Second EU Nation Moves To Ban Gay Marriage

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well you know we germans can't really agree with fascists anymore....we get labeled to easily ...it's a shame weep

But the thing is, I don't know if you mean it that way but I think the system (be it what it wants to be) should be equal for everyone...everyone should have the same riughts and the same responsibilities. And Officials need to take care that this is made possible. But then again we live in democracies cause there are many different opinions and the point is that people get ellected to do what the voter wants....so they cannot really do what all people want but what a majority thinks is best (there'S a problem with the US System since there are hardly any compromises).

I don't think everyone should have the same responsabilities. But, the same rights? Of course.

In my opinion, "democracies" is an excuse used by people who can't do what's best for all involved. That's not a personal attack, just my opinion. But, people have gotten caught up in this concept that teh government is keeping their freedoms safe and secure. This is not the case. It isn't imposible for everyone to be happy and safe, just improbable. As soon as there is a government that doesn't instill the idea that rights are a luxury, then we as a race can continue to evolve.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I don't think everyone should have the same responsabilities. But, the same rights? Of course.

In my opinion, "democracies" is an excuse used by people who can't do what's best for all involved. That's not a personal attack, just my opinion. But, people have gotten caught up in this concept that teh government is keeping their freedoms safe and secure. This is not the case. It isn't imposible for everyone to be happy and safe, just improbable. As soon as there is a government that doesn't instill the idea that rights are a luxury, then we as a race can continue to evolve.

Why not the same responsebilities?

I don't think that that's actually the fault of democracy...now I am not an US hater at all but if that is the way it is in teh US that is a different thing...although I recall that The Bill of Rights as well as the Constitution of most european countries say very clear "All men are created equal" or as it is said in germany "The Dignity of a human is unviolable"...it is not a luxury it is a concept that "we" the western civilizations grant every human in this universe. If there is a problem that some people don't see it that way it's not the fault of the System but of the people that are not educated the right way.....in fact democracies are usually very fair and liberal in theory.

Also there is no absolute form of govt. For instance the US is more of a democratic republic..............etc etc...........different forms of govt work for different cultures based on where the socioligic conditions place it and the needs of the people.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why not the same responsebilities?

I don't think that that's actually the fault of democracy...now I am not an US hater at all but if that is the way it is in teh US that is a different thing...although I recall that The Bill of Rights as well as the Constitution of most european countries say very clear "All men are created equal" or as it is said in germany "The Dignity of a human is unviolable"...it is not a luxury it is a concept that "we" the western civilizations grant every human in this universe. If there is a problem that some people don't see it that way it's not the fault of the System but of the people that are not educated the right way.....in fact democracies are usually very fair and liberal in theory.

"In theory", is the problem. And I'm unclear as to why it is not the fault of the system, when it fails? The problem lies in the concept of the "might of the majority", in the idea that some can be left behind in favor of those who are greater in number. The basic concept that I'm supporting is that common sense should be just that, common. Agendas need to be done away with. And the burden of organized religion needs to be put in it's place, outside the realm of social dictation.

Originally posted by soleran30
simply due to this interpretation.

It has less to do with his "interpretation", and more to do with his powers of 'persuasion'.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
"In theory", is the problem. And I'm unclear as to why it is not the fault of the system, when it fails? The problem lies in the concept of the "might of the majority", in the idea that some can be left behind in favor of those who are greater in number. The basic concept that I'm supporting is that common sense should be just that, common. Agendas need to be done away with. And the burden of organized religion needs to be put in it's place, outside the realm of social dictation.

Oh you have a whole wrong concept of what demonracy is aboot. It is not favorism...in fact the idea is that the parties show their views on what will be to the greater good of all (that's a concept all parties have....or should have ) ...the voters just decide what they think is the best concept to lead them to a good future....I see that it somehow is corrupted and that many voters just want to force their morals down the throat of others (but that's not the fault of the Ideology ,,,in this case democracy) .... what has to be changed is the undcerstanding of parties, elections and such not the system it self...since it is what you want...just corrupted.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
It has less to do with his "interpretation", and more to do with his powers of 'persuasion'.

is that whatcha think.........hmmmmmm

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh you have a whole wrong concept of what demonracy is aboot. It is not favorism...in fact the idea is that the parties show their views on what will be to the greater good of all (that's a concept all parties have....or should have ) ...the voters just decide what they think is the best concept to lead them to a good future....I see that it somehow is corrupted and that many voters just want to force their morals down the throat of others (but that's not the fault of the Ideology ,,,in this case democracy) .... what has to be changed is the undcerstanding of parties, elections and such not the system it self...since it is what you want...just corrupted.

No, I know what democracy is, I just don't see it happening in the world today. Anywhere, much less in the US. And that is the fault of the system. Any system that has corruption as the inevitable end result, is a flawed concept.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No, I know what democracy is, I just don't see it happening in the world today. Anywhere, much less in the US. And that is the fault of the system. Any system that has corruption as the inevitable end result, is a flawed concept.

I don't know what you mean? What is so wrong aboot the system called democracy (leave the US out which is just a two party dictatorship)?

Originally posted by soleran30
is that whatcha think.........hmmmmmm

Yes. I do. If it was all about his interpretaion, then he wouldn't have a career. When a defense attorney interprets the law in one case, it doesn't mean that he will interrpret it the same way in the next case he argues. So, his beliefs are irrelevant. Rather, his need to win a case/get paid is what is important to him.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't know what you mean? What is so wrong aboot the system called democracy (leave the US out which is just a two party dictatorship)?

The concept is great. But, that's all it is, a concept.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No, I know what democracy is, I just don't see it happening in the world today. Anywhere, much less in the US. And that is the fault of the system. Any system that has corruption as the inevitable end result, is a flawed concept.

but corruption is a human trait not govt trait..............do we get rid of all the people to get rid of corruption?🙂

If you want to have a debate about the nature of democracy, please open a new thread about it.

Originally posted by soleran30
but corruption is a human trait not govt trait..............do we get rid of all the people to get rid of corruption?🙂

Most of them, yes. And teh government is made of human, thus, corruption will always be a possiblity. Committed individuals are what is needed. Comitted to the people they serve, not vice versa.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
If you want to have a debate about the nature of democracy, please open a new thread about it.

Ah, but what is the basic concept behind this thread, if not the problem posed by the failings of "democracy"?

But, your intervention is conveniant, as it is time for me to get off my soapbox, sober up and sleep off the night.

How do these kind of threads get so big anyway?
Governments should stop trying to parent the people they serve. If people want their relationship to be recognised as official, pay for it and get the priviliges, then let them.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You know that my statement was rhetorical. We have had that conversation many times. The government [B]does need be done away with. [/B]

Indeed.

My point entirely:

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
If it can't serve the people it's supposed to represent, then it's failing at it's job and needs to be replaced with a body that can accomodate the people of this nation. ALL THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION.