foot distance between the 2 at the start of the fight, i have no doubts that Flash would get off a devastating move on Bobby and shatter him. No question. That doesnt end the fight however and it then gives time for Iceman to counter attack. That is when the real fight begins.

Well I'm not touching this part of the discussion, I've said my piece on it earlier... I'm just addressing Flash's abilities.

There is a suped up version of Iceman and if its that one then advantage Bobby.Otherwise Bobby gets iced

Originally posted by Demas
No, that's the exact point. Every instance when he performs those movements is an example of instantaneous acceleration. There's no such thing as "building up momentum" for a reversal. Acceleration is a vectored value, you can't conserve it travelling along an opposite vector. So in every example of Flash operating at lightspeed or greater.

The most significant, ignoring operational ones as mentioned above, would be his time-travel/speed-dimension feats. Flash has been able to, even in-doors, leap into the speed-force dimension or time travel at will simply by running forward and shattering the super-luminal barrier. We know the acceleration to be incredible and virtually instantaneous as the feats occured indoors.

Another example would be Bart's impatience with light bulbs, literally running back and forth between the light-switch and the bulb a dozen times waiting for it to come on.

Another one is Wally's trick for appearing in two places at once, with one in costume and the other in plainclothes. He literally accelerates instantly, changes clothes, deccelerates, stands in place, then reverses direction, accelerates back, changes back into costume, deccelerates, and stands in place, doing this thousands of times per second to fool the eye, while using Speed Force tricks to keep friction, atmosphere, and his own mind undisturbed (imagine the bordem-level if there wasn't a degree of "autopilot" to his powers).

Well I'm not touching this part of the discussion, I've said my piece on it earlier... I'm just addressing Flash's abilities.

Im well aware of Flash's abilities and tricks, however it isnt quite relevant here. Unless hes dumping Bobby into the SF zone as soon as the fight starts that is. But thats out of character for him. So besides geting off the first move which will probably shatter Bobby, Wally will then be open for attack.

Listen. The Flash(Wally West) would beat the crap out of ice man. Flash posses powers that enable him to travel the world 20 times in less then 2 seconds (Proven in a comic). The Flash would just have to punch Ice Man. The Flash could punch Ice man hundreds maybe even thousands of times within seconds. The Flash would waste Ice Man in seconds if he wanted to. People underestimate The Flash becuase he makes jokes and becuse hes funny. He is one of the most powerful DC heros.

hahaha!! Homeboy, go back a few pages to where I started posting in here, and learn. Flash can't win by any means. Punching won't work, no speed trick will...
I think the best think for little gyus like us is to sit and watch silently, yo know? I shut up because the guys all know way more about the characters than me, and clearly I know more than you, so... if I were you, in order to not end up looking stupid, take my advice, ok Nick? (I dont mean to insult you in any way, by the way... 😄)

Lol. Honestly ive read nearly all the Impulse(Bart Allen), Wally West, Barry Allen, and Jay Garrick. I know what they are capible of. The Flash would waste Ice Man. Ice Man couldint even be able to touch flash, let alone see him. Ice Man would be wasted. If you dont believe me read some Flash comics.

Don't worry, I have, I'm saying g back and learn a bit more about what I'm talking about. Ice isn't gonna lose, I in fact posted several good scenarios for why Flash should win, and still, its dead locked.

Lol. Thanks for your comment mate.

Lord-of-Dreams whos your favourite Flash?

umm, if you mean guy in flash suit, i'd say wally... i just know ihm the best lol, my fav. dc speedster though is Impulse, he's just... so impulsive... lol

🥷

Pretty much every Flash can beat Iceman 😐

Seriously Flash is WAY to fast for him to do anything to hurt him.

Besides if worse came to worse Flash could just run Iceman into the speed force 😄

Originally posted by Grimm22
Pretty much every Flash can beat Iceman 😐

Seriously Flash is WAY to fast for him to do anything to hurt him.

Besides if worse came to worse Flash could just run Iceman into the speed force 😄

Originally posted by superbatman86
And then he just teleports out.You know the whole one with all moisture thing.

That makes no sense 😐

The speed force is another dimension of sorts, you can just teleport out of it with moisture powers

Iceman essentially can exist as air moisture all over the place, meaning Flash could never really pull him into the Speed Force completely.

Originally posted by Accel
Iceman essentially can exist as air moisture all over the place, meaning Flash could never really pull him into the Speed Force completely.

Maybe not, but Iceman can not even hurt Flash, he's WAY to fast for him even to think about attacking 😉

Originally posted by Grimm22
Maybe not, but Iceman can not even hurt Flash, he's WAY to fast for him even to think about attacking 😉

Once Iceman is shattered, what will Flash be doing then? He doesnt know Bobby's consciousness is still around. Nor would Flash know Bobby can use the moisture thats inside his body to reform and kill him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Once Iceman is shattered, what will Flash be doing then? He doesnt know Bobby's consciousness is still around. Nor would Flash know Bobby can use the moisture thats inside his body to reform and kill him.

How do you know? 😐

Maybe Flash will run to the X-mansion and look up Iceman's stats on a computer or what not 😛