People seem to think Superman has some super weakness to magic, like its mere presence would kill him. This simply isn't the case. He's been blasted by all kinds of magic heavy hitters. He's no more weak to magic than anyone else, that's what "Superman's weakness" is. Having no mounted vulnerability like he does against everything else in the universe.
Hey Draco. Long time no see. I had that "argument" with Snoop. I also remembered having it with you along time ago. I said since then my opinion is that she hasent prove it.
Here is my take.:
"Is WW is stronger than DC Hercules? She should be. Think it about. The gods designed her to be as wise as Athena (and she is) to be faster than Hermes (she's that too)
When has she outraced Hermes. Or Mercury for that matter, considering that post crisis one was the avatar of the other.
"and all her other gifts. BUT she's was also gifted with the "Strength of Gaea greater than that of Hercules." This isn't merely a turn of phrase. This was a literal magic spell created by the gods that gave her the strength of Gaea via her avatar Demeter. "
And with this another questions arise. Gaea is "Skyfather" level isent it? And that would make Diana as strong as the planet. Or not?
When Demeter granted Diana strengh via the earth (Demeter an earth godess, not Gaea), it was as a -source-. She gets her strenght from the Earth. No measures or comparations wer given. We dont even know how strong Gaea is in her "true" form.
If she has the strenght of Earth itself (the planet) and not only as a source then why couldnt she moved the earth when she had to?
Also as a note, Heracles wasent meantioned as strenght comparation between the two either when she was granted strenght. We know of that "tag line" because she said so on panel when helping the others move the moon for example. In the exact same sentence where she said he has held the Earth.
Is the whole sentence wrong or not?
Least but not the last. When has she in the times they shared space in her comic showed to be stronger?
Originally posted by The Ion
Disagree. He blitzed her from the moon once and she started talking to him without trying to get up and defend. Furthermore she was stated to be holding back in the Sacrifice fight.
Wow you're just totally taking stuff out of context now. READ the ENTIRE issue. Wonder Woman was fully committed to killing BOTH Batman and Superman in that story. That was their entire mission. Every word of condemnation she said to Batman applied to them both equally and she explicitly says they were both the greastest heroes both turned oppressors.
Now you want us to laughly buy that she impaled Batman screaming "DIE OPPRESSOR!" and explicitly said she wasn't holding back in as many words, but for whatever reason decides to lay down and die against Kal?
For the record, she does try to defend herself. But Superman destroys her block and punches through her second bracelet having crushed the other one earlier with ease. It's not that she didn't try to get up or defend, it's that she COULDN'T in face of Superman's overwhelming power. Unless you're saying Diana is of the character to sacrifice the liberty of the nation/planet for her assuage her own relations. Please.
Meanwhile, the Sacrifice fight really has no bearing on the fight in S/B#15, it only serves to prove that Wonder Woman needs significant setup to position any kind of viable attack. Absent setup the tiara is easily dodged and similarly crushed. Meanwhile, both S/B#15 and Sacrifice demonstrate- absent any setup- the destructive capabilities of Superman out-the-gate. Bottom line, if Supes opens up full tilt S/B#15 is how it goes. WW needs to set Supes up for any of her attacks to work.
Originally posted by Hit and Run
Wouldn't her magic lasso hurt Superman when he touched it ?
Actually it CAN. Every notice that fiery glow around the lasso. Every wonder why the lasso glows at ALL. It's simply because it's quite literally on fire with Hestia's flames. If used offensively it is capable of burning anyone it touches...even gods themselves. If she used the lasso offensively on Superman, it would cause severe burns much like a person doused in gasoline in contact with a flaming match. Ouch.
However she doesn't like to do so because:
A) The lasso was not meant to be weapon. She has creed with this.
B) Such an effect would likely kill Superman. Hestia's flames are capable of burning gods themselves alive and they're quite hardy to magic. Using such a tactic against Superman would reduce him to a smoking corpse. And no way in hell would DC editors allow that to happen.
Originally posted by olympianAnd with this another questions arise. Gaea is "Skyfather" level isent it? And that would make Diana as strong as the planet. Or not?
