Second EU Nation Moves To Ban Gay Marriage

Started by whobdamandog10 pages

Originally posted by debbiejo
^ years old?

Sorry, I havent read all the post.......

years, or years old.

"Amount" meaning the number of "people" who could participate in such a union. Notice how I put the word "adult" before son/daughter...

I mean..if they're all consenting adults..should the law recognize a consentual sexual union between father/son as a marriage?

How about a sexual union between a father/son/and daughter?

Or two brothers and one sister?

How many people should be able to engage in a "consentual" union? Should those individuals that are "immediate" family members..be excluded from marrying one another?

There are places where polygamy is allowed, legally. And lets not get started on cults and communes where free love reigns supreme (though I guess they in that case they aren't legal unions, just a social thing.)

Incest though is a different kettle of fish. Leaving aside morality, practically such unions pose a threat to children born from them in a genetic sense (ie. father with daughter.) Likewise psychologically speaking it is not viewed as healthy when it comes to children when parents do such things.. Of course there are likely to be people living like that out there, but they aren't coming out and asking for marriage rights.

That said homosexuality does not cause such problems, risks to the well being of the children and the like.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
"Amount" meaning the number of "people" who could participate in such a union. Notice how I put the word "adult" before son/daughter...

I mean..if they're all consenting adults..should the law recognize a consentual sexual union between father/son as a marriage?

How about a sexual union between a father/son/and daughter?

Or two brothers and one sister?

How many people should be able to engage in a "consentual" union?

Oh....Hmmmm

Consenting would be the word I suppose. Even if I find it morally wrong, who am I to say what Consenting adults do.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
I'm not ignorant at all Captain..I just have a different opinion than yourself. My words do indeed "speak for themselves", and I'm certain that they will influence others who read them in different ways. Your opinion of them..doesn't necessarily reflect the opinions of others.

Not at all. I don't hate anyone. Nor do I wish any ill will upon anyone. What I do "hate" however..is the ideology that you/others have choosen to represent, which is based on nothing but lies, selfishness, and perversions. I also "hate" the fact that you attempt to force such a foolish ideology on others.

You are ignorant. It is ignorant to place your head in the sand and ignore any and all evidence that disputes your biblical views. And you are welcome to your opinion. But, I assure you, that the day will come where people like yourself will be little more than an air buiscuit in the winds of history. Despite the personal existance of people, humanity will continue. If homosexuality is a plague, then christians like yourself are too.

I try to enforce my life on no one else. I simply ask that you don't enforce yours on me. Live in your little world with baby Jesus all you want, but keep it there. As it is, it's clear to everyone that you exist to make the whole world like you. You're so pissed off that life took a big shit on you, that you want to shit on everyone else. I'm sorry you're a virgin, but don't hate me because I'm not. And therein lies the real problem! You can't seperate gay from gay sex. Unlike yourself, and people like you; the rest of the world can't be so easily categorized and referrenced. And that fact scares you. You can't handle difference, so you scream about it. You condemn it.

And I'm confused by your use of the term "selfishness"? Why use such a term? Do you want me to share the gay sex with you? Do you want me to pass out your number to the tired old queens at the club?

As for not wishing ill upon anyone, not only is that another lie, but it is a sentiment that we do not share. I wish nothing but the worst upon people like you. And if you pity me, the feeling is mutual. Change with the times, or die yesterday.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
"Amount" meaning the number of "people" who could participate in such a union. Notice how I put the word "adult" before son/daughter...

I mean..if they're all consenting adults..should the law recognize a consentual sexual union between father/son as a marriage?

How about a sexual union between a father/son/and daughter?

Or two brothers and one sister?

How many people should be able to engage in a "consentual" union? Should those individuals that are "immediate" family members..be excluded from marrying one another?

This dribble was addressed many posts ago. If you can't come up with something new, then don't speak after your arguments have been "owned".

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Incest though is a different kettle of fish. Leaving aside morality, practically such unions pose a threat to children born from them in a genetic sense (ie. father with daughter.) Likewise psychologically speaking it is not viewed as healthy when it comes to children when parents do such things.. Of course there are likely to be people living like that out there, but they aren't coming out and asking for marriage rights.

That said homosexuality does not cause such problems, risks to the well being of the children and the like.

Well of course, you are assuming that the two participants in said incetuous relationship would be of the opposite sex. What if they were of the same sex? There would be no need for concerns regarding offspring correct? Or what if a father/daughter or mother/son in such a union choose not to have children? Should they still be denied the right to marriage..even though they have choosen not to have children?

There are indeed people out there who believe in such foolish concepts..much like homosexuality, these practices have been deemed by many in society to be degenerative behaviors..which cause the inevitable break down the social family structure, and as a result cause something similar to an anarchaic society.

