No, but he still had people like Saul Karath. You haven't proved how my explanation doesn't hold up.
Saul Karath was at the front and there is nothing to suggest he was in command of defending the Star Forge.
Radar, or any sensor for that matter, can't go through a planet. That is the entire point of coming in on the far side of the planet. It's been done before and you have no proof that it won't work this time.
and you think Revan doesn't realise that? Seriously glentract how stupid could he be? When he only has a little bit of an empire left, he's going to do everything he can to defend it. He isn't just going to sit around waiting for something to happen in a place he can see from the Star Forge. It would be freaking stupid, last time I checked he isn't.
What? He already knew that Revan was back and out for his blood. He would increase the defences. That and the defences Revan had put their when he first got it.
From what we can see Revan added no additional defences, he didn't think it was necessary because nobody could find the Star Forge. Malak knew Revan was coming, but telling his fleet to look out for a single ship that might come to there, it shows weakness... He would be foolish to do so. Still I am surprised he didn't add a few more defences there without it being to noticable.
Not like it matters, one person and a huge fleet are two completely different things.
Once the shield is down Revan is screwed no matter what. Also note that no sentient creature can stay on high alert for extended periods of time without a visible threat. Revan's troops will lose their edge.
Also note that they are under a constant thread, the Rebel Alliance that can't be to far away and is hunting for them, and they don't have to be on their highest alert, they just need to fly through a system, or perhaps place a few ships at strategic locations to make sure that they can see everything everywhere. Its not that hard to do you know, and it would be the first thing any general would do. You or Nai pointed out that everybody would logically send scouts first instead of the entire fleet, whats different about this situation? Except for it being Revan?
They first will send scouts with high powered sensors and a small strike force. Then a commando team goes in.
Which will make them know there is some kind of shield nothing more. The commando's would be spotted and their ships destroyed, if somehow they would land then the Sith fighter fleet could easily come after them and take them out when they are on the ground.
No, they know their is a shield and can detect the shield because of their sensors.
They might know there is a shield, but I doubt they would find out the location of the shield generator. Besides if you played Kotor you would know the Temple of Ancients just holds the codes. It can't disable the shield.
Projected trajectory. We have been using is all of the time with great accuracy.
Problem here is how do you know where everybody is going to land? Maybe they will all land at the same place, its possible.
I actually like Nai's idea of an entire army attacking which would easily be feasible, but I still like my idea better because the Rebels could do it with less casualties.The Rakata use sticks and wear no armor. They are not a threat as a single blaster shot can take them down. How many times do I have to explain this? No losses.
The Rancors were never encountered in groups larger than two, and if it is shot, say 300 times, it is going down(takes just a few seconds to shoot one that many times and the Rancors can be shot from far away because they are easy to see). No losses.
Mandalorians are horribly outnumbered and the Rebels have things like bioscanners which make older cloaking technology ineffective in their time and can see the Mandalrians from 1500 meters away. Why do you think cloaking technology was abandoned? Because in the 4000 years to the Rebels time, technology was made to make cloaks easily defeatable. Cloaking sheilds that can defeat this are rare and not the same ones the Mandaldalorians had. Few losses. Maybe 10.
So the Rebels are going to be checking for a rare and outdated cloacking technology when walking towards the base? If its hardly ever used if used at all its not going to be something you check for now is it? Even so... The total death rate would be higher then 10 at this time. But have it your way.
There are still 90 Rebels, so I suggest you stop making assumptions without any form of proof whatsoever.Are you telling me that you don't think a bunch of Sith who haven't fought in years are going to be on high alert? No, they are going to be lax and having half of their Temple blown in is going to scare the crap out of them.
Also note that they are outnumbered more than 4 to one. Look at how great the PT Jedi Masters(Ki-Adi Mundi, for example) did against equivalent numbers of troops.
Sith who haven't fought in years? These were the elite of the Empire, at least some of them were. I have reason to believe one of them used to be a Jedi Council Master, maybe two of them. Based on what the disciple said. And they are going to be on an alerted state because they will be warned of the incoming rebels, and they already know the rebellion is coming to their last stronghold. Also do you think Revan is an idiot and wouldn't reinforce the temple? Its pretty damned important now isn't?
Also those Sith are going to do far better then the Jedi did. Not to mention that they aren't going to be shot in the back by their friends now are they? And yeah I will look at how great the PT masters did. Anakin a good Jedi but not a powerful Master managed to take out far more then that easily when he was fighting droids and killing the Seperatist at the same time. Yoda and Obi Wan easily took care of far more clone troopers then that. And a kid Jedi in the temple killed more then that before being killed. 4 to 1 means absolutely nothing, and its definitly not in the favour of the rebels.
