Originally posted by GM Nebaris
For one thing, when he was elected to the council, he was the youngest to ever do so.Name one thing that Sidious or Yoda did that compares to Windu singlehandedly defeating an army of B-2 battle droids and a massive seismic tank, without his lightsaber for much of the battle.
I believe that happened in the Clone Wars cartoons. Am I correct?
Originally posted by GM Nebaris
So what if it did. And people refer to the feat in many different sources.
Lol . . .
You do understand that the Clone Wars cartoon overpowers characters with abilities that are inconsistent with the movies, right?
I believe in the Clone Wars cartoons, Yoda was able to:
- lift a C-9979 landing platform.
- Use mind-tricks on Captain Typho (who is hardly weak-willed).
- Dissipate and redirect Force Lightning (which we KNOW that Mace cannot do).
Then of course you have several sources that indicate Mace being second only to Yoda. That means he was top-dog on the Council and in power as far as the Jedi are concerned - except for Yoda, who is more powerful than him.
The databank says that. The databank also refers to Sidious vs Yoda as "the duel between the most powerful practitioners of the Light and Dark sides".
Mace is good. Extremely good. On Dooku's level. But, Yoda and Sidious are more powerful.
Originally posted by Escape81
Lol . . .You do understand that the Clone Wars cartoon overpowers characters with abilities that are inconsistent with the movies, right?
I believe in the Clone Wars cartoons, Yoda was able to:
- lift a C-9979 landing platform.
- Use mind-tricks on Captain Typho (who is hardly weak-willed).
- Dissipate and redirect Force Lightning (which we KNOW that Mace cannot do).
Clone wars overpowers characters? Since when?
And LMAO. How do those 3 feats exaggerate Yoda's power?
Originally posted by Escape81
Then of course you have several sources that indicate Mace being second only to Yoda. That means he was top-dog on the Council and in power as far as the Jedi are concerned - except for Yoda, who is more powerful than him.The databank says that. The databank also refers to Sidious vs Yoda as "the duel between the most powerful practitioners of the Light and Dark sides".
Mace is good. Extremely good. On Dooku's level. But, Yoda and Sidious are more powerful.
And you also have many sources stating otherwise. Many people considered Yoda to be the wisest, and Windu to be the most powerful.
Then there is also the fact that Windu was able to defeat Sidious while Yoda was not.
Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Clone wars overpowers characters? Since when?And LMAO. How do those 3 feats exaggerate Yoda's power?
1. Have you seen a C-9979 landing craft? Might wanna check it out.
2. Point being that "mind tricks only work on the weak minded", and yet it seems sufficient enough to work on Padme Amidala's head of security.
3. Let's see. Yoda is the only person who can handle Palpatine's lightning at point-blank range. He can not only handle it, but he can redirect it as well.
As I recall, Windu got his ass fried by Palpatine.
Originally posted by GM Nebaris
And you also have many sources stating otherwise. Many people considered Yoda to be the wisest, and Windu to be the most powerful.
Then there is also the fact that Windu was able to defeat Sidious while Yoda was not.
In a saber-to-saber confrontation! And then there's the whole possibility that Palpatine was going easy on Mace.
a) Mace Windu has seen more frontline action than almost any Jedi. He has an obligation to actively train with his lightsaber. He's in combat against Palpatine, who is the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, as well as a guy who hasn't actively touched his lightsaber for the better part of 13 years. I hope that he can at least go toe-to-toe with him.
b) Palpatine wasn't actively using the Force. He fought against Yoda a hell of a lot harder than he did against Mace. Palpatine > Mace in the Force and Yoda > Mace in the Force.
c) The battle with Yoda and Palpatine ended in a stalemate. Why? Because they were the most powerful practitioners of the Force in the movie. In the entire PT. Mace is like Dooku. Just Number Two.
Aaaaaaand, in all cases, Windu has been cited to be second only to Yoda. In Dark Rendezvous (which is just as canon as Clone Wars), Windu himself states that he is not Yoda's equal or superior.
Originally posted by Escape81
1. Have you seen a C-9979 landing craft? Might wanna check it out.2. Point being that "mind tricks only work on the weak minded", and yet it seems sufficient enough to work on Padme Amidala's head of security.
