Exar Kun and Ulic versus Sidious and Dooku

I think Dooku might be able to stop Ulic in a duel (not defeating him but stalemate him) because of his form II mastery and his experience. That won't matter because Kun will curbstomp Sidious in a lightsaber fight and I don't think that Sidious (even DE Sidious) would have enough time to drop a force storm on the place.

So I guess Exar would take Sidious first and then he and Ulic will kill Dooku. Even if Dooku would somehow manage to take Ulic down, he isn't a match for Kun.

Conclusion: Ulic and Exar win...

When Kun shows the skill to kill three skilled masters in seconds, or anyone in seconds, then he can speak...oh, wait, I forgot! He's got a ponytail, a scar and a double sided saber! Yes, that means he's awesome.
Sidious would destroy Exar in a force duel....and I fail to see why Ulic is considered so good

proof lightsnake? on how sidious owns him?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
When Kun shows the skill to kill three skilled masters in seconds, or anyone in seconds, then he can speak...oh, wait, I forgot! He's got a ponytail, a scar and a double sided saber! Yes, that means he's awesome.
Sidious would destroy Exar in a force duel....and I fail to see why Ulic is considered so good

I'm so glad that he's got his mind made up.

First off, you don't have to kill three jedi masters in under a minute to be Sidious' equivalent. Mace Windu hasn't done that. Neither has Yoda. Both contended with Sidious and arguably bested him in saber combat. So there goes that theory.

Second, Exar Kun is a lightsaber prodigy and master, who toyed with and beat the shit out of Vodo, who was renowned in his time for his lightsaber mastery (Or fighting mastery, if you will, since he rarely used a lightsaber anymore.) I could argue in a manner like you traditionally do and say that since Sidious hasn't bested a legendary lightsaber user in lightsaber combat like Kun has, Sidious would be curbstomped.

Third, you have no evidence to support that Sidious > Kun in a Force battle, but I'm sure you're willing to erupt into feat wars once I post this.

And fourth, Ulic was able to defeat a jedi in bladed combat once he was stripped of the force, and he defeated his brother and stalemated Kun. He IS good, period.

Toyed with? Exar only pulled out his double bladed saber when it was clear he wasn't winning without it. And when was Vodo reknowned as a fighter exactly?

And yes, the feat wars...however dare I use what they've actually done