Here's a pretty accurate dipiction of what people like you are really spreading in this world:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3552314994740921390&q=farting+preacher

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8478388526913847225&q=farting+preacher

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2453217212869715744&q=farting+preacher

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=423412654049302774&q=farting+preacher

old news to most informed people, but news to people who've been in their basement praying to a coke can for most of their life.

captain, i agree with your views on this subject. eastern europe is a bit behind the times. but please, explain to me what the hell an airbiscuit is?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
captain, i agree with your views on this subject. eastern europe is a bit behind the times. but please, explain to me what the hell an airbiscuit is?

A type of flatulence. 😆

ah, i see...so buiscuit is a metaphor for a log and/or loaf.
clever.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
ah, i see...so buiscuit is a metaphor for a log and/or loaf.
clever.

yes, only smaller and less significant.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Just wanted to adress this point..seeing as how I believe it to be the most important issue being raised.

Where should the limit be regarding such a union? You all have stated that you are against necrophelia and beastiality. But what stances do you have on polygamy and incest?

Do you all believe that the law should recognize a consentual union between a Father and his adult son/daughter as a marriage? What about between Mother and adult son/daughter?

What should be the limit to the amount of consenting adults who engage in such a union. "2"..."3"..."4"...etc?

I'd like to know everyone's stance on these issues.

Polygamy I handled in my original post; incest would come under the same barrier of practical reasons, because legal links already exist between family members. How close a blood relationship has to be before it is actually incestuous is a question for each society to handle on its own.

I must have missed this post...

Originally posted by BackFire
You're telling me that straight people ONLY have sex for reproduction? Many many straight people have sex for recreation as well.

Not entirely for the sake of reproduction..but the possibility of reproduction exists between heterosexual couples. It does not exist between same sex couples.

Originally posted by BackFire
It's also an expression of love between two people, which can be done in both heterosexual sex and homosexual sex.

Well it depends on how you define the terminology.."expression of love."
I wouldn't categorize anal sex, cunnilingus, or mutual masterbation as "expressions of love." I'd categorize them as "sexual acts."

Homosexuality by its very definition..is not defined by emotions..but rather, it's defined by "sexual attraction." But you are correct about one thing, one can indeed express love for their fellow man, without engaging in any sexual behavior with him.

Originally posted by BackFire
Also, where's this strange "general" occurrence of anal sex in bestiality? How would you know that it usually involves anal sex? This is nothing but an assumption on your part, probably because you wanted to have 3 examples rather then 2. All of these "comparisons" are incredibly questionable, at best, and absolute bullshit, at worst.

No assumptions on my part friend. Humans can not reproduce from engaging in sexual acts with animals. Thus this behavior is done for the purpose of "sexual gratification"...or "recreation" as I put it in my previous post. Bestiality often occurs between men and other male animals. I'll let you judge what type of sexual acts are performed during such unions.

Originally posted by BackFire
Homosexuality is between two consenting human adults, both of which can understand and comprehend the meaning of sex and marriage.

Bestiality is between a man and an animal that can't give valid consent and doesn't comprehend the action that is happening. Big difference between the two.

Depends on how one defines "consent." In nature..many animals actually "couple", which is defined by many as being the animal equivalent to human marriage. Elephants, certain types of birds, and various other mammals are obvious examples of such behaviors. One could indeed make a reasonable argument..equating animal "coupling" to human behavior, and an animal's ability to to consent to such a "lifetime" union such as marriage.

Originally posted by BackFire
The two aren't inherently connected. People get married without ever subscribing to that idea, some marry and never have children.

True. But the possibility of producing offspring between such a union does exist.

Originally posted by BackFire
Marriage is simply a recognition of the love between two people, that's recognized by the government, procreation has nothing to do with it.

Not necessarily. In many cultures, marriage does indeed give the implication that the two individuals enaging in such a union need to be able to procreate. This need for procreation, has helped establish legal concepts such as inheritance, social class, etc.

Originally posted by BackFire
Avoiding my question. Two heterosexual people get married who aren't able to have children, how is this different then homosexual's getting married?

Would you oppose this on the same basis, since, according to you, marriage is primarily about procreation? The end result would be the same. Two people are married for the sake of love who can't produce offspring themselves. Also, it's quite ironic that you are saying I'm making improper comparisons between two pairs of human beings who can't procreate, while you are under the incorrect belief that comparing homosexual and bestial sex is in some way sound.

My comparisons are based off of possibilities and facts. Unlike heterosexual unions..neither bestiality nor homosexuality create the possibility of producing offspring.

