Yoda isn't a lightweight. He's arguably the best of his time, no question. But your proof is strictly quotes. You have books and people saying Sidious is the strongest. The evidence against him is in accomplishment and ability.
Yes, GL says Sidious is the strongest and that the PT Jedi are the strongest, and by canonical standards he has the right to say what is and what isn't. But I refuse to believe that. I don't view SW by the canonical views, I view it as what makes sense. I think about it in real-world examples. Such as, I believe the Old Sith and Jedi are leagues ahead of the PT Jedi and Sith just as swordsman today are much worse than ancient swordsman. Think about it, the galaxy is at peace for so long, Jedi no longer need strength and martial ability. Just as beliefs become diluted and less potent generation after generation, the power of the Jedi and Sith has become the same.
why would the old Jedi be stronger at all? They never really displayed much greater feats....and what Lucas says goes....I generally hate a lot of it, but he IS the boss.
What accomplishment and ability though? Accomplishment? He is the ONLY Sith to wipe out the JEdi order completely. Any other time ir survived, but he is the only one Sith to rip it apart, destroy the Republic and actually take the galaxy. Ability? He destroyed a FLEET. He devoured the energy of billions, he destroyed a large group of Stormtroopers with force lightning alone. I'd really like to know what this evidence against Sidious and Yoda is.
The thing is, there isn't much presentable proof that goes against this. Most of it is from a mindset that won't budge, and logical analysis.
If Sidious is as powerful in ROTS as he was in DE, why didn't he just summon a wormhole to warp Yoda in the void of space?
If Sidious is more wise and powerful than the Sith of old, why he did he need their guidance and knowledge to keep himself alive when his clone body deteriorated?
If Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time, why does the databank describe him as such:
He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times.
Shouldn't it address him as 'the most powerful practitioner of all time'?
More to the point, why WOULD he? Why wipe out half of Coruscant, revealing to everyone else that he's fighting Master Yoda with a lightsaber.
I'd say talking to the Ancient Sith who were links to the Dark Side itself, just as Obi ghost could be a link to the Force would be a good diea. Sidious as at the end of his rope with only a bit of life left to him.
No clue on the databank there.
My question is: What'd the Ancient Sith do that was so great? They stagnated horribly. Sure Ragnos was feared, but he was scared to attack the Republic, he knew they couldn't beat the Jedi and the Republic forces. The only thing we have is Kreia's quote, and I ask you what the old Jedi have done that was so much greater?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
More to the point, why WOULD he? Why wipe out half of Coruscant, revealing to everyone else that he's fighting Master Yoda with a lightsaber.
The wormholes can be localized, as shown in DE. He would have been able to rid himself of Yoda while the Jedi was unconcious on the floor. But why didn't he, I wonder. . .
I'd say talking to the Ancient Sith who were links to the Dark Side itself, just as Obi ghost could be a link to the Force would be a good diea. Sidious as at the end of his rope with only a bit of life left to him.
It was a good idea, and one that saved his life. But my question is 'why would he'? If he is more knowledgeable and and powerful in the ways of the Dark Side, why waste precious days traveling to Korriban and consulting the spirits of the Ancients? Wouldn't he have been able to figure out what to do on his own? Or how to do it?
No clue on the databank there.
The maybe I'm making progress. 😉
My question is: What'd the Ancient Sith do that was so great? They stagnated horribly. Sure Ragnos was feared, but he was scared to attack the Republic, he knew they couldn't beat the Jedi and the Republic forces. The only thing we have is Kreia's quote, and I ask you what the old Jedi have done that was so much greater?
Ragnos was smart. He didn't allow his people to tread beyond the Sith territories because he didn't want to get involved with the Republic in any way, shape, or form. Naga Sadow and his possy actually managed to inflict some damage on the Republic's forces, and likely would have done better had Kressh cooperated.
And I'm not one for the whole 'Every Old Jedi > Every Modern Jedi'. I personally hold Yoda to be the most powerful Jedi of any before him. He has his equals, and a superior or two, in the New Jedi Order, but those are very few.
Of the old Order, I believe only Vodo could successfully contend with him, and even that to a limited effect.
