Character Ownage

Originally posted by Digi
So what was I looking at there? That it took a lot of his power to restrain the Hulk?

It's so hard to quantify most of this. There's no way to tell if that's a nigh-abstract feat, or just a run-of-the-mill decent strength feat. And spare me the biased interpretation...that's how this thread gets into trouble. There's no basis for comparison with that. It's probably impressive as hell, but it's also the kind of thing a writer can get away with and explain away one of a few ways later on if he needs to.

Same with the time punch. Was it just that those conditions made the time barrier vulnerable to force? Or was it reality warping via rage-smash? It's cool either way - I'm not trying to take anything away from Hulk - just trying to temper the enthusiasm with pragmatism over what we know for sure about the feats.

Like I said, for some comparison, he bound Sorcerer Supreme Strange/Wanda/Deadpool/Ghost Rider earlier while the large majority of his energy was focused on restraining Hulk (Which is alone very impressive).

Marvel's time structure is broken (Paradoxes and such) but as the Time Terrorists showed, it's still not easy to change (You need to time travel and such and directly interfere with events). And Hulk with a single punching, shattering the time barrier, traveling from New Mexico to an underground prison at the other side of the country, and simultaneously retconning all the changes the Time Terrorists made to the timestream in the past/future is a pretty ridiculous strength feat. At the very least as impressive as Prime's feat, but more so imho.

But that's just me.

Originally posted by carver9
And youre the guy that said this even though I didn't respond to that nonsense. I guess I am important.

😂

I don't give a sh*t about that Prime retcon feat either. Prime's a badass to me because he took on teams of heralds without breaking a sweat, not because he did something that will remain unquantifiable by any objective measurement.

Again, I do think the Hulk's feat is badass and amazing. I'm not trying to start a fight. I just don't think that something as abstract as time can provide a basis for comparison with something that is entirely incongruent to it. Hulk's best feats are the ones we have measurable limits for, imo. Fights against others, world-destroying feats, etc. But what's the conversion from time to strength? 10 days of retcon = 100 million tons? Am I in the ballpark? Tell me that and I'll be completely on board.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, for some comparison, he bound Sorcerer Supreme Strange/Wanda/Deadpool/Ghost Rider earlier while the large majority of his energy was focused on restraining Hulk (Which is alone very impressive).

Marvel's time structure is broken (Paradoxes and such) but as the Time Terrorists showed, it's still not easy to change (You need to time travel and such and directly interfere with events). And Hulk with a single punching, shattering the time barrier, traveling from New Mexico to an underground prison at the other side of the country, and simultaneously retconning all the changes the Time Terrorists made to the timestream in the past/future is a pretty ridiculous strength feat. At the very least as impressive as Prime's feat, but more so imho.

But that's just me.

Prime ft is different though. Prime was in a room built to control and maintain time. Any damage done to the wall could restructure time itself. Prime had something to punch at. What made Prime ft more impressive is, he was able to break the wall while another Superman nearly failed at achieving the same thing while busting his knuckles open.

Originally posted by carver9
Prime ft is different though. Prime was in a room built to control and maintain time. Any damage done to the wall could restructure time itself. Prime had something to punch at. What made Prime ft more impressive is, he was able to break the wall while another Superman nearly failed at achieving the same thing while busting his knuckles open.

Here Carver:
http://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?rpy=comicbattles-2013112213352106&layout=thread

Some ammo for future threads. 🙂

Originally posted by Digi
I don't give a sh*t about that Prime retcon feat either. For all we know, any amount of force could have messed with the timestream from where he was. Prime's a badass to me because he took on teams of heralds without breaking a sweat, not because he did something that will remain unquantifiable by any objective measurement.

Again, I do think the Hulk's feat is badass and amazing. I'm not trying to start a fight. I just don't think that something as abstract as time can provide a basis for comparison with something that is entirely incongruent to it. Hulk's best feats are the ones we have measurable limits for, imo. Fights against others, world-destroying feats, etc. But what's the conversion from time to strength? 10 days of retcon = 100 million tons? Am I in the ballpark? Tell me that and I'll be completely on board.

You're over-thinking it a bit. It's just one of those high end ridiculously powerful abstract strength feats. That's all.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Here Carver:
http://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?rpy=comicbattles-2013112213352106&layout=thread

Some ammo for future threads. 🙂

👆

Saved.

Originally posted by Raisen
thor has needed mjolnir to fly 99% of the time. why the hell would he twirl it so fast if not to gain momentum.

mjolnir-less flight is something new for sure. maybe they'll have hulk fly next

With the way Hulk's going these days, yeah probably lol.

But Thor's always been able to control the winds and that's what lets him "fly". It's like what storm does, only better. 😛 Of course flying with Mjolnir in front of him has always been his trademark and all that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You're over-thinking it a bit. It's just one of those high end ridiculously powerful abstract strength feats. That's all.

Fair enough. But I just don't want to attribute something that we can't prove. Maybe it would take a Skyfather being to produce the same affect on the time barrier. Maybe Iron Man's best strikes could have done it. We don't know, because simply the fact that time is generally considered an abstract quality doesn't necessitate that the strength is "abstract" as well (whatever that means, since "abstract strength" is itself a nonsensical term). Because if we legitimately call it an "abstract strength" feat, we're saying that what Hulk did can't actually be measured in force or tonnage, but it literally became the concept of strength in the abstract, non-physical sense. Did he become the abstract embodiment of strength, capable of manipulating reality by moving his fists really hard?

Or...was the time barrier briefly vulnerable to physical force, and a very large but ultimately unquantifiable amount of strength was required to break it? Probably that, yeah?

