Rachel Grey vs. White Queen

Originally posted by LordKaos
I don't need to read captions or even click your scan i have that issue, if it is a fantasy then explain why it actually happened! Those are Dark Phoenix memories, everything in those "fantasies" really happened. So you explain how Rachel was able to see them, oh wait I already did she can psionically recreate the past visually.

But thats speculation on your part and its incorrect speculation at that especially when its actually stated on panel that the previous scene was Rachel fantasising based on the X-mens files detailing what actually happened. Thats the important bit you dont seem to be acknowledging. Thats why her fantasisies were so true to reality because they were based on files documenting exactly what happened. Thats actually stated. Theres really no debating this. 😉

So why did she know her granfather was thinking the same thoughts he thought when his dauhgter was Dark Phoenix? I take it back about enjoying debating with you, you think you are the end all of all things Phoenix. You are really good at finding tid-bits about the force as long as it suites your myopic veiw of the marvel universe where Phoenix reigns supreme (me too 👿 ) EXPLAIN WHY RACHELS "FANTASIES" mirror true events? Oh wait (once again I did), if there were a scan or a comic reference to everything then you'd be up sh!ts creek about the many ways Phoenix (whom is my GOD) could be beat. But you know i still love you 😄

Originally posted by LordKaos
So why did she know her granfather was thinking the same thoughts he thought when his dauhgter was Dark Phoenix? I take it back about enjoying debating with you, you think you are the end all of all things Phoenix. You are really good at finding tid-bits about the force as long as it suites your myopic veiw of the marvel universe where Phoenix reigns supreme (me too 👿 ) EXPLAIN WHY RACHELS "FANTASIES" mirror true events? Oh wait (once again I did), if there were a scan or a comic reference to everything then you'd be up sh!ts creek about the many ways Phoenix (whom is my GOD) could be beat. But you know i still love you 😄

At the end of the day it states on panel that the DP scene was Rachels fantasy. It then gives a reason for why it was so true to reality(it was based on documentation detailing the events of the saga). Thats conclusive. Theres no arguing with that.

Youre making up a power based on the fact that the scene was so true to form. Thats speculation. Unsupported speculation at that.

The situation here is similar to in films where someone is sent a letter from a loved one who's away somewhere and as they read the letter the film shifts scene to re-enact that persons actions. Thats all that was a re-enaction. A fantasy based on X-men files. Thats actually stated. No further debating on the matter is required. 😉

Yeah i love you to 😛

Oh yeah and eternitygoddess thank you for this thread, i would worship you but I am LORDKAOS!! smile

😉

aww...love rocks!

I think what LordKaos is getting at his how can they be fantasies gleamed from files when no one knows what happened at the Grey home. The X-Men didn't show up until later (remember Jean noticing the fog). Who entered that info in the files? It's a pretty damned accurate fantasy.

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
I think what LordKaos is getting at his how can they be fantasies gleamed from files when no one knows what happened at the Grey home. The X-Men didn't show up until later (remember Jean noticing the fog). Who entered that info in the files? It's a pretty damned accurate fantasy.

I know what he's getting at but that doesnt change the fact that that scene was stated to be fantasy based on what Rachel read from the X-mens files. Therefore theres no debating the issue to be honest. The X-men werent there but either Jean or the Greys themselves couldve talked with any one of the members and given their account on what took place. You cant make up a power for Rachel because her fantasies were so true to reality.

I didn't make up the power, she psionically recreated images of the past in uncanny 464, which does not seem to be outside her scope of power since she has time-travelling abilities of a psychic nature. You only got stuck on the Dark Phoenix stuff because you figured using it would prove something, when in actuallity i used the Uncanny 464 example to state my original point and then retroactively used the other to hint she may have always had the potential to do what she did in 464.

Originally posted by LordKaos
I didn't make up the power, she psionically recreated images of the past in uncanny 464, which does not seem to be outside her scope of power since she has time-travelling abilities of a psychic nature. You only got stuck on the Dark Phoenix stuff because you figured using it would prove something, when in actuallity i used the Uncanny 464 example to state my original point and then retroactively used the other to hint she may have always had the potential to do what she did in 464.

But youre trying to say that Rachel will somehow be able to recreate the past so she can tap into Jean Greys thoughts and get her training. Do you know how absurd that is? Thats a cosmic level feat and is beyond any mutant currently on earth except for Wanda.

The feat youre basing this speculated power on is something that any psychic could do. There was psychic residue in the area and Rachel showed Psylocke an image of what was resonating in the area. Thats not recreating the past in the way youre implying.

all you did is use different words to say exactly what i said she did, she recreated images of the past! it is not absurd for a person who has any kind of psychometric ability to conjure images of the past to learn things, that's the point of the power. what's absurd is that you think i meant she could physically recreate the past when i cleary used words like "image" and "psionically", what's also absurd is your assumption that only a being with cosmic power can tap a crystal which holds anothers essence and learn from it. I'm pretty sure a holempathic crystal holds a hell of a lot of psi residue for her to connect with Jean, who is alive and well in the white hot room. i'm done with this as your innate ability to post the same thing over and over by rearranging and replacing words that mean the same thing has beome tedious. don' quit your day job, because you'll never convince me of anything no matter how many scans you have. in a comic book world of endless possibilities it is entirely possible for somebody of Rachels pedigree to do just about anything.