Darth Vader versus Asajj Ventress

Originally posted by darthsith19
Um, Sorgo, Vader didn't want to kill his son. He was obviously holding back. If he wasn't holding back why didn't he kill Luke when he had his saber to his throat? He cut off his ahnd to end the duel. What else was he going to do? He had no choice, unless he wished for the fight to go on forever. he needed to end the duel so he could talk to Luke and try to tuen him to the Dark Side.

You're missing the point, DS.

Darth Vader wasn't holding back. He wanted Luke as a tool to go to the Dark side. He would have killed him if he didn't turn, being why Luke jumped into a damn shaft. Vader would have just outdueled him and put a Lightsaber to his throat. Instead, he cut off his hand. Vader didn't care and he wasn't holding back.

Wait, so he went on all that time faking it with Luke in ESB? And he cut off his hand so that he could be a more useful Apprentice? Luke was contending with Vader and Vader tried to stop it using his full Dueling skills and in the end, he prevailed, cutting his Kids hand off.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I think DS is right here Sorgo.

Darth Vader wasn't holding back.

He would have killed him if he didn't turn, being why Luke jumped into a damn shaft.

Vader would have just outdueled him and put a Lightsaber to his throat. Instead, he cut off his hand. Vader didn't care and he wasn't holding back.

Wait, so he went on all that time faking it with Luke in ESB?

Well he wasn't trying to kill Luke. That means he was holding back.

HAHAHAHAHA! You are PAINFULLY wrong. If he was just trying to disable him and was having troubles, he would put his all into disabling him.

I guess if I put my all out into a Fist Fight, I am trying to kill someone. (According to you.)

It's pretty clear Vader only said he'd kill Luke if he didn't turn to please the Emperor. Says so in Shadows of the Emperor, ieven without reading it, though, it's really clear. Not sure if it's mentioned in the AC.

Ah... More Books? Disregarded.

Yeah! He'd kill Luke if he didn't turn. What does this have to do with Vader putting his all out on the table again? If Vader is trying his hardest to disable Luke, then he is TRYING. Vader was having troubles, being why he grunted a few times during their fight AND because he spent like eight to ten minutes trying to disable him.

I am guessing when Luke slashed Vader on the shoulder, Vader just let it happen? Or when Luke went to look at the debri falling, Vader cut his hand off instead of holding it to his throat? Vader wasn't holding back.

Okay, but he wasn't aiming to kill. You can't try your hardest on somebody with a lightsaber unless your trying to kill.

Wrong. Read my reply to the FIRST time you said that.

He wasn't going all-out on Luke as he would be if he were dueling Asajj. Happy now?

Why not? Why wouldn't he turn Asajj? Hell, what makes you think he wasn't going all out on Luke? He was trying to disable him and he was having troubles.

HAHAHAHAHA! You are PAINFULLY wrong.

If he was just trying to disable him and was having troubles, he would put his all into disabling him.

I guess if I put my all out into a Fist Fight, I am trying to kill someone. (According to you.)

Ah... More Books? Disregarded.

If Vader is trying his hardest to disable Luke, then he is TRYING.

I am guessing when Luke slashed Vader on the shoulder, Vader just let it happen?

Why wouldn't he turn Asajj?

Hell, what makes you think he wasn't going all out on Luke?

Notice your alone here.

Right back at you.

Did I say he was putting everything into disabling him?

So you think that Vader was trying to kill Luke? Or that Vader was "holding back", [sarcasm] which included the fake grunting he put on for his son and when he let his kid slash him with a Lightsaber? [/sarcasm]

Fist fights and lightsaber duels are very, very different.

The way I placed it in my Analogy? No.

This is an EU section. Get used to EU refrences.

Wrong. This is Star Wars Versus. It isn't really EU. And most Books are CRAP and aren't Canon. Especially when Authors have been known to favor a Character. LUCAS SAID IT HIMSELF! Not to mention Books aren't the only EU around.

Not trying to kill. Tell me Sorgo, when lightsaber dueling someone is it easier when your trying to kill your opponent or when your not trying to kill your oponent.

That depends on you, Not on a Laser sword.

Tell me DS19, In order for you to go all out on your opponent, does this mean you MUST kill him? Because that's the shit you tried handing to me earlier.