Gaea is rarely seen (Except that crap Joe Kelly issue...) so we cannot properly gauge her power. BUT the Greek Gods hold her in reverance and seem to postulate that her power is greater than theirs.
Originally posted by olympian
When Demeter granted Diana strengh via the earth (Demeter an earth godess, not Gaea), it was as a -source-. She gets her strenght from the Earth. No measures or comparations wer given. We dont even know how strong Gaea is in her "true" form.
Incorrect. Demeter is an avatar of Gaea. In the first issue of Wonder Woman, Demeter directly stated "I grant her the strength of Gaea, the strength of the Earth itself." Which means she was quite literally given the strength of the Earth or more accurately Gaea.
True, no comparisions were given. But neither was it for the other patrons either. She was given the wisdom of Athena which granted her as much as intelligence as Athena, minus the whole all-seeing goddess jig. You have to understand that Diana was given the powers of her patrons in sum totality. She wasn't given a vague knock-off of their powers. She was quite literally given their powers. Since Gaea is the mother of all gods, the Earth acts as a sustenance of these powers. Since the Gaea acts as the patron of her strength, her strength doesn't seem to have any discernable limit.
Originally posted by olympian
If she has the strenght of Earth itself (the planet) and not only as a source then why couldnt she moved the earth when she had to?
The same reason Green Lantern could have just done it himself. Green Lantern could have moved either the moon or Earth himself. But he was downplayed (like Diana) for dramatic effect. And you know just as well as I do how many DC writers know little to nothing about the true extent of Diana's powers or history. They just think: flight, strength, lasso, bracelets. All done. Which is simply isn't the case.
Originally posted by olympian
Also as a note, Heracles wasent meantioned as strenght comparation between the two either when she was granted strenght. We know of that "tag line" because she said so on panel when helping the others move the moon for example. In the exact same sentence where she said he has held the Earth.
You're referring to JLA/Titans a fairly recent referance of her strength comparision to Hercules. And it's certainly not the first referance. The first reference in comparision was made by Zeus himself in WONDER WOMAN #24. Then again in WONDER WOMAN #110. It's been mentioned quite a few times because it was a key differance between Pre-Crisis WW and Post-Crisis WW. Pre merely had the strength of Hercules while Diana was designed to be better than the Pre-Crisis self with every power upgraded including her strength.
Originally posted by olympian
Least but not the last. When has she in the times they shared space in her comic showed to be stronger?
Definitively? Not that I can remember. I'll look around. Perhaps they fought when he was disguised as Champion. He DID come on to her. Coming on to a Amazon is never a smart move...
Originally posted by Draco69
However she doesn't like to do so because:A) The lasso was not meant to be weapon. She has creed with this.
B) Such an effect would likely kill Superman. Hestia's flames are capable of burning gods themselves alive and they're quite hardy to magic. Using such a tactic against Superman would reduce him to a smoking corpse. And no way in hell would DC editors allow that to happen.
You forgot:
C) And likely CAN'T. The lasso can only burn those it deems impure, a test passed by Superman in the past.
Overall her lariat has seem to been depowered... in Sacrifice or S/B#15, for example, Wonder Woman could not use it to simply compel Superman to see the Truth.
Originally posted by Demas
Wow you're just totally taking stuff out of context now. READ the ENTIRE issue. Wonder Woman was fully committed to killing BOTH Batman and Superman in that story. That was their entire mission. Every word of condemnation she said to Batman applied to them both equally and she explicitly says they were both the greastest heroes both turned oppressors.Now you want us to laughly buy that she impaled Batman screaming "DIE OPPRESSOR!" and explicitly said she wasn't holding back in as many words, but for whatever reason decides to lay down and die against Kal?
For the record, she does try to defend herself. But Superman destroys her block and punches through her second bracelet having crushed the other one earlier with ease. It's not that she didn't try to get up or defend, it's that she COULDN'T in face of Superman's overwhelming power. Unless you're saying Diana is of the character to sacrifice the liberty of the nation/planet for her assuage her own relations. Please.
