british indie stuff!WOOHOO!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well, not everything with a guitar in it is rock. The only problem with being THAT generalising is that there would, again, be wrong labelling. There ARE differences between rock and metal though. Not massively so, but they are there if you are into music enough to notice. Which I am. They are noticeable. Britpop is another kind of pop. So if anything it'd go under pop.

So I just uses the standard genres. I've said all this. It's the shitty subs and sub-subs that annoy me. Genres do exist, but there's no need for many of them.

-AC

Taken from BBC Radio 2 Tommy Vance

Ray Davies would become expert at chronicling the neuroses of repressed Englishmen, and this song positively seethes with tension and sexual confusion. One of the greatest riff-based songs ever written, it’s occasionally

Song facts

Composer Ray Davies

Genre Rock

Album You Really Got Me

Released 1964

UK Chart 1
tagged as the first ever heavy metal record, confirmed when Van Halen covered it on their explosive debut in 1978. Almost primeval in its simplicity, the riff builds on colossal double stopped power chords, modulating ever upwards to an ecstatic repetition of the title before plunging back down into the driving root note.

The tension explodes into Dave Davies' guitar solo, which positively tears out of the speakers. Literally - the raw sound was achieved by taking a razor blade to the speaker cones.

You Really Got Me was The Kinks' third single. Their previous efforts had flopped, prompting Ray to adopt a harder approach. It was recorded twice, the first version deemed not raw enough, and the band borrowed £200 to re-record it with American producer Shel Talmy. Ironically, given its status as one of the great guitar rockers, it was originally written on Ray's parent's piano.

Going straight to the top of the charts, You Really Got Me's gonzo glory was enormously influential, not least on The Who. Their debut single, I Can’t Explain, also produced by Talmy, was written by Pete Townsend in direct imitation of Davies' proto-punk classic, and mined a similar seam of adolescent romantic angst.

Not that many differences really 🙂 Trust me

La-de-dah, etc etc etc.

Anyone else dislike Brendan Flowers? Johnny Borell? Pete Doherty?

And anybody heard Carl Barat's new band? (sounds like early Libs, tres good...)

-AC you Gremlin! 😱

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Taken from BBC Radio 2 Tommy Vance

Ray Davies would become expert at chronicling the neuroses of repressed Englishmen, and this song positively seethes with tension and sexual confusion. One of the greatest riff-based songs ever written, it’s occasionally

Song facts

Composer Ray Davies

Genre Rock

Album You Really Got Me

Released 1964

UK Chart 1
tagged as the first ever heavy metal record, confirmed when Van Halen covered it on their explosive debut in 1978. Almost primeval in its simplicity, the riff builds on colossal double stopped power chords, modulating ever upwards to an ecstatic repetition of the title before plunging back down into the driving root note.

The tension explodes into Dave Davies' guitar solo, which positively tears out of the speakers. Literally - the raw sound was achieved by taking a razor blade to the speaker cones.

You Really Got Me was The Kinks' third single. Their previous efforts had flopped, prompting Ray to adopt a harder approach. It was recorded twice, the first version deemed not raw enough, and the band borrowed £200 to re-record it with American producer Shel Talmy. Ironically, given its status as one of the great guitar rockers, it was originally written on Ray's parent's piano.

Going straight to the top of the charts, You Really Got Me's gonzo glory was enormously influential, not least on The Who. Their debut single, I Can’t Explain, also produced by Talmy, was written by Pete Townsend in direct imitation of Davies' proto-punk classic, and mined a similar seam of adolescent romantic angst.

Not that many differences really 🙂 Trust me

Why do you bail out and retrieve some transcript when you're in a jam? Oh well.

As for that being the first metal song, it's arguable. Secondly, what is your point with all that? What exactly is the point you are trying to make? I never said there were many differences between rock and metal, just that they were noticeable if you were into music enough.

I wish you'd read my posts. It's like debating with someone with my grandfather.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why do you bail out and retrieve some transcript when you're in a jam? Oh well.