Did I say that?

No, but you're saying Vader was holding back when it's BULLSHIT.

Cause he HATES Asajj.

She is quite powerful, and If she was there, I don't think he'd put her to waste.

Or maybe she would put him to waste.

I'm not going to go over that again. Your wrong. Admit it for once, Sorgo. Your not always right.

Whoa.... Now f*ck that bullshit. I'm wrong? He was going all out. He wanted to disable Luke and he was having Troubles. He was grunting and his Shoulder was slashed. There is clear evidence he wasn't holding back on anything.

How about you learn this factor: YOU'RE Not always right.

Darthsith, you need to accept your wrong, i hate how you and Glentract don't own up to being wrong, when Sorgo and I do on many occasions.

Originally posted by calvin44
Darthsith, you need to accept your wrong, i hate how you and Glentract don't own up to being wrong, when Sorgo and I do on many occasions.

The difference is that you usually are infact wrong, when there has been no evidence showing that either Darthsith or I is wrong in this instance. I don't care if you think you are high and mighty because you have admitted to being wrong. It's a double-edged sword, perhaps you just have more occasions in which you are wrong to begin with.

Originally posted by Sorgo
[B]Notice your alone here.

Right back at you.

Did I say he was putting everything into disabling him?

So you think that Vader was trying to kill Luke? Or that Vader was "holding back", [sarcasm] which included the fake grunting he put on for his son and when he let his kid slash him with a Lightsaber? [/sarcasm]

Fist fights and lightsaber duels are very, very different.

The way I placed it in my Analogy? No.

This is an EU section. Get used to EU refrences.

Wrong. This is Star Wars Versus. It isn't really EU. And most Books are CRAP and aren't Canon. Especially when Authors have been known to favor a Character. LUCAS SAID IT HIMSELF! Not to mention Books aren't the only EU around.

Not trying to kill. Tell me Sorgo, when lightsaber dueling someone is it easier when your trying to kill your opponent or when your not trying to kill your oponent.

That depends on you, Not on a Laser sword.

Tell me DS19, In order for you to go all out on your opponent, does this mean you MUST kill him? Because that's the shit you tried handing to me earlier.

Did I say that?

No, but you're saying Vader was holding back when it's BULLSHIT.

Cause he HATES Asajj.

She is quite powerful, and If she was there, I don't think he'd put her to waste.

Or maybe she would put him to waste.

I'm not going to go over that again. Your wrong. Admit it for once, Sorgo. Your not always right.

Whoa.... Now f*ck that bullshit. I'm wrong? He was going all out. He wanted to disable Luke and he was having Troubles. He was grunting and his Shoulder was slashed. There is clear evidence he wasn't holding back on anything.

How about you learn this factor: YOU'RE Not always right. [/B]

Right back at you.

So you think that Vader was trying to kill Luke? Or that Vader was "holding back", [sarcasm] which included the fake grunting he put on for his son and when he let his kid slash him with a Lightsaber? [/sarcasm]

The way I placed it in my Analogy? No.

Wrong. This is Star Wars Versus. It isn't really EU. And most Books are CRAP and aren't Canon. Especially when Authors have been known to favor a Character. LUCAS SAID IT HIMSELF! Not to mention Books aren't the only EU around.

How about you learn this factor: YOU'RE Not always right.

Darthsith, you need to accept your wrong, i hate how you and Glentract don't own up to being wrong, when Sorgo and I do on many occasions.

You know, calvin44, I used to like you. But your being stubborn now. I've admited I'm wrong many times. It's like Glentract said.

I have nothing against you, i'm just sick of all these debates-turned-bashing, and I'm just trying to resolve some of it.

Glentract: I usually just give up on trying to prove your wrong cause it's impossible cause you just try top find ways around it. That is why you say "You are usually infact wrong",NO, it's just causeiI have better things to do then try to debate someone who will not admit they are wrong.