You begin to see my issue with the Hulk. I don't care how strong he is - hell, make him be able to go blow for blow with Skyfathers. Whatever works. But "punching time" doesn't make sense regardless of how much strength you attribute to him, so it's either nonsensical writing (even by comic standards) or something else was going on like my supposition in the last paragraph.

I'll stop now. Didn't mean to take us too far down this tangent. I know how polarizing Hulk can be.

Originally posted by Digi
Fair enough. But I just don't want to attribute something that we can't prove. Maybe it would take a Skyfather being to produce the same affect on the time barrier. Maybe Iron Man's best strikes could have done it. We don't know, because simply the fact that time is generally considered an abstract quality doesn't necessitate that the strength is "abstract" as well (whatever that means, since "abstract strength" is itself a nonsensical term). Because if we legitimately call it an "abstract strength" feat, we're saying that what Hulk did can't actually be measured in force or tonnage, but it literally became the concept of strength in the abstract, non-physical sense. Did he become the abstract embodiment of strength, capable of manipulating reality by moving his fists really hard?

Or...was the time barrier briefly vulnerable to physical force, and a very large but ultimately unquantifiable amount of strength was required to break it? Probably that, yeah?

You begin to see my issue with the Hulk. I don't care how strong he is - hell, make him be able to go blow for blow with Skyfathers. Whatever works. But "punching time" doesn't make sense regardless of how much strength you attribute to him, so it's either nonsensical writing (even by comic standards) or something else was going on like my supposition in the last paragraph.

Again, over-thinking it imo. For what it's worth, I don't think you'll ever see anyone doing something like that to the timestream unless they are the highest of Heralds or some higher end entities.

The reason Hulk was able to interact with time slightly better was as I understand it, due to the sliver of chronometal in his fist. It should be noted however, that Banner clarified that Hulk did the feat on his own, he was able to hold on to the edges of time IIRC, and earlier in the arc, through sheer strength, overpowered being frozen in time.

I get what you're saying, but Hulk doing ridiculous things with strength is kind of his calling card. At this point, saying Hulk is just strong is like saying Flash is just fast.

Hulk did hold on to a time portal.

http://s22.postimg.org/9f2btwda9/image.jpg

As far as I understand it, Marvel have always had an intangible element to Hulk's powerset, something that tears down the conceptual barriers between Matter, Energy, Idea and Magic. He's an equal opportunity smasher. The idea of pure rage, power and anger. The engine of infinite energies, the smasher of any and all matter and - since the beginning - the discerner of illusions and magical spells.

He's an abstract idea, as are many other comic characters, but with more of the abstract quality retained.

Hulk smashing time could simply be read as a manifestation of the "unified field theory" idea. That Hulk affects all things, because they are all inter-connected through an as yet undiscovered field.

Of the major characters, he still seems to have deliberately occluded powers and mechanisms. Where does the extra matter for his transformations come from? Where does it go when he's calmed down? How does he have access to infinite energies, whilst still being a mere mortal? Does anybody else tap into the same energy source?

We've never had a look into the true mechanics of it, just been given Marvel's assertions that it is infinite and that "the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets".

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually "found out" that Hulk was an abstract entity playing at being a human. Maybe even a fragment of The Beyonder - could have a whole race of super powered beings who don't have any definite explanation of their powers, turn out to be just ideas and notions from the mind of The Beyonder...

The Hulk Force is the fundamental creation energies of Marvel! ✅

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Here you go Carver:

*Hulk being awesome*

Enjoy. Fyi, that's the Order half of In-Betweener.

Less spectacular but in many ways, a more impressive showing than the time-punch IMHO as it's more of a direct comparison to another character (and a powerful one at that). His strength was at the point that a cosmic type being was finding it difficult to restrain him, and explicitly still growing.

Thanks for the scans.

Cheers.

Originally posted by LGU
Less spectacular but in many ways, a more impressive showing than the time-punch IMHO as it's more of a direct comparison to another character (and a powerful one at that). His strength was at the point that a cosmic type being was finding it difficult to restrain him, and explicitly still growing.

Thanks for the scans.

Cheers.

Not just difficult, it was taking nearly all of his energy. And the small amount of energy he had available was still able to capture Strange and the others, just for some comparison of his enormous power.

Anytime. I might be a Thor fanboy, but I enjoy posting good feats in general (No matter the origin).

Originally posted by Raisen
maybe they'll have hulk fly next

Been there done that 😛

How I miss the days when Rage was the carver-bully.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How I miss the days when Rage was the carver-bully.

Careful, we don't want to give Carver nightmares from the old days.

If he ever raises my ire however, he'll need his thunder buddy.

Originally posted by Digi
the abstract embodiment of strength, capable of manipulating reality by moving his fists really hard ...

Quite possibly the most accurate description of Hulk I've ever read.

Imo, Marvel really needs to use a bit of comic book 'science' to give us a new/better explanation for Hulk's powerset. This whole "the madder he gets, the stronger he gets" thing is just stupid when you look at some of the retardedly haxxed feats he's preformed over the years.

I've long thought they should develop some sort of "Strength-Force" that Hulk's been tapping all these years, in order to make some of the dues ex feats seem a little more logical(by comic book/fictional standards, of course)-- not unlike DC did with Flash and the Speed-Force.

Originally posted by Galan007
Imo, Marvel really needs to use a bit of comic book 'science' to give us a new/better explanation for Hulk's powerset. This whole "the madder he gets, the stronger he gets" thing is just stupid when you look at some of the retardedly haxxed feats he's preformed over the years.

I've long thought they should develop some sort of "Strength-Force" that Hulk's been tapping all these years, in order to make some of the dues ex feats seem a little more logical(by comic book/fictional standards, of course)-- not unlike DC did with Flash and the Speed-Force.

Personally I'd rather have a magical explanation, Hulk is but a Banner's dream.