Honey. You're refering to a JEPH LOEB issue. Jeph-Pussifying Darkseid-Loeb. The issue took place in an alternate reality and Jeph Loeb admitted in a Newsrama interview (because comic fans were in uproar of how in hell Superman could break WW's bracelets) Jeph Loeb tried to pass it off as the bracelets being made of a different substance. Again, this Jeph Loeb. Again this is Jeph Loeb. He's a REALLY bad writer when it comes to DC characters: Batman defeating Lady Shiva in one move (Impossible. Batman has consistently said he was inferior to Lady Shiva in the past. In a three-way battle with Lady Shiva and Richard Dragon, he didn't last two minutes) Supergirl defeating Raven by breaking out of her soul-self (Impossible. For heaven's sake it holds the entire dimension of Trigon(HELL) WITH hundreds of uber-demons.) Wonder Girl jobbing to her own damn lasso (Impossible. Supergirl should have been fried by holding a pulsating lasso conducting with MAGICAL lightening. Cassie (or Zeus) is the only one who can use the lasso offensively. Why? Because she's the daughter of Zeus. Batman defeating Black Lightening with a tazer (Black Lightening ABSORBS electricity WTF?!) Batman defeating Captain Marvel with a kick (Do I even have to say?) Batman defeating Green Lantern with a freeze ray (Oh god....)
On to the bracelets. THERE. IS. NO. WAY. IN. HELL. Superman could EVER break those damn bracelets.
Why? The ENTIRE Greek Pantheon (full of Skyfather-level beings) opened a can of whup-ass on those bracelets by unleashing ALL their power collectively and combining it into one massive beam. The beam was described as "infinite power". Such blast would destroy planets and entire galaxies. But the bracelets? Not a scratch. The beam reflected of her bracelets and WW was left unharmed.
You're telling me Superman can hit harder than the entire Greek Pantheon?
All in all, NEVER use Superman/Batman as canonical source. I feel sorry for the Ultimates comics. Get ready to see Captain America defeating Galactus with shield toss...
Originally posted by Demas
Meanwhile, the Sacrifice fight really has no bearing on the fight in S/B#15, it only serves to prove that Wonder Woman needs significant setup to position any kind of viable attack. Absent setup the tiara is easily dodged and similarly crushed. Meanwhile, both S/B#15 and Sacrifice demonstrate- absent any setup- the destructive capabilities of Superman out-the-gate. Bottom line, if Supes opens up full tilt S/B#15 is how it goes. WW needs to set Supes up for any of her attacks to work.
First off Superman ain't destroying the tiara. Gods have tried and failed. Just for future referance, Superman can't destroy ANY of Diana's magical items. They completely indestructible and immutable. It would take a truly cosmic being to do so. And Superman ain't dodging it either. The tiara is magically tuned to ALWAYS hit its target.
Second, AGAIN referring to the Jeph Loeb issue is like referring to Tom Cruise about abnormal psychology. Jeph Loeb is THAT bad.
It AMAZES me how many read "Sacrifice" incorrectly. In nutshell we saw a BLOODLUSTED, CRAZY Superman versus a HOLDING BACK, I DON'T WANT TO FIGHT YOU Wonder Woman. You make it seem like they were both giving it their all. WW certainly wasn't. She broke his ribs and slit his throat. But she certainly wasn't in her warrior-mode. If she was, Superman would be suffering from massive wounds from her lasso, several sword stab wounds and perhaps a few missing limbs.
I highly suggest you research WW. She isn't DC's Rogue.
Originally posted by Demas
You forgot:C) And likely CAN'T. The lasso can only burn those it deems impure, a test passed by Superman in the past.
Untrue. It can burn anyone that isn't being completely and utterly truthful. Which is none. Noone is completely and utterly truthful. Hell even the Angels of the Host weren't immune to its powers. It requires the absolute, unfettered truth. Superman, while certainly a Boy Scout, is does not fulfill that requirement.
And the lasso wields Gaea's/Hestia's (damn retcons...) flames that can be used offensively against objects as well. Is metal armour ethically pure too?
Originally posted by Demas
Overall her lariat has seem to been depowered... in Sacrifice or S/B#15, for example, Wonder Woman could not use it to simply compel Superman to see the Truth.