Originally posted by BackFire
You're "clear results" is just pathetic trolling, sadly, probably not intended, and it's quite disgusting hearing your honest, and moronic views on homosexuality.

Also, on another note, I weep for your child, who would honestly probably be better of with a homosexual parent then you. I certainly hope he adopts more common sense when he grows up then you have.

Truth be told..I feel the same way about the views yourself and many others. The fact that you all liken certain explicit sexual behaviors as representing "love" is appalling..and just another overall example of the general decline of "common sense" and "human decency" in today's world.

Originally posted by BackFire
Hemorrhoids have nothing to do with homosexuality. This is again based on the broken idea that anal sex = homosexual sex, which, as has been said in the past, is often not the case. Just another sloppy and factually incorrect assumption you are making.

Again, oral/anal sex happens in both heterosexual and homosexual relationships, it's not mutually exclusive to one type.

STD's are running rampant in both heterosexual and homosexual relationships. As long as the person is smart and uses protection, it won't matter what sexual preference they are. Again, STD's, like every other "clear observation" (which, might I add, are baseless and only observed by you) you've listed is not exclusive to homosexuality.

Anal sex/oral sex/and masterbation..are the only sexual acts that "homosexuals" can engage in. These sexual acts do indeed provide a higher risk of one spreading and contracting STD's. There are no clear biological or social benefits equated with one engaging is such acts.

Originally posted by BackFire
Yes, bigotry, as has been shown in the previous segments of this post.

Homosexuality is no more or less rewarding then heterosexuality. Both involve two willing adults, and both involve the same emotions, feelings, and level of love and involvement between the two parties.

No bigotry. Just truth. But sadly..the truth often times hurts. Same sex unions do not offer the possibility of offspring. You can debate this point all you wish, but this basic truth will remain the same.

Originally posted by BackFire
Also, if you oppose unnatural behaviors then you should oppose marriage itself. The idea of one person spending their entire life with another person is unnatural in and of itself.

More foolishness on your part BF. "Coupling" is indeed a natural behavior in the animal kingdom. As is producing offspring for the sake of the survival of a species. Of course all of this depends really on whether or not you all want to compare human and animal behaviors..and thus far..I'm not sure if you all really want to do that. Thus far most of what I've heard is just back and forth arguments..likening human to animal behavior when it assists in supporting some selfish perverted purpose.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Polygamy I handled in my original post; incest would come under the same barrier of practical reasons, because legal links already exist between family members. How close a blood relationship has to be before it is actually incestuous is a question for each society to handle on its own.

But "legal links" are not the same as the assumed legal "benefits" 2 individuals gain from the institution of marriage.

In addition..legal links also exist between those who engage in homosexual behavior. Anyone can will their inheritance to anyone else..regardless of their sexual preference, or take out a life insurance policy, and make their "partner/spouse/child etc the main beneficiary. One can also adopt children...regardless of their sexual preference. So why should same sex unions, be the only alternative lifestyles..legally recognized as "marriage." I don't believe that to be fair application of the law in the slightest.

Moving on..basically the true argument really comes down to this..

Should one make "behavior 1" the legal equivalent of "behavior 2"?

I don't think so..because the different behaviors produce different results. Some have the ability to offer society obvious benefits, while others do not.

Some laws need to be broken..others do not. I believe that marriage categorizes as one of those standards that should be left as it is. When one has to constantly redifine what a concept such as marriage should be..then the end definition usually ends up being based off of anarchic standards.

"In addition..legal links also exist between those who engage in homosexual behavior."

Yes, but by that logic, legal links already exist between absolutely anyone at all in a relationship, and so any form of marriage would be illegal.

Again, a common sense view here dictates that the situation is obviously not legally the same when it comes to siblings or parent/child.

Meanwhile- they have only produced different results by your definition of marriage.

But the more accepted definition of marriage these days is a civil and legal bond taken to formalise the love between two people; this is just as applicable to homosexuals and heterosexuals; people do not really define off-spring as the point or purpose of marriage any more.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Some laws need to be broken..others do not.

And who the hell do you think you are to be the one to decide?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And who the hell do you think you are to be the one to decide?

you are asking the same 'person' who thinks he knows the reason gay people are gay, dispite what all gay people swear to. oh you were being rhetorical. my bad 😛

Exactly, this is why he has no social life; his head is too big to fit out the fricking door.

just admit it.
you CHOSE to be gay as a means of pissing off conservatives.

well dont push your ideals on me buddy!!!

Not entirely for the sake of reproduction..but the possibility of reproduction exists between heterosexual couples. It does not exist between same sex couples.