As for that being the first metal song, it's arguable. Secondly, what is your point with all that? What exactly is the point you are trying to make? I never said there were many differences between rock and metal, just that they were noticeable if you were into music enough.

I wish you'd read my posts. It's like debating with someone with my grandfather.

-AC

So tell me what are these differences, How would early Thin Lizzy be distinguised from most AOR bands. What do you class Foreigner and Journey as?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en&q=%22you+really+got+me%22+The+Kinks+heavy+metal&btnG=Search

59 000 + web pages think it was the first heavy metal song, many quite reputable!

"(8)AC's getting owned and has to resort to childish remarks, resort to childish remarks, resort to childish remarks(8)"

Nicely, if awkwardly fitting the rhythmn of The Wheels On the Bus....coming under the label of a 'nursery rhyme', for the benefit of AC.

Exanda, continue to shadow me and I'll report you. I've dealt with you enough.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
So tell me what are these differences, How would early Thin Lizzy be distinguised from most AOR bands. What do you class Foreigner and Journey as?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en&q=%22you+really+got+me%22+The+Kinks+heavy+metal&btnG=Search

59 000 + web pages think it was the first heavy metal song, many quite reputable!

I class Foreigner and Journey as terrible. Out of my care.

Metal vocals are different, as is the speed and technique of guitar playing, drumming etc.

Many millions of people think Britney Spears is great, doesn't make them right. Shame on you for conforming to mass opinion. Moreover, it's arguable. Second, it's not even relevant. We're not discussing what was the first metal song. You asked what the differences were between metal and rock, I told you.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Exanda, continue to shadow me and I'll report you. I've dealt with you enough.

I class Foreigner and Journey as terrible. Out of my care.

Metal vocals are different, as is the speed and technique of guitar playing, drumming etc.

Many millions of people think Britney Spears is great, doesn't make them right. Shame on you for conforming to mass opinion. Moreover, it's arguable. Second, it's not even relevant. We're not discussing what was the first metal song. You asked what the differences were between metal and rock, I told you.

-AC

I never stated an opinion on them, I asked you what they were.

The Kinks are not Britney Spears are you saying the Kinks were untalented in any way?

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I never stated an opinion on them, I asked you what they were.

The Kinks are not Britney Spears are you saying the Kinks were untalented in any way?

I swear you have the attention span of a hen. I was referencing you making the claim that 50,000 google sites believe something. Them believing such doesn't make it true.

This is my point, read it because you seem to be missing pretty much everything: I'm not trying to discuss what the first metal song is, just saying that there are differences between metal and rock. I showed you what these were upon request.

Are we done?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I swear you have the attention span of a hen. I was referencing you making the claim that 50,000 google sites believe something. Them believing such doesn't make it true.

This is my point, read it because you seem to be missing pretty much everything: I'm not trying to discuss what the first metal song is, just saying that there are differences between metal and rock. I showed you what these were upon request.

Are we done?

-AC

I beg to differ actually you didn't show me, you made a statement. You said singing style made something Heavy metal as did dumming style. hmmm I ask you Thin Lizzy never sounded much like Motorhead to me in there early days. They did try to become heavier. Steve Lukather of Toto certainly plays many "Heavy Metal" solos. I think you can label a song better than you can label a group as part of a genre. It's not my attention span it's that the argument I was getting at was different to your understanding of it again. You want to label groups, I think you can only really label songs.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I beg to differ actually you didn't show me, you made a statement. You said singing style made something Heavy metal as did dumming style. hmmm I ask you Thin Lizzy never sounded much like Motorhead to me in there early days. They did try to become heavier. Steve Lukather of Toto certainly plays many "Heavy Metal" solos. I think you can label a song better than you can label a group as part of a genre. It's not my attention span it's that the argument I was getting at was different to your understanding of it again. You want to label groups, I think you can only really label songs.