Her lariat wasn't depowered. You obviously don't read WW. It worked the last few times he was mind-controlled, and the reason it didn't work now was because DC editors said so and it's relevant to Infinite Crisis. Rucka admitted it was a glaring plot hole the size of Canada but he tried to make the best of it...and failed miserably.
Superman/Batman again. It was an ALTERNATE reality written by a hack writer who thinks Batman can knock out Captain Marvel with a kick. What's next Chuck Austen.
Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Wonder woman can't just bust out godwave on a whim. The time she did use it, she said herself that she couldn't control it and it would destroy her. Superman files in the sun, comes out. Wonderman has to recieve godwave from the gods and such, which while more powerful than sundip, requires a slow process to aquire. Sudipped superman shit kicks everyone.
Wonder Woman merely has to pray to the Godwave itself. Not the Greek Gods (in that issue she got the Godwave resided in the Greek Pantheon). The REAL Godwave is the source of all superpowers. The progenitor of the Speed Force. The reason Supermen, Wonder Women, and superpowers exist at all. Diana only requires a small moment to do so. Superman has to fly to the sun, sit there for a while, come out and THAN fight. Diana merely has to think "Give me the Godwave".
Can Diana only use it for a limited time? Yes. A few seconds at most. But when you're the most powerful being in existence, time is irrelevant. WW just blips him out of existance.
Watch out, Drooling Fanboy in the house!
You can hate a writer to your hearts content but it doesn't prevent it from being cited in this forum regardless. And what you see with S/B is more iconic/classic representations of characters rather than one's steeped in fanboy continuity... bottom-line is that DC Editorial gave it a by and it passed into canon whether you like it or not.
You're telling me Superman can hit harder than the entire Greek Pantheon?
It certainly wasn't above him when he fought them in "The Pantheon of Gods" storyline, intending to make him a god- hah, Diana's superior- in the process.
First off Superman ain't destroying the tiara.
Broken bracelets. 😆
And Superman ain't dodging it either. The tiara is magically tuned to ALWAYS hit its target.
And yet I have the issues of Wonder Woman where she describes the flight of her tiara as that of a boomerang and a skill to be trained in. But now it's a heat-seeking smart-missle with a mind of its own... gotcha.
saw a BLOODLUSTED, CRAZY Superman
The key point. Unable to respond tactically to Wonder Woman, forced to parse everything to elaborate and inaccurate visions. Meanwhile, everytime he's been "clear" headed, he's come up victorious by far.
I highly suggest you research WW. She isn't DC's Rogue.
Research is fine... bowing down in adoring worship is a whole other ballgame.
Now, there is bad writing and then there is BAD WRITING, see Spiderman vs Firelord. One bad writer shouldn't permantly downgrade a character. The problem in my opinion is the change is WonderWoman's role in the DCU. She has grown from being little more than a secretary for the JLA to being Superman's equal. But this transition hasn't been smooth and many writers wobble back and forth to each extreme. See Alex Ross' version in Kingdom Come compared to the aforementioned Jeph Loeb version.
Personally, I see her as superior to Superman in the fact that she has a willingness to take sometimes violent action if she thinks it is the last option. While Superman always holds back, its just in his nature and the few exceptions prove the rule.
Originally posted by Demas
Watch out, Drooling Fanboy in the house!
That much is apparent. For heaven's sake, we all love Superman but this quite ridiculous.
Originally posted by Demas
You can hate a writer to your hearts content but it doesn't prevent it from being cited in this forum regardless.
Unless its PIS. Which in this case it is. I already proved that its impossible for Superman (even sundipped) to break those lassoes as Skyfather-level and other cosmic foes have tried and failed. Even Cronos wielding the Eternity Axe which wielded the powers of nearly a dozen godly pantheons (with some of the Angel Host) failed to break the bracelets. Superman breaking the bracelets with a simple, two-inches away jab is clearly not gonna happen. Again, you clearly know next to nothing about Wonder Woman so you you're basing your assumptions on nothing but bias and lack of knowledge. Let's say you know nothing about Captain America nor his shield. You read a comic where Daredevil destroys it with a kick. You make a fool of yourself quoting a comic where Daredevil broke CA's shield with a kick. This is a fair analogy of what you're arguing here.