And they aren't going to outnumber the Sith 4 to 1.
You have no proof of this. Stop spitting out all the BS you want.
Play the game, the computer says so.
The Commando's job is done at this point. As I've already shown, the Sith fleet doesn't stand a chance against the Rebel one and Revan has a very limited population from which to draw crew from, limiting the number of ships he can makes since droid pilots weren't invented yet.
Droid Pilots by that time will be invented and used, probably stolen from the rebels, and if not then developed to suicide fly the Rebel ships. Revan isn't an idiot and neither are his scientists, it would probably be an important strategy in the war. Anyways the commando's wouldn't be able to do anything. Its a very stupid thing to assume that they could reach the planet undetected then get to the temple and kill powerful Sith Lords and blow it up. Which wouldn't even do anything.
The Temple is gone meaning the shield is gone. The Rebel Fleet then proceeds to blow the crap out of the Revan's Empire.
Which is crap.
almost your entire argument exists on the fact that Revan will be an idiot and leave the last system he controls undiscovered, and that he won't try to detect the enemy if they come. It also operates under the assumption that he would not prepare at all for a possible rebel invasion or wouldn't know anything about their tactics when he has been fighting rebels for a long time by then. It also assumes that the Sith Lords in the temple are going to be idiots and fools and will die as easily as Jedi that were shot in the back by their friends.
Really the chances of that happening are almost nihil.
Ohh yeah about that, well its a good point. I'm not entirely sure on the effect however Ramming might be a possible option, however you must consider the obvious thing that Revan will do in retaliation. Start ramming the rebel ships.
And the Star Forge can produce ships faster then the rebel shipyards can produde them and bring them to the Star Forge. Besides maybe a few more ships would stop the cruiser. I don't think Revan would care of the loss of lives or ships if the Star Forge was at stake. Also without shields or electronics to keep things working the ship is going to be a lot weaker, and would take far more damage then it normally would.
How do we know that the Rebel shipyards can't make ships as fast as the Star Forge?
I know the Empire and the Rebels are different, but could the SF make an ISD every two days along with over 150 other warships every single day? The Star Forge isn't unmatched in ship building.
If Revan starts ramming Rebel ships, there is no garentee that they will be able to do much damage to a Rebel ship because it is moving. The difference with the SF is that it is stationary. A Rebel ship can match one of Revan's ship velocity and make the damage recieved minimal assuming it even gets through the shields and then continue pounding Revans ships(since if the Mon Calamari cruiser survives the ramming by acceleration in the same direction as the Sith ship, neither ship will be damaged much and Revan's ships would probably survive too).
The problem with trying to ram the Mon Calamari Cruiser to knock it away from the SF is that, 1. They aren't going to get many tries before it hits the station. 2. Even if the front of the ship is smashed in and the ship in all messed up, it still has the mass to damage the SF. 3. The ramming ships could be knocked towards the SF.
Originally posted by Fishy
and you think Revan doesn't realise that? Seriously glentract how stupid could he be? When he only has a little bit of an empire left, he's going to do everything he can to defend it. He isn't just going to sit around waiting for something to happen in a place he can see from the Star Forge. It would be freaking stupid, last time I checked he isn't.
The point is that Revan doesn't have the ships and troops to defend the system against the Rebels. They can simply move in, destroy anything in their way, destroy the shield on the planet, destroy the fleet Revan might have and destroy the Star Forge.
From what we can see Revan added no additional defences, he didn't think it was necessary because nobody could find the Star Forge. Malak knew Revan was coming, but telling his fleet to look out for a single ship that might come to there, it shows weakness... He would be foolish to do so. Still I am surprised he didn't add a few more defences there without it being to noticable.
Malak did place all the Sith in the temple since he only awaited a ship full of Revan's friends. What can Revan put there to stop an entire army of Rebels invading the planet ? Nothing.
Also note that they are under a constant thread, the Rebel Alliance that can't be to far away and is hunting for them, and they don't have to be on their highest alert, they just need to fly through a system, or perhaps place a few ships at strategic locations to make sure that they can see everything everywhere. Its not that hard to do you know, and it would be the first thing any general would do. You or Nai pointed out that everybody would logically send scouts first instead of the entire fleet, whats different about this situation? Except for it being Revan?
If the Rebels send scout those would be most likely starfighters which have Hyperdrive capability at that time. They simply will jump into the system, spot Revan's ships, spot the SF and will jump out again and basically Revan can't do anything against it. Once the position of his troops is revealed he's screwed because the Rebel's will send everything the have there and Revan can't move the SF away so either he has to leave it there or he has to defend it.