3. Let's see. Yoda is the only person who can handle Palpatine's lightning at point-blank range. He can not only handle it, but he can redirect it as well.
As I recall, Windu got his ass fried by Palpatine.
1. Hardly too impressive. Yoda lifting one is still not as great as what Windu achieved.
2. Shows that Yoda has a strong willpower, but hardly too impressive.
3. Did you watch ROTS? The bit where Windu redirected Palps lightning back and messed up his face?
The point is, these feats don't put Yoda above Windu and you have still failed to prove tha the CW cartoon exaggerates the abilities of the jed.
1. Hardly too impressive. Yoda lifting one is still not as great as what Windu achieved.
Nope. Means that Yoda is Windu's definate superior in the Force.
2. Shows that Yoda has a strong willpower, but hardly too impressive.
Y'know, your "hardly too impressive" bit is getting old. I could easily say the same about Revan-related crap. But, anyways...
It shows that Yoda can defy the limits of the mind trick to use on "strong willed" people. Mace never did it. Thus again proving Yoda is superior to Mace in the Force.
3. Did you watch ROTS? The bit where Windu redirected Palps lightning back and messed up his face?
I watched him do it with his lightsaber - but when he was unarmed, he got fried.
Originally posted by Escape81
In a saber-to-saber confrontation! And then there's the whole possibility that Palpatine was going easy on Mace.a) Mace Windu has seen more frontline action than almost any Jedi. He has an obligation to actively train with his lightsaber. He's in combat against Palpatine, who is the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, as well as a guy who hasn't actively touched his lightsaber for the better part of 13 years. I hope that he can at least go toe-to-toe with him.
b) Palpatine wasn't actively using the Force. He fought against Yoda a hell of a lot harder than he did against Mace. Palpatine > Mace in the Force and Yoda > Mace in the Force.
c) The battle with Yoda and Palpatine ended in a stalemate. Why? Because they were the most powerful practitioners of the Force in the movie. In the entire PT. Mace is like Dooku. Just Number Two.
Aaaaaaand, in all cases, Windu has been cited to be second only to Yoda. In Dark Rendezvous (which is just as canon as Clone Wars), Windu himself states that he is not Yoda's equal or superior.
GL confirms that Sidious was trying his hardest and that Windu was superior.
Originally posted by Escape81
Nope. Means that Yoda is Windu's definate superior in the Force.
Hardly. Mace has shown far greater feats in the CW cartoons, Shatterpoint, The Movies and other EU related stuff.
Originally posted by Escape81
It shows that Yoda can defy the limits of the mind trick to use on "strong willed" people. Mace never did it. Thus again proving Yoda is superior to Mace in the Force.
Prove that Mace couldn't do it.
Originally posted by Escape81
I watched him do it with his lightsaber - but when he was unarmed, he got fried.
That was because Anakin had just sliced his arm off and he was in agony.
Hardly. Mace has shown far greater feats in the CW cartoons, Shatterpoint, The Movies and other EU related stuff.
You say so. But, as I said before, your opinion = not very valuable.
Prove that Mace couldn't do it.
Why didn't he use it on Palpatine when he went to arrest him?
That was because Anakin had just sliced his arm off and he was in agony.
He had one arm left, and if he is as powerful as you say, he would've deflected it with ease, conquered the pain, killed Palpatine, and went medieval on Anakin.
But *gasp* he didn't!
Originally posted by GM Nebaris
He really did.
No, he really didn't.
He said that Mace "overpowered" Palpatine in that situation, not that he was more powerful. I argued this before. If Palpatine was holding back, Mace still - by definition - overpowered Palpatine and there is a LOT of evidence that indicates Palpatine holding back.
Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Hardly. Mace has shown far greater feats in the CW cartoons, Shatterpoint, The Movies and other EU related stuff.Prove that Mace couldn't do it.
That was because Anakin had just sliced his arm off and he was in agony.
Lol, Mace has shown better feats because we haven't seen Palpatine do shit until ROTS. He was a chancellor during the clone wars, what would we see him do, WTFowning the senate?