Originally posted by Demas
And what you see with S/B is more iconic/classic representations of characters rather than one's steeped in fanboy continuity...
S/B is just merely a hearken to the Pre-Crisis days. It's just a fun romp for older fans who miss the ridiculous plotlines where Superman fixes a timeline by fixing it.
Originally posted by Demas
bottom-line is that DC Editorial gave it a by and it passed into canon whether you like it or not.
Again. It's an alternate reality written with any regard to the characters actual power levels. I guess Batman defeating Green Lantern with a freeze beam is canon too right? Riiight.
In this form, PIS is ignored and disregarded with referance to actual potential and real powersets. Spider-Man vs. Firelord events in Superman/Batman are simply ignored much like Guardian of Alpha Flight defeating Galactus.
Originally posted by Demas
It certainly wasn't above him when he fought them in "The Pantheon of Gods" storyline, intending to make him a god- hah, Diana's superior- in the process.
You making a literal fool of yourself. Why would you refer to an Elseworlds tale where Lois Lane becomes Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman in this reality is a Nazi? 😬
Originally posted by Demas
Broken bracelets. 😆
I already described why it's impossible for it to happen.
Originally posted by Demas
And yet I have the issues of Wonder Woman where she describes the flight of her tiara as that of a boomerang and a skill to be trained in. But now it's a heat-seeking smart-missle with a mind of its own... gotcha.
Wonder Woman #114. It was enchanted by Pan as a gift for freeing him from Circe's influence. Please don't argue to me about WW's capablities. 😬 You'll just get curbstomped.
Originally posted by Demas
The key point. Unable to respond tactically to Wonder Woman, forced to parse everything to elaborate and inaccurate visions. [QUOTE=5763896]Originally posted by Demas
[B]Meanwhile, everytime he's been "clear" headed, he's come up victorious by far.
Wonder Woman wasn't attempting to even fight Superman. Just stall him. Superman was going ape-shit on her. Wonder Woman was just attempting to get his crazy ass of her and get to Max Lord. It wasn't even truly a battle. How can it be a battle when one opponent isn't attempting to battle her opponent.
Originally posted by Demas
Meanwhile, everytime he's been "clear" headed, he's come up victorious by far.
Untrue. They've stalemated each other every time barring alternate realities. Never have they ever truly attempted battle each other. Either because of mind control, deception or simply because of disagreement.
Originally posted by Demas
Research is fine... bowing down in adoring worship is a whole other ballgame.
Which is clearly what you're doing. Don't label as fanboy when you don't even have a slightest clue of who and what WW is.
Wow, look at the Drooling Fanboy! 🙄
Unless its PIS. Which in this case it is.
Yet we've seen the Lasso and the bracelet's brake in JLA as well.
In this form, PIS is ignored and disregarded with referance to actual potential and real powersets. Spider-Man vs. Firelord events in Superman/Batman are simply ignored much like Guardian of Alpha Flight defeating Galactus.
Actually those are borrowed guidelines. Frankly the repeated defeat of Wonder Woman speaks for itself and recognizes her place in the DCU heirarchy both editorially, in comics, and amongst the fans. Only the hearts of drooling goddess worshippers does she have the tools to create a victory.
Wonder Woman #114. It was enchanted by Pan as a gift for freeing him from Circe's influence. Please don't argue to me about WW's capablities.
Wishful thinking. I can think of several recent WW stories where, if true, the plot would be significantly simplified by tying the tiara to the end of her lasso and asking it to fetch... instead, we see the physicality involved making it possible to dodge. Clinging to an ability granted years ago and never seen since is like claiming the X-Mansion is still invisible to detection based on a 60's blessing.
Continuity goes to the victors... much like Superman's continual superiority over Wonder Woman. Oh well, maybe one day the world will see things the way you do, Fanboy.
Well probably not. Until then we can wait confidently for Supes to defeat WW yet again. 😂
Regarding S/B, not even considering your ridiculous out-of-context protests, let's consider how "out of canon" S/B is, let's see:
Captain Atom's death/departure.
Lex Luthor goes mad and vacates the presidency.
