Eighth-Grader With Gun Shot by SWAT Team

Oh please....

PVS posted this before...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/14/teen.shot/index.html

"Nation said Ralph Penley was "angry" because he had spoken to police before he arrived at the school and told them Christopher did not have a real gun. Christopher's younger brother told school officials the same thing, Nation said. "

"One of Penley's classmates said he, too, thought the gun was real -- and that Penley was going to kill him -- until he grabbed the pistol and realized it was fake."

"Penley fled to an isolated alcove area and went into a restroom where he refused to speak with negotiators, the sheriff said."

Why did they end up shooting him?? they had every chance to know it wasn't real... and to top it all off he didn't even have any means of escape or even a hostage.. They could of easily tazered him or gased him...

It sometimes seems as though people are willing to go so far to preserve the life of a young person even if they're an idiot. Even to the point of a cop dying just for confirmation that the gun works.

I'm not saying this is the case, I'm saying it seems that way.

-AC

The police wont take any risks. If it looks real, it might be real. Though I agree that the situation could have been dealt with in a more delicate fashion.

How?

I agree totally that the use of non-lethal but instantly (literally) effective weaponry is something that should be used instead of police having guns, but since they do, they have the right to defend themselves with them.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Even to the point of a cop dying just for confirmation that the gun works.

I'm not saying this is the case, I'm saying it seems that way.

-AC

Yes but we are talking about 1 case in particular... Here the police had every advantage to take the suspect alive....

Sure there are going to be times where the suspect will never be taken alive, and will have a real gun.. then fine shoot them to save the inoccents...

Other wise I won't be long till the police open fire straight away cause they know you Might have a gun....

Whats wrong with them using tazers???

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Yes but we are talking about 1 case in particular... Here the police had every advantage to take the suspect alive....

Sure there are going to be times where the suspect will never be taken alive, and will have a real gun.. then fine shoot them to save the inoccents...

Other wise I won't be long till the police open fire straight away cause they know you Might have a gun....

Whats wrong with them using tazers???

The police won't always know if it's a real gun and in some cases, they won't want to find out. Until every police unit in the world is armed with some kind of totally instant stopping power, guns are going to be it.

The kid acted in a certain way and the cops reacted accordingly.

You can't say this is one case in particular and then make the prediction that police will soon shoot people on suspicion off the back of it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The police won't always know if it's a real gun and in some cases, they won't want to find out. Until every police unit in the world is armed with some kind of totally instant stopping power, guns are going to be it.

The kid acted in a certain way and the cops reacted accordingly.

You can't say this is one case in particular and then make the prediction that police will soon shoot people on suspicion off the back of it.

-AC

Yes... and if they don't know if its real or fake then I don't blame them for acting that way...

But when they get told 3 times and they can't handle a kid whos secluded himself....!!!!!

If you don't see anything wrong with them shooting him, thens whats to stop them shooting someone else cause they could of possibly had a gun in there bag???

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Yes... and if they don't know if its real or fake then I don't blame them for acting that way...

But when they get told 3 times and they can't handle a kid whos secluded himself....!!!!!

If you don't see anything wrong with them shooting him, thens whats to stop them shooting someone else cause they could of possibly had a gun in there bag???

If you can prove they were told 3 times before that it was fake, I'll agree with you. The kid threatened others, others lives were at stake.

Possibly having a gun in your BAG is a lot different to them actually seeing the gun in the kid's hand, him threatening people with it and also being of improper mental state, which is what the case was. This is obvious, like slap in the face obvious.

-AC

I suspect that they were not equipped well enough. If the suspect is in the toilets and surrounded by police, then the area should be secure.

Once secure Stun Grenades orflash bombs could have been deployed in the toilet. The effect of a stun grenade impairs both vision and hearing causing the victim to lose control of his balance. Something got to do with the choclea.

Through Ballistic shields, SWAT could have made their way into the room being covered from any fire and through heat-sensory vision goggles , they could have seen if the victim was incapacitated, therfore proceed to stun him (to be safe) and remove the weapon.

Obviosly, if the kid had a real gun it could be shot and bullets might ricochet, but these are SWAT we are talking of, they have kevlar suits and helmets and after all its part of the job. I dont even expect their job to be hunky dory either

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Exactly. Nobody can say "Well they should have found out first."

When? After the kid had possibly put a cap in one of their heads?

-AC

They shouldn't rush into a situation like this with just expecting a kid, who has probably seen too much tv, to realise that their threatening is to be taken incredibly serious and that he is stalemated.

But still.. The kid points the gun at them and they can only resort to the final solution wich is taking him out.
Pretty stupid.. They obviously panicked or something! 😆

Hahaha yeah, how stupid is it to panic when someone points a gun at you.

Pussies.

-AC

But see what you all fail to understand is...Remember some years back the whole cullibine school thing where those two kids went nuts and killed all those kids well it's stuff like that..that will always tell the cops to shoot first and ask queastion last because they don't want anything like that on there hands ever again!

neonight

It's Columbine. Just for the record.

what a screwed up world we live in...

Originally posted by neonight
But see what you all fail to understand is...Remember some years back the whole cullibine school thing where those two kids went nuts and killed all those kids well it's stuff like that..that will always tell the cops to shoot first and ask queastion last because they don't want anything like that on there hands ever again!

neonight

YER.... cept he was on is own in the toilets while the whole school had left... and the knew he didn't have a real gun....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahaha yeah, how stupid is it to panic when someone points a gun at you.

Pussies.

-AC

Well.. What I'm getting at is that I feel that they aren't handling situations responsible enough. They could have secured (in this case) the bathroom with ease and have had a major set of alternatives to handle this situation.

If someone points a gun at you and you have no clue whether it's real or not, what would you do in the event that you were armed with the ability to halt the proceedings?

You would do so.

I don't speak for anyone but myself usually, but I am going to make a judgement call here.

If a 15 year old young man raised a gun to you in a hostile situation, and you had no reason to believe it might be fake, and he threatened to shoot you...each and every single one of you people would shoot him back.

How do I know this? Because how many of you would risk getting killed to have a young man's continued life on your conscience?

-AC

I would've gotten out of the way knowing that even if I would keep standing, he still wouldn't be able to hit me.
Then handle the situation differently by using a flashbang or gas canister for example. That professionals get so intimidated and panick because of a kid is pretty silly to me.

Although a kid is more unpredictable than a mature (potential) criminal, they couldn't have expected to just be able to handle it with only a gun.

the fact that they put themselfs in the kids line of fire... They should of just segragated him and thought about it... instead he was aloud to aim at them... and they shot him... Highly unprofessional imo....

Originally posted by overlord
I would've gotten out of the way knowing that even if I would keep standing, he still wouldn't be able to hit me.
Then handle the situation differently by using a flashbang or gas canister for example. That professionals get so intimidated and panick because of a kid is pretty silly to me.

Look! It's Neo! You can't dodge bullets, my friend.

Second, it wasn't the kid they were afraid of, it was the fact that he was an unstable 15 year old with a gun that very well may have been real.

-AC