Again, this is irrelevant to the ACTUAL meaning of marriage. However, Homosexuals can have offsprings, they can adopt, they can artificially inseminate, and so fourth. They jsut can't have children between the two of them by simply having sex with one another.

Well it depends on how you define the terminology.."expression of love."
I wouldn't categorize anal sex, cunnilingus, or mutual masterbation as "expressions of love." I'd categorize them as "sexual acts."

Homosexuality by its very definition..is not defined by emotions..but rather, it's defined by "sexual attraction." But you are correct about one thing, one can indeed express love for their fellow man, without engaging in any sexual behavior with him.

That's fine, but again, that's nothing more then you're opinion, one that is based on your subjective morals/religious belief. These acts can be a form of expressing love for gay people. Just because homosexuality isn't defined by love or emotion doesn't mean that love and emotion doesn't exist in homosexual relationships, Heterosexuality also isn't defined by "love", but a sexual attraction, another similarity between the two. Also, as you semi-alluded to, Homosexuals often express love without ever penetrating.

No assumptions on my part friend. Humans can not reproduce from engaging in sexual acts with animals. Thus this behavior is done for the purpose of "sexual gratification"...or "recreation" as I put it in my previous post. Bestiality often occurs between men and other male animals. I'll let you judge what type of sexual acts are performed during such unions.

This whole thing is an assumption, you're assuming that most of the time it's between a male animal and a male person. Where is the cold hard data to support this. This seems like another "whob only" observation that doesn't actually exist outside of your mind/opinion. I never said bestiality NEVER involves anal penetration, simply that I don't believe it to be often, as you claim.

Depends on how one defines "consent." In nature..many animals actually "couple", which is defined by many as being the animal equivalent to human marriage. Elephants, certain types of birds, and various other mammals are obvious examples of such behaviors. One could indeed make a reasonable argument..equating animal "coupling" to human behavior, and an animal's ability to to consent to such a "lifetime" union such as marriage.

One could, but it wouldn't be according to this countries and many other countries necessary consent. Also, they have to comprehend marriage as an institution, understand the consequences and such, which can't be done.

True. But the possibility of producing offspring between such a union does exist.

Which again, has nothing to do with this countries definition of marriage.

Not necessarily. In many cultures, marriage does indeed give the implication that the two individuals enaging in such a union need to be able to procreate. This need for procreation, has helped establish legal concepts such as inheritance, social class, etc.

Since when are we talking about any culture other than ours? Again, in the modern worlds definition of marriage, procreation has nothing to do with it.

Truth be told..I feel the same way about the views yourself and many others. The fact that you all liken certain explicit sexual behaviors as representing "love" is appalling..and just another overall example of the general decline of "common sense" and "human decency" in today's world.

You know, there's more to expressing love then just penis/vaginal intercourse, there are more ways to express love then what is the norm. And homosexuals can do all of them except vaginal penetration. They do express love to one another, and their love can be just a valid and strong as anyone elses. This is why I believe they should be allowed to be married.

Anal sex/oral sex/and masterbation..are the only sexual acts that "homosexuals" can engage in. These sexual acts do indeed provide a higher risk of one spreading and contracting STD's. There are no clear biological or social benefits equated with one engaging is such acts.

Not true at all. Anal sex is the only sex act mentioned that has a higher probability of STD's then vaginal sex. Oral sex is significantly safer then vaginal sex, and masterbation offers almost no risk at all. So now only people who's sex can offer biological or social benefits should be allowed to get married? The majority of straight marriages offer no benefit, but it's still allowed. And again, marriage is about more then sex, their love offers the same self benefit as any other persons love.

No bigotry. Just truth. But sadly..the truth often times hurts. Same sex unions do not offer the possibility of offspring. You can debate this point all you wish, but this basic truth will remain the same.

Depends how you define "offspring". They can artificially inseminate, they can adopt, they have sex with a willing female. They just can't have children between themselves. But again, this is irrelevent to the actual meaning of marriage in this country.

More foolishness on your part BF. "Coupling" is indeed a natural behavior in the animal kingdom. As is producing offspring for the sake of the survival of a species. Of course all of this depends really on whether or not you all want to compare human and animal behaviors..and thus far..I'm not sure if you all really want to do that. Thus far most of what I've heard is just back and forth arguments..likening human to animal behavior when it assists in supporting some selfish perverted purpose.

Yes, coupling exists in nature, never denied that. But they don't force themselves to be with a single animal for their entire lives, they don't engage in a cermemony, and most of the time the coupling doesn't last nearly as long as the commitment of marriage is supposed to last. Also, again, procreation is a moot point here, one that I never even mentioned.

I'd like to know what is selfish about not standing in the way of two people who love eachother and who want to marry. As you and many others are doing. What's more selfish?