Crisis first mentioned.
Supergirl returns to the DCU.
Kryptonite returns to the Earth.
Darksied's imprisonment.
Yup entirely self-contained with no impact on significant plot-points in the current DCU... obviously a series of non-canon tales! 🙄
The best thing is that, post-S/B#15, Supes and Batman retained their memories, which means Superman still has the precise tactical knowledge of how to completely defeat a bloodlusted Wonder Woman. Her chances are looking worse and worse.
Originally posted by Demas
Wow, look at the Drooling Fanboy! 🙄
Call me that again and I will be forced to tell a moderator. And believe me I have several mods in my pocket...
Originally posted by Demas
Yet we've seen the Lasso and the bracelet's brake in JLA as well.
The bracelets have never been broken in JLA. Lying about events that never happened is quite pathetic. 😬
The lasso was broken not by physical force. You clearly didn't read the story correctly and judging by your intelligence this is not surprising.
The lasso was broken because quite simply Diana lied to herself. As the Goddess of Truth, this is a big no-no. Since the lasso is merely conduit for Diana as the Spirit of Truth and the Absolute Truth, the lasso was broken. Unfortunately this caused creation itself to break down. But no the lasso has never been broken by physical force and this is the only time in actual canon that the lasso has broken. And it certainly wasn't by Superman
Originally posted by Demas
Actually those are borrowed guidelines.
Borrowed guidelines? It's the rules of the forum. We ignore the events of PIS, CIS, or simply bad writing when it comes to rumbles. If you want to quote bad writing, and SvFL events be my guest but your credibility will be shot to hell.
Originally posted by Demas
Frankly the repeated defeat of Wonder Woman speaks for itself and recognizes her place in the DCU heirarchy both editorially, in comics, and amongst the fans.
"Her place"? What in heaven's name does that mean? I'm not even sure I want to know. A little sexist perhaps. 😬
She has no repeated defeats canonically against Superman. It has always been a stalemate. The rule of thumb for DC is: Superman can't lose to a WOMAN, and we certainly can't have Wonder Woman beating our golden boy and we can't show Superman beating UP a woman...so let's just stalemate them everytime. And that's what they did. Hell their first fight in 1969 was shown to be stalemate. It's simply tradition.
And we can simply apply to this to Wolverine. He's the beloved of editorials, in comics and amongst fans. And we continually see him defeating characters he shouldn't be able to beat or beating characters easily he should beat easily. Same thing applies. And it doesn't make any less of PIS or any less ridiculous.
By your logic, Wolverine can beat Superman because he's the most popular character nowadays.
Originally posted by Demas
Only the hearts of drooling goddess worshippers does she have the tools to create a victory.
She most certainly does. You don't think so because A) You obviously have disdain for Wonder Woman barring your comments of drooling fanboys, her having "her place" and your utter lack of knowledge about the character. Is Superman more likely to win in a straight-out fight? Yes. Is it a curbstomp like you believe? Absolutely not. This is an even battle that could go either way. Superman has the tools to beat Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman has the tools to beat Superman. You're just to blind to see thus.
Originally posted by Demas
Wishful thinking.
You don't think at all, honey....
Originally posted by Demas
I can think of several recent WW stories where, if true, the plot would be significantly simplified by tying the tiara to the end of her lasso and asking it to fetch...instead, we see the physicality involved making it possible to dodge.
I can think of several Superman stories where Superman could just simply speedblitz his opponent. And yet he has problems with Toyman and Metallo....
I can also think of several Green Lantern stories where Green Lantern can simply use his ring to turn of his opponent's powers. And yet he problems with a mutated shark.
I can also think of nearly of every Flash story that doesn't contain Zoom or Reverse Flash that Flash could simply speedblitz every opponent he meets. But he has problems with a guy who throws boomerangs...
As you can see this is what we call PIS. Plot Induced Stupidity. And DC is FILLED with it. The logical explanation you posted as no weight whatsoever for your "argument".
Originally posted by Demas
Clinging to an ability granted years ago and never seen since is like claiming the X-Mansion is still invisible to detection based on a 60's blessing.