This is where your attention span fails you. You asked what the differences were between metal and rock. I showed you. You didn't ask for examples, you asked what the differences were.

Examples: Audioslave are a rock band, Metallica are a metal band. Led Zeppelin are a rock band, Pantera are a metal band.

You THINKING that you can only label songs doesn't mean that you are right. Metal is different ENOUGH to have a genre. The music is different, played differently and classed differently. I'm not saying that elements of each don't filter through, I'm saying that there are two separate genres.

Please try figuring out what it is you want to say before you say it please.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This is where your attention span fails you. You asked what the differences were between metal and rock. I showed you. You didn't ask for examples, you asked what the differences were.

Examples: Audioslave are a rock band, Metallica are a metal band. Led Zeppelin are a rock band, Pantera are a metal band.

You THINKING that you can only label songs doesn't mean that you are right. Metal is different ENOUGH to have a genre. The music is different, played differently and classed differently. I'm not saying that elements of each don't filter through, I'm saying that there are two separate genres.

Please try figuring out what it is you want to say before you say it please.

-AC

Kindly explain the similarities between Don't fear the Reaper BOC and Motorhead by Hawkwind. Two heavy Metal standards and tell me why they are both Heavy Metal.

Please tell me why "Rocking all over the World" Status Quo is Heavymetal and what it has in common with Paranoid by Black Sabbath - Why all these bands are classed as Heavy Metal. Labels fail 🙂 As has your argument imo.

- end

🙂

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Kindly explain the similarities between Don't fear the Reaper BOC and Motorhead by Hawkwind. Two heavy Metal standards and tell me why they are both Heavy Metal.

Explain why they are SIMILAR? Who's talking about similar? They both have a very TRADITIONAL metal guitar and vocal sound. Metal isn't so much like those bands now, just like rock isn't so much like Zeppelin. They've both evolved respectively and while they're both similar genres, they both differ. Not enormously so, but they do.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Please tell me why "Rocking all over the World" Status Quo is Heavymetal and what it has in common with Paranoid by Black Sabbath - Why all these bands are classed as Heavy Metal. Labels fail 🙂 As has your argument imo.

- end

🙂

...You're a valued debater in the CB forum...why? Anyway:

Status Quo aren't metal, they're a rock band. Hence why yes, labels fail. Especially when people like you completely miss points, examples and any shred of sense or knowledge. Black Sabbath are arguably the inventors of heavy metal. The very deep, heavy, loud guitar sound (due to Iommi's slacked strings) was imitated for years. It had never been heard before.

My whole point was that labels fail, for goodness sake. What do you do on this forum? Post, half read my reply, go do something else and then come back and reply with whatever's in your mind? You're being so irrelevant in some kind of an attempt to keep this debate going.

Established genres are fine. Subgenres (in many cases) and sub-subgenres are not. End of debate.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Explain why they are SIMILAR? Who's talking about similar? They both have a very TRADITIONAL metal guitar and vocal sound. Metal isn't so much like those bands now, just like rock isn't so much like Zeppelin. They've both evolved respectively and while they're both similar genres, they both differ. Not enormously so, but they do.

...You're a valued debater in the CB forum...why? Anyway:

Status Quo aren't metal, they're a rock band. Hence why yes, labels fail. Especially when people like you completely miss points, examples and any shred of sense or knowledge. Black Sabbath are arguably the inventors of heavy metal. The very deep, heavy, loud guitar sound (due to Iommi's slacked strings) was imitated for years. It had never been heard before.

My whole point was that labels fail, for goodness sake. What do you do on this forum? Post, half read my reply, go do something else and then come back and reply with whatever's in your mind? You're being so irrelevant in some kind of an attempt to keep this debate going.

Established genres are fine. Subgenres (in many cases) and sub-subgenres are not. End of debate.