Prove me wrong then! Show that I am wrong. Do you expect me to take the word of someone who doesn't know that 1/4 of 20 is 5 as intelligent or that I would care whether or not we argue online. To prove me wrong, you are going to have to provide real, sound proof, which I have not seen you do. Right or wrong is in the eyes of the beholder. For you to accomplish anything worth sharing, you need to convince both that I am wrong, not just yourself.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Prove me wrong then! Show that I am wrong. Do you expect me to take the word of someone who doesn't know that 1/4 of 20 is 5 as intelligent or that I would care whether or not we argue online. To prove me wrong, you are going to have to provide real, sound proof, which I have not seen you do. Right or wrong is in the eyes of the beholder. For you to accomplish anything worth sharing, you need to convince both that I am wrong, not just yourself.

Originally posted by calvin44
I was saying that there are other people that aren't on that list, that should be on there, and that the list is flawed.

No, you said, "It's the certain Sith he killed that make him stronger than 75% of the people on that list. What other Jedi turned away from the force, and were stronger for it?"

Then I asked what makes you think he is in the top five and you said that he is not, but continued to proclaim that he is in the top 25% out of 20.

Do you honestly need a Buddy to contend with me?

Wait... It looks like I have a buddy as well. Stop drifting off. Whether Glentract is on your side or not is irrelevant to me.

Vader hurled debris at Luke, making him bloody and bruised and caused him to fall out of a Window and then he cuts his hand off and this all part of making him an Apprentice? Dude, Vader was trying his hardest to kill him. If Luke survives, He becomes an Apprentice. The Sith believe that the weak DO NOT deserve to walk among the Sith. If Luke could not withstand or overpower Vader, he did not deserve to be Sith.

Who said anything about killing your opponent while fistfighting? I said "Knocking out".

Oh I know. Once you supply me with sufficient proof that proves me wrong I'll admit. But the fact is, there is none. It was you guys here who reminded me it's much harder to figfht with a lightsaber when not going for the kill. This is also said in The Cestus Deception.

Another Book reference? I am not surprised.

And no it isn't. Not for certain Fighters. Everyone Fights differently.

It goes both ways, DS19.

Where is your proof that I'm wrong, Hmm?

Fine, no EU. Wait, that means Vader wins by default.

Is it not going through properly? My suggestion is that you try your hardest to understand my last post. I dislike having to repeat myself.

Sorgo, lol, he's never wrong because when he is he reverts to insults and drives his opponents away and then says he won. And, just so your aware, we're not even debating Vader vs. Asajj right now.

^ That one made me want to take my Keyboard and just f*cking smash it against my Monitor.

Do NOT insult my Intelligence with that Bullshit you posted.

I'm sick and tired of that crap from you.

Sorgo, you have to prove that you are right first before anyone else needs to prove that you are wrong.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sorgo, you have to prove that you are right first before anyone else needs to prove that you are wrong.

^ Pure Arrogance!

We both need to prove we are right or all we have is Theories.

Trying to put me in the Spotlight to buy yourself some time isn't gonna quite work out, 'kay?

By myself time? It's a message board, I can take as long as I want.

Not stepping back into this debate. I really don't care for darthsith/Glentract tagteams since I don't have the patience to fight both at the same time. And I can't say I agree with Calvin or Sorgo's methods either.

Vader makes two quick moves, hooking Luke's sword out of his hand and
sending it flying. Another lightning move at Luke's feet forces the
youth to jump back to protect himself from Vader's Sword.

Suddenly, Vader attacks so forcefully that Luke loses his balance and
falls back into the opening.

The
energy Luke has used to stop Vader has brought him to the point of
collapse.

A large pipe detaches and comes flying at Luke. He deflects it.
Sparking wires pull out of the wall and begin to whip at the youth.
Small tools and equipment come flying at him. Bombardment from all
sides, Luke does his best to deflect everything, but soon he is
bloodied and bruised.

Luke backs off along the narrow end of the gantry as Vader comes at
him, slashing at the young Jedi with his sword.

At that instant,
Vader's sword comes down across Luke's right forearm, cutting off his
hand and sending his sword flying.

Vader: All to easy. Perhaps you are not as strong as the Emperor thought.

Vader says this after trying to fill the Carbonite Chamber with the Carbonite WITH Luke in it.

Vader was NOT going easy on Luke. He would have killed Luke if Luke wasn't so good. The Sith believe that if you are not Strong enough, than you deserve death.

Vader was testing Luke with all of his power. If Luke could not overwhelm Vader or did not show more power than Vader, than in the eyes of a Sith, the Weak deserve DEATH and DEATH only.