Oh please. Diana used this maneuver dozens of times. Most recently against Rama and Devastation and Cheetah. Again, you're not making any sense and failing miserably.
Thor has not shown the ability to absorb energy attacks or stop time with his hammer for years. And yet many posters still argue these tactics. Why? Because they're part of his character. And viable in rumbles.
Originally posted by Demas
Continuity goes to the victors... much like Superman's continual superiority over Wonder Woman.
Again, you're sprouting nonsense out of nowhere. Wonder Woman and Superman have stalemated each other continuously over the years. Either you're reading fan fiction...
Continuity goes to the victors? Let's see. We continuously see Batman manhandle Superman. We also continuously see Wolverine beat or stalemate the Hulk. Can they realistically beat either of these characters? No. But we see it continuously happen. As you can see, your "logic" fails miserably. You simply don't understand the purpose of this battle.
Originally posted by Demas
Oh well, maybe one day the world will see things the way you do, Fanboy.
It's Draco69. Fanboy is the other guy.
Actually several people have. Darkcrawler. Ion. Dizzle. They agree that it could go either way and WW is most certainly capable of beating Superman and vice versa.
Originally posted by Demas
Well probably not. Until then we can wait confidently for Supes to defeat WW yet again. 😂
Not before we see Batman hand Superman his ass. 😉
Originally posted by Demas
Regarding S/B, not even considering your ridiculous out-of-context protests, let's consider how "out of canon" S/B is, let's see:Captain Atom's death/departure.
Lex Luthor goes mad and vacates the presidency.
Crisis first mentioned.
Supergirl returns to the DCU.
Kryptonite returns to the Earth.
Darksied's imprisonment.Yup entirely self-contained with no impact on significant plot-points in the current DCU... obviously a series of non-canon tales! 🙄
Those are all significant events that took place in DCU correct. For story purposes only however. But there are other events that are simply mars of DC continuity which to many comic fans discredits the book's credibility in rumbles which makes Superman/Batman USELESS in Versus Forum. Marvel's Contest of Champions II was also a canonical event that happened for story purposes and had several long-lasting effects. But we simply ignore here? Why? Because we see Black Widow beating X-Force and Wonder Man as well as Wolverine beating Hercules with bone claws. Similarly Superman/Batman is a credible as Spider-Man defeating Firelord (which is also canon) Why?
We see:
Batman defeating Lady Shiva in one move.
Batman defeating Black Lightening with a tazer
Batman defeating Green Lantern with a freeze beam
Batman turning Captain Marvel back to a child with a simple kick
Wonder Woman deflecting Darkseid's Omega Beams (they should have simply gone AROUND her)
Batman somehow surviving a beating from Darkseid. And no, wearing a armour worn by his very soldiers won't protect Batman.
Batman somehow lasting for more than 3 seconds with Wonder Woman in combat.
Superman defeating Darkseid where Darkseid simply ignores the fact that he has reality-manipulation powers, teleportation and other goodies.
Superman possessing "Boom-Tube" vision 🤨
Batman defeating Solomon Grundy (who regular schools the entire Justice Society) with nerve pinch and gas (he's DEAD he doesn't need to breath)
THIS is why S/B is regulary ridiculed in rumble forums. It's just so laughable on many levels. Which is why we all take S/B with a grain of salt. We recognize the validity of the story...but we scoff at the quality or validity of the fights that take place in the comic.
Originally posted by Demas
The best thing is that, post-S/B#15, Supes and Batman retained their memories, which means Superman still has the precise tactical knowledge of how to completely defeat a bloodlusted Wonder Woman. Her chances are looking worse and worse.
Please. He clearly took down a far, less powerful Wonder Woman. (Which makes me wonder. Why would the Legion feel it was necessary to get rid of Aquaman but not Wonder Woman who is a far worse threat?) She clearly had no superspeed (or Batman would have died in two second flats) Her durability was crap (which is why Batman actually hurt with a karate chop). And her bracelets obviously weren't forged from the Shield of Aegis wielded by Zeus which survived assaults from the Spectre himself.
I just find completely hilarious you're trying to argue the validity of Superman/Batman in the Versus Forum. What's next DK2?