1. When Yoda was on the floor, Sidious was savoring the moment...or Yoda played dead....if you want another explanation, a wizard did it and Lucas wanted dramatic effect. Why didn't Grievous use those sabers better? Why didn't Mace just twitch instead of pulling his saber back? Why didn't Jango duck? Why did Vader chuck a saber at Luke? Or yank simply punch him out during a saber lock?
2. Power doesn't exactly equate to knowledge that only those in direct connection to the force itself would know....I could be a great warrior and wizard, but I'd still need to chat with a seer from time to time. Figuring things out could take time and effort, two things he relly couldn't afford to spare. He couldn't even use his powers without screwing up the clone....and add that to the fact the clone bit had made him totally lose his mind...
3. Sadow didn't inflict THAT much damage and if he did, it was military force, no Sith power. Ragnos's brains hardly equate to power either...he KNEW the Sith weren't strong enough to attack the Jedi and Republic. Moreover, until Gav and Jori Daragon arrived, the Sith had totally forgotten the Republic....Sadow's ground forces consisted of Massassi mainly and some Sith commanders...the bulk of the force was only illusion
Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. When Yoda was on the floor, Sidious was savoring the moment...or Yoda played dead.2. Power doesn't exactly equate to knowledge that only those in direct connection to the force itself would know....I could be a great warrior and wizard, but I'd still need to chat with a seer from time to time. Figuring things out could take time and effort, two things he relly couldn't afford to spare. He couldn't even use his powers without screwing up the clone....and add that to the fact the clone bit had made him totally lose his mind...
3. Sadow didn't inflict THAT much damage and if he did, it was military force, no Sith power. Ragnos's brains hardly equate to power either...he KNEW the Sith weren't strong enough to attack the Jedi and Republic. Moreover, until Gav and Jori Daragon arrived, the Sith had totally forgotten the Republic....Sadow's ground forces consisted of Massassi mainly and some Sith commanders...the bulk of the force was only illusion
1) Okay. . . he could have savored the though of Yoda's body floating in the vaccuum of space, couldn't he? Why would he risk his own death for something so foolish?
2) Technically, if he didn't know as much as the Ancients, he was as versatile and, in means other than raw potential, as powerful as the Ancients. It'd be like Anakin to Mace. The former certainly has more raw, untapped power, but he lacks the knowledge to use it. If this is the case with the Emperor, he's not all-powerful.
3) No, he didn't. But my point was that had Ludo assisted Sadow, and had they collaborated, they may have really challenged the Republic through brute force, as Revan did.
1. Evil Villain Syndrome. Every movie villain has it, from goldfinger, to Palpatine to Malak and Sadow...it was likely Palp thought Yoda was dead, too.
2. Like I said: His mind was crumbling, he was desperate, at the end of his rope. He needed people DIRECTLY in tune with the Force. He didn't have that in his currently state. The Ancients, if alive, couldn't have helped him a bit. Knowledge only somone dead and connected to the force can know isn't a demerit
3. They COULD have, but signs point to the idea they'd be taken out...Teta's forces alone would've outmassed them probably. The Jedi and Coruscant? Dead Sith forces
1) Or, he couldn't. You can't try to argue P.I.S. here, Lightsnake. And I doubt that Sidious thought Yoda to be dead. It'd take a blind fool to make that kind of mistake.
2) Alright, then, have it your way. If he was desperate and, in his state, weak enough, I suppose it's acceptable that he consult others. That renders the entire Point 2 debate moot.
3) I doubt that a surprised and unprepared Republic would outright own the combined power of two Dark Lords and their illusionary powers. It'd be like the worst case of deja vu possible, except that one of any number of illusions would spew turbolasers at you.
P.S. -- Do you yet have anything to say about the Databank point? Or can I consider that a standing point?
1) Well, I'd like to, but that would imply that Sidious in ROTS can create wormholes, which I don't believe.
3) Possibly, yes. I'm not saying that the two Sith would have won. But you cannot deny that they would have inflicted some heavy losses on the Republic and the Jedi.
Funny thing was, it was in the EU section, which is why I consider it so important.