-AC

Actually Quo were considered Metal in the eigthies, Psychedelic in the 60's and a 12 bar blues band for most of there life by anyone with a brain or understanding of music. 😉

Sorry! Thin Lizzy, if you listen to Jonny the Fox meets Jimmy the Weed, Bad rep or any of there Pre Jailbreak stuff did not sound like Led Zepplin in any sense, yet they were called Heavy Metal.

BOC are nowhere near as Blues based as Zepplin drawing far more from Blue Grass - Check out Survivor of the Psi Wars for proof.

Black Sabbath did some innovation, However they are, and thats the point considerably different to all the other bands mentioned.

I am not going to retort to your comment about the comic book forum - suffice to say noone there or on any board claims to own me 😉

AC you may be pseudo knowledgable about some aspects of Music but your age denies you breadth. You simply haven't been exposed to enough yet.
I guess the same went for comics.

-end

I'm sure you'd know more about the present crop of bands than me though.

labels don't work.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Actually Quo were considered Metal in the eigthies, Psychedelic in the 60's and a 12 bar blues band for most of there life by anyone with a brain or understanding of music. 😉

Note the fact that they were considered metal to you. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about what they actually are. That being a rock band. You can see this clearly from any of their albums. Psychedelic is short for psychedelic rock, so that would make them a rock band also. Then again this is only apparant to "anyone with a brain or understanding of music." I suggest you try getting one of those.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Sorry Thin Lizzy if you listen to Jonny the Fox meets Jimmy the Weed, Bad rep or any of there Pre Jailbreak stuff did not sound like Led Zepplin in any sense, yet they were called Heavy Metal.

Thin Lizzy were never a heavy metal band. Second, I know they didn't sound like Zeppelin. What the hell is wrong with you? Can you comprehend any point? I said there are similarities that show they are both rock bands, not that they made similar sounding music overall. Jesus.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
BOC are nowhere near as Blues based as Zepplin drawing far more from Blue Grass Check out Survivor of the Psi Wars for proof.

I know they're not, what are you talking about? The fact that they are a rock band remains though.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Black Sabbath did some innovation, However they are, and thats the point considerably different to all the other bands mentioned.

Form a coherent comment and we'll come back to this.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I am not going to retort to your comment about the comic book forum suffice to say noone there or on any board claims to own me 😉

Claims and factuality are two different things as we saw in the GDF most recently. Either way, you're not too hard to "own". It's not an accomplishment. Moving on:

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
AC you maybe pseudo knowledgable about some aspects of Music but your age denies you breadth. You simply haven't been exposed to enough yet.
I guess the same went for comics.

Hahahaha, oh this is perfect. Way to completely chicken out and invalidate anything you say. You certainly counter the belief that with age comes wisdom and intelligence.

Pulling the age card because you're getting schooled by someone younger than you? I know more than you do, I know how to make sense of what I am thinking more than you do. You lack the ability to read and comprehend a simple post.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I'm sure you'd know more about the present crop of bands than me though.

I know more about music than you do in general, Mr. Status Quo are heavy metal.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
labels don't work.

Needless labels don't work, established ones do. Unless you're an idi....oh. Welcome to the finish line. Knew you'd cross sooner or later.

-AC

On Quo 572 000 google hits say heavy metal - I still have all my Kerrangs from the early eighties which labelled them as such I never said they were.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Status+Quo+Heavy+Metal&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

It's not even worth arguing with your other comments for the same reason - you simply don't know enough about what you're talking about.

🙂

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
On Quo 592 google hits say heavy metal - I still have all my Kerrangs from the early eighties which labelled them as such

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Status+Quo+Heavy+Metal&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

It's not even worth arguing with your other comments for the same reason - you simply don't know enough about what you're talking about.

🙂

Google again, Whirly? When are you going to sustain a debate without resorting to the net? Google also has about a million sites saying that they have a Britney Spears sex tape in their possession, but we all know that's not true either. Wikipedia calls them a UK rock band. Wikipedia is more credible than google but I'm not needing it because I know enough to not go scrounging on the net and posting links here. You do. More to the point, most of those links don't cite Status Quo as heavy metal. They just have the words "heavy" and "metal" in the search. Cheap Whirly, very cheap.

