Rachel Grey vs. White Queen

If Rachel hones her skills, who would win in this re-match?

Tough to say. Rachel definately has the potential to win, so with enough practise, she does.

Obviously with her skills honed Rachel would win, however right now in a telepathic battle Emma would win as shown recently.

Does anyone have any thoughts about how Rachels tk would fare against Emmas diamond form?

A bullet shattered Emma's diamond form right? Rachel could easily come up with something like that using her TK...

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
A bullet shattered Emma's diamond form right? Rachel could easily come up with something like that using her TK...

A diamond bullet shattered Emma form. However if people believe that Rachels tk could overcome Emmas diamond form then even currently Rachel could win.

Emma by most accounts and according to her bio cant use her tp in diamond form(Yeah there was that one occassion in astonishing but until thats supported by another title or another writer its not canon). So if Rachel attacked Emma with Tk she'd be forced to revert to diamond form and be forced to remain in it for protection. She wouldnt be able to use her TP so she'd be a sitting duck.

Any ideas on how Rachels TK would be effective in this situation. Whats the environment threadmaker?

Ahh yeah, i forgot the bullet was diamond.

What you're saying is true though. If Rachel can use her TK to force Emma into Diamond form the fight's pretty much over. Rachel can pound her with TK whilst attacking her mind with TP. And even without TP, i'd wager that Rachel would be able to knock Emma out using her TK.

Rachel only loses if she engages in strict TP warfare. Otherwise, she wins...

Rachels main form of attack has always primarily been telekinesis, we know she can manipulate genomes unconsciously and mess with molecules, so if Jean can reconstruct Emma on a molecular level it's safe to say Rachel can deconstruct her in the same manner. Thanks to Emma showing Rachel her telepathic skills are superior, Rachel will think twice before launching any purely telepathic attacks against Emma.

Originally posted by LordKaos
Rachels main form of attack has always primarily been telekinesis, we know she can manipulate genomes unconsciously and mess with molecules, so if Jean can reconstruct Emma on a molecular level it's safe to say Rachel can deconstruct her in the same manner. Thanks to Emma showing Rachel her telepathic skills are superior, Rachel will think twice before launching any purely telepathic attacks against Emma.

But at the time Jean was reverting to her Phoenix persona and tapping into the Crown. Has Rachels TK been shown to be able to work on a molecular level like that?

I think making a blackhole qualifies, and DNA is molecular and she can change her own so i'd say she certainly has it in her.

Originally posted by LordKaos
I think making a blackhole qualifies, and DNA is molecular and she can change her own so i'd say she certainly has it in her.

Youre right. Thinking back it does seem that she can manipulate matter at the necessary level to deal with Emmas diamond form. With that in mind id give this to Rachel.

Emma was shown using TP back in New X-Men. When she and Beast were stranded on that island, her TP let her know that Jean was on her way. Then there was the incident in Astonishing. I wonder why Morrison didn't let her use TP in diamond form at first. If other psis can use TP and TK at the same time...

Anyhow, Rachel's TK extends to the atomic level as well, just like Jean's. Jean was using uber TK during Revolution before she started manifesting Phoenix again .

Anyhow, I've always thought that Rachel would take Emma in a straight up no holds fight anyway. She doesn't need omega-level TK to take on Emma.

✅

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
Emma was shown using TP back in New X-Men. When she and Beast were stranded on that island, her TP let her know that Jean was on her way. Then there was the incident in Astonishing. I wonder why Morrison didn't let her use TP in diamond form at first. If other psis can use TP and TK at the same time...

Anyhow, Rachel's TK extends to the atomic level as well, just like Jean's. Jean was using uber TK during Revolution before she started manifesting Phoenix again .

Anyhow, I've always thought that Rachel would take Emma in a straight up no holds fight anyway. She doesn't need omega-level TK to take on Emma.

Her bio says the diamond form supresses her TP. So maybe in that form she is restricted to low level TP.

Either way i agree Rachel would most likely win.

I know what her bio says. Of course, this isn't the first time that a bio has conflicted with in-continuity comics. She says that she doesn't get thirsty in her diamond form. At this point, who knows?

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
I know what her bio says. Of course, this isn't the first time that a bio has conflicted with in-continuity comics. She says that she doesn't get thirsty in her diamond form. At this point, who knows?

But from what we've seen in her comic book appearances by saying that her tp is merely supressed her bio is not conflicting with in-continuity comics is it? 😕

Her bio says that she has not TP in diamond form. She's demonstrated TP in diamond form. I think that's conflicting.

i think Rachel wins this. even if telepaths could affect direct affection w/ teke (psi-bolts etc.) since its direct psi-energy, and not thrown items, Emma's tp would be too weak in diamond form to try to block Rachel affecting her molecules or atoms anyway

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
Her bio says that she has not TP in diamond form. She's demonstrated TP in diamond form. I think that's conflicting.

I thought it said her TP was supressed not non-existent in which case your line of thinking would be incorrect. However i could be wrong so i'll check later. 😉

Furthermore as a consequence of continued mutation Emma can now transform her skin and hair into a diamond hard form at will. While in her diamond form Emmas telepathic abilities are supressed.

Yeah i thought as much.

i thought that her diamond form gave her extra resistence to telepathy. If the
assumption that all quasi-oragnic beings mentally exist on the astral plane is true then her not being able to use telepathy is... well stupid. When she got her secondary mutation there were just too many powerful telepaths in the mansion, Xaiver, Grey, Quire and the 5 in 1, maybe they just wanted to cut down on all the telepathic speech bubbles.