Which will make them know there is some kind of shield nothing more. The commando's would be spotted and their ships destroyed, if somehow they would land then the Sith fighter fleet could easily come after them and take them out when they are on the ground.
With their technology they can spot the source of the shield. And we have seen that there are mobile shield units for ground troops (TPM) so that Sith fighters won't be able to take ground forces out. And even if they could they have to fire on the temple which they probably won't do - if they would even be able to get beyond the Rebels fleet...
They might know there is a shield, but I doubt they would find out the location of the shield generator. Besides if you played Kotor you would know the Temple of Ancients just holds the codes. It can't disable the shield.
They would be able to see it. And the Temple of Ancients is mentioned to be the source of the shield. It would make no sense to place a "remote control" for the shield down on the planet if it's generated somewhere on the SF.
Problem here is how do you know where everybody is going to land? Maybe they will all land at the same place, its possible.
Projected Trajactory. They can use some math and land exactly were they want to land.
So the Rebels are going to be checking for a rare and outdated cloacking technology when walking towards the base? If its hardly ever used if used at all its not going to be something you check for now is it? Even so... The total death rate would be higher then 10 at this time. But have it your way.
It doesn't matter. The cloacking of the Mandalorians will run out with the first attack they do means they can't stay invisible while fighting and once they are visible they are dead.
Sith who haven't fought in years? These were the elite of the Empire, at least some of them were. I have reason to believe one of them used to be a Jedi Council Master, maybe two of them. Based on what the disciple said. And they are going to be on an alerted state because they will be warned of the incoming rebels, and they already know the rebellion is coming to their last stronghold. Also do you think Revan is an idiot and wouldn't reinforce the temple? Its pretty damned important now isn't?
He still can't put anything down there that will protect the temple from an army of Rebels invading it.
Also those Sith are going to do far better then the Jedi did. Not to mention that they aren't going to be shot in the back by their friends now are they? And yeah I will look at how great the PT masters did. Anakin a good Jedi but not a powerful Master managed to take out far more then that easily when he was fighting droids and killing the Seperatist at the same time. Yoda and Obi Wan easily took care of far more clone troopers then that. And a kid Jedi in the temple killed more then that before being killed. 4 to 1 means absolutely nothing, and its definitly not in the favour of the rebels.
And Yaddle was killed by a single thermal detonator...
And this is Glentracts theory of a invading commando. If an army comes down there - they are screwed. Even a commando with 100 people against 20 Sith that are spread across the temple. They won't outnumber them 4 on 1 ... they will outnumber them 25 on 1.
Droid Pilots by that time will be invented and used, probably stolen from the rebels, and if not then developed to suicide fly the Rebel ships. Revan isn't an idiot and neither are his scientists, it would probably be an important strategy in the war. Anyways the commando's wouldn't be able to do anything. Its a very stupid thing to assume that they could reach the planet undetected then get to the temple and kill powerful Sith Lords and blow it up. Which wouldn't even do anything.
Suicide attacks on the Rebels ships won't do anything before their shields are gone. Seeing that the Rebel's ships were able to survive the onslaught over Endor with hundrets of ISDs and the Executor involved (ships that have 100times the firepower of anything Revan has) I don't think Revan would be able to take the more powerful ships down.
almost your entire argument exists on the fact that Revan will be an idiot and leave the last system he controls undiscovered, and that he won't try to detect the enemy if they come. It also operates under the assumption that he would not prepare at all for a possible rebel invasion or wouldn't know anything about their tactics when he has been fighting rebels for a long time by then. It also assumes that the Sith Lords in the temple are going to be idiots and fools and will die as easily as Jedi that were shot in the back by their friends.
The point is that Revan has no chance to stop the Rebels because they are superior on every field. He can put what he wants on the planet - the Rebels are more powerful. He can put what he want into the systems space or in the planets orbit - the Rebels are more powerful.
BTW, in a worse-case scenario, the Rebels can wait about 25 years until they develop the Star Lancer or whatever it's called. It's some ship that shoots across Star Systems and can do heavy damage. Revan has 25 years tops to live in the SF system, even though Nai's plan of using as army could take them down much faster.
I read on wikipedia about a Jedi Shadow Bomb.This is what they say about it: 'A shadow bomb is essentially a proton torpedo with the propellant fuel replaced by packed baradium, the material used in the destructive thermal detonators'.Jedi would just guide the bomb with the force,onto an enemy ship.I know how unreliable Wikipedia is,but maybe Revan could have his Apprentices use this against enemy ships?