who is better, vince carter or dwayne wade?

as much as i would like to say vince is better, wade proved to me in the playoffs that his name certainly belongs with the top guards in the nba. i hate the heat though. basically all the players i hate in the nba are in that team. im alright with wade, but im not really a shaq fan, i despise alonzo mourning (if you know im a nets fan, you should know why), i hate antoine, gp, posey is just really annoying. and so on.

i really hate those players who are like hitchhikers, and they just go from team to team trying to desperately win a ring. (sigh) such babies.

You could say that about Walker, Mourning, and GP, but Posey doesn't really belong on that list of hitchhikers. He got traded to the Heat. He didn't push for it. He just had lucky timing. Same with Jason Williams (I don't like him much for other reasons, but in this situation he is in the clear).

i know, posey and williams arent hitchhikers. i really have nothing against williams, but posey is just annoying because he always seems to break your heart at the last second. like when nets are down by 2, and vince drives and makes a layup, but at the last second, posey steps in front of him to take the charge. it simply drives me nuts. im like...yea!...damn it.

Oh, I see. I thought your last sentence was in reference to the players you mentioned. I don't think Posey has done too many of those types of things and its not really something you can blame him for, but I understand when somebody does something against your team.

yea, posey isnt that bad. actually he's a pretty good player, considering no one ever talks about him. i just think mourning's too much of a coward to me.

Much of your reasons for disliking the Heat was the reason I was rooting for Dallas. But I'm overall happy because the Heat was one of my fav teams all year.

one of the reasons why i dislike the heat and like the nets is because the heat have so many weapons and so much power and yet they struggle to make it past (of course they ultimately won the championship), but still with the talent they have, they should have dominated and won pretty easily. yet, they practically relied on wade the whole time to bail out their asses. and with SHAQ especially they should have won it in an easier fashion. and plus, every heat fan says shaq saves his best games for the playoffs and the finals. YEAH, sure....(cough...5 points, 6 rebounds in 28 minutes against dallas...cough) he had 1 foul that game, so his limited minutes was not because of foul trouble. he was benched cause he, ummm....how can i phrase this....uhh...layed an egg.

on the flip side, the nets skill and power wise are terribly overrated and many simply say, "oh, they have the big 3 and krstic, so they're a great team, and they should dominate." as good of a team as they look, coming from a guy who watches a lot of their games, in me, i can safely say thats so not true. jason kidd is one the best point guards no doubt, but when a guy's shooting, and im talking about WIDE open shots, gets to the point where 75% of the shots are consistently bricks, its starts to get under your skin. and while jefferson is an ok shooter (he gets a lot of his points on dunks and on the fastbreak), and vince is also ok (he was great last year, but this year he dropped, and oh yeah, he shoots 3's way too much), the only consistent shooter on the nets is krstic, yes the center is the most consistent. and while krstic is skilled, i mean c'mon the guy's 7 foot and he plays weaker than some guards. all im asking for is a semi-dominant center, but krstic is nowhere near that. thats why he takes so many jumpers, he's gets pushed out of the paint. and when you notice that jason collins is the starting power foward, you can sorta get my drift. also, aside from cliffy, whose a little too old imo, no one and i mean no one steps up from the bench. as far as bench, big men, powerful, balanced, and consistent teams go, the nets are near the worst if not the worst in the nba. i thought lamond murray was going to help us, but he didnt do shit. and im serious, his role is shooting, and he shot worse than kidd! and jefferson, while he may be efficient, he's usually not there when the nets need him the most. and krstic plays like a high school player when his team needs him the most. so the only two that you can depend upon is carter and kidd, and the only 1 you can depend upon making big shots is carter, and thats a big stretch. considering all this, the nets were 49-33 during the regular season and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, and if cliff didnt abandon us, we might have made the miami series a contest. just the fact that with such a small franchise and a weak roster, the nets are able to do this, simply amazes me. imo, the knicks are stronger and more talented than the nets, and look where they are.

forgive me for such a long response, but i had to get this off my chest.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110

on the flip side, the nets skill and power wise are terribly overrated and many simply say, "oh, they have the big 3 and krstic, so they're a great team, and they should dominate."

The ironic thing is that I see that your argument (at least from the quoted part) could be flipped on the Heat (not to really argue, but just to point out). You said the Heat "should have dominated and won pretty easily" much like your claim that many people say 'Nets should dominate.' However, I think the Heat players are overrated and they should not be able to dominate. Shaq, GP, Walker and Zo are bigger names on paper than their actual value, making the team not as stacked as they seem. You said that the only guys the Nets can depend on are Carter and Kidd. The Heat on the other hand can really only depend on Wade.

In other words, Heat only has one superstar even though people think they have more. They win based on Wade with support of medicre players and shouldn't be expected to dominate much like you dislike people thinking Nets should dominate.

the heat may be overrated, but not to the extend of the nets. see, while you may think alonzo is mediocre, he would be a starter and a key player in the nets. gary payton would as well, as he is an excellent defender and he can shoot the ball really well, and he would play point to backup kidd. im not really talking about how many superstars the heat have. (thats why the detroit pistons won a championship) just how consistent and how many weapons they can fire in their arsenal. and remember, walker was a starter in the mavs, celtics, hawks (of course). but in the heat, he was a bench player. and shaq, i dont think there should be an argument about him. he should dominate, because um...he's twice the size of everyone in the league, but nonetheless, he played poorly and there shouldn't be excuses. wade isnt the only one that can step up. the heat have a lot of weapons as i said. many of their BENCH players, were starters and key players for other teams. even posey, he started for memphis. and evem michael doleac who started when he was a knick (i know they're a bad team but still), barely gets any playing time for the heat. also, derek anderson, a starter for the blazers, barely got any playing time for the heat. udonis haslem, one of the great athletic rebounders in the nba. while, on the flip side, the nets who just signed eddie house, are going to praise him as their lead bench player and REALLY depend on him. while other teams would barely play him. see what i mean?