You are leaning on google and you claim I know nothing about what I'm talking about? Laughable. Status Quo are a rock band.

No other replies I see, thought not 😉.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Google also has about a million sites saying that they have a Britney Spears sex tape, but we all know that's not true either. Wikipedia calls them a UK rock and roll band. Wikipedia is more credible than google but I'm not citing it or needing it because I know enough to not go scrounging on the net and posting links here. You do.

You are leaning on google and you claim I know nothing about what I'm talking about? Laughable. Status Quo are a rock band.

No other replies I see, thought not 😉.

-AC

No need to reply to the others that one is symptomatic of it. 572 000 hits : AC, I could do the same to the others.

It's no problem that people like you try and label groups in a genre and say things like its the drumming or guitar - it's not it's a label.

When you're older you'll get this.

🙂

and noone accused me of getting owned ealier in this thread 😉

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
No need to reply to the others that one is symptomatic of it. 572 000 hits : AC, I could do the same to the others.

It's no problem that people like you try and label groups in a genre and say things like its the drumming or guitar - it's not it's a label.

When you're older you'll get this.

🙂

and noone accused me of getting owned ealier in this thread 😉

There is need to reply to the others, you can't though. That's cool, just aids my point.

I'm not labelling, I'm ANTI-labelling except for established, distinguishable genres. You are the one not having a clue about the bs you are spitting out.

Kinda funny. What's funnier is that you edited an irrelevant bit onto the bottom whilst still refusing to reply to my relevant replies. People can accuse me of whatever they want, I proved differently. If you're not gonna reply to my posts, I'll consider you the same. I won't claim I've owned you because you're not exactly an accomplishment. I just expected better.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There is need to reply to the others, you can't though. That's cool, just aids my point.

I'm not labelling, I'm ANTI-labelling except for established, distinguishable genres. You are the one not having a clue about the bs you are spitting out.

Kinda funny.

-AC

Can't be bothered is more like - bs hmmm seems to be the general consensus in the music forum on your opinions as far as I can see from the last two nights.

Good! you don't believe in labels then why tell people Heavy Metal is a label with charicteristics you can define. I've given you a lot of heavy metal bands - most have little in common except they all have "some" overlong guitar solos on "some" tracks. label records if you must, avoid attaching bands to genres, Blurs Song 2 is punk - Blur are not (yes they are still a band).

it's not kinda funny - it's the ignorance of youth 🙂 Where's Perry Kevin? I won't claim I've owned you because another board member did earlier for me.

Schools out - you can go now 🙂

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Can't be bothered is more like - bs hmmm seems to be the general consensus in the music forum on your opinions as far as I can see from the last two nights.

Hahaha, you and Scooter. There was me hoping to get sleep tonight.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Good! you don't believe in labels then why tell people Heavy Metal is a label with charicteristics you can define. I've given you a lot of heavy metal bands - most have little in common except they all have "some" overlong guitar solos on "some" tracks. label records if you must, avoid genres Blurs Song 2 is punk - Blur are not (yes they are still a band).

Because heavy metal has distinguishable features, this is a fact. It has nothing to do with what you believe. I said to you that it's not uncommon for the two genres to share elements, but they are different genres. The differences aren't major, but they are specific enough to BE a different genre. It's not just harder rock, it's technically different. You not having the perceptive ability to register this isn't something I will continue to help you with.

You've gave me bands that you continually claim are heavy metal such as Thin Lizzy and Status Quo. Bands that are quite clearly rock bands. You're out of your depth and it's your denial that isn't saving you.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I won't claim I've owned you because another board member did earlier.

You continue to add bits onto the end of your posts and then call me childish. Sad and hypocritical. Either way, I have knowledge backing me up. You have the "I'm older, so I know more but don't have to show it." We'll see who gets further.

-AC