im not bashing what you said. but please im being generous here. say anything but, "the heat shouldnt have dominated and they're overrated." please, i mean if the nets acquired shaq from the heat, and nobody else, imagine how much more dominating they would be. and then now, imagine if the nets acquired all the heat players and removed their sucky bench. you cant even imagine how good they would be. if you look at it from this perspective, you can see just how spirited the nets are in being 49-33 with the worst bench in history. just add one dominat player. i dont care which, whether its shaq, wade, or even walker, and they jump straight into being championship contenders. see, the nets depend on and focus on every single player because they dont have many decent ones, while the heat, people say, "oh, they only have shaq and wade," when thats not true. the others just dont play up to their potentials. If someone like derek anderson, who the heat barely look at, came to the nets, the nets would honor him and kiss the lord (literally), from the way the nets reacted to acquiring house, they would be even more elated to get anderson, while the heat would barely see them. anderson would get a whole lot more minutes with the nets. thats the difference between the heat and the nets. see how much more powerful the heat are? also, having more decent players to turn to is not only better because the players are overall better, its better also because you dont have to rely on your starters so much. you can make many substitutions. do you know how much the nets have no choice but to rely on carter? do you know the plays they run? 80% percent of the time, they do iso with carter or jefferson.

I agree with what you said about the Nets. And I also agree that the Heat have more to work with than the Nets. In fact, I was in no way trying to invalidate your statement. All I'm saying is that similar arguments can be made about the Heat (to a lesser extent).

To clarify what I meant with Shaq, Zo, Walker and GP:
-Shaq, Zo and GP all look better on paper than they really are because of who they used to be. I really don't see Shaq or Zo as mediocre, but they are no longer superstars IMO, they just used to be. Shaq may still be the best C in the league, but I don't think there are any C superstars left. But based on their names and peoples' past thoughts of them, it makes them overrated
-GP I really do think has hit the mediocre mark. Hell, he is a backup to somebody once deemed by analysts as 'the worst starting PG in the league.' Jason Williams has improved some since that comment was first made but he still isn't anything great and GP backs him up. So again, GP used to be something great which skews views and makes him overrated.
-Walker, well, I hope I don't actually have to explain him but I will touch on him briefly just incase. He has been deemed "overrated" so much that I don't think he really is overrated anymore per se because the word is out on him. However, on paper it doesn't hinder peoples opinions because it is still a recognizable name and actually would boost peoples' opinion of the team (this works by way of representative heuristics if anybody here understands that psychological term).

alright, just checking. glad to see that you agree with me. i just wanted to make a few things straight. because im a realtively reasonable guy when it comes down to saying who's better and who deserved what. im a crazy nets fan, but i dont seem so much like one. so, i can basically understand a lot of disgreements others have with me, but this one, i seriously need to be agreed with, because its just simply unfair to say the nets and the heat are equally maned.

i really like vince carter, but when it comes down to it all he is an above average player who has extroardinary dunking ability.besides that D-wade beats him.he is better overall and is doing way better than VC when he was in his first few years in the league.Even though Vincanity took my breath away in the 00' dunk comp, u must b realistic, just look at the stats.Wade wins it.

no one's disagreeing with you, except tanjot of course. i was talking about how the nets chemistry is so overlooked.

I think Ryan mainly pays attention to the title of the threads anyway and not what conversations have come up since.

😆 I just re-read this whole thread. It's hilarious. 😆

Wade had A LOT of help from the refs in the finals.

VC is basically Dwade with a 3 point shot. Plus he has more experience.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Wade had A LOT of help from the refs in the finals.

VC is basically Dwade with a 3 point shot. Plus he has more experience.

No. The only thing VC is better then Wade at 3 point shooting. Everything else Wade is better by a considerable amount.

Dunking- Ill take VC

3 point shooting- Ill take VC

Mid range- Tied

Speed- Wade, but not that much faster

Defense- If were talking stealing, Dwade, but straight up man to man Ill take VC

Drive- Wade gets a lot of calls, VC is the better finisher

Experience- VC

What else is there?

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Dunking- Ill take VC

3 point shooting- Ill take VC

Mid range- Tied

Speed- Wade, but not that much faster

Defense- If were talking stealing, Dwade, but straight up man to man Ill take VC

Drive- Wade gets a lot of calls, VC is the better finisher

Experience- VC

What else is there?

Dunking doesn't mean much unless you are in a dunk contest. All that matters is if you score, not how you do it.

Mid range goes the Wade easily.

Defense is Wade also.

On the drive is Wade is an amazing finisher. Have you seen all the 3-point plays Wade has made that seem impossible?

VC has more expierence, but Wade plays like he has more. He has the perfect gameplan, get you team involved in the beginning, and then in the 4th quarter exlpode.

You also forgot clutch, which IMO is the most important, and easily goes to Wade.

Wade isnt more clutch than VC

And have you seen the amazing dunks and layups VC finishes his drives off with. Remember the 360 layup, and you mentioning the 3 point plays Wade gets only proves my point of him getting A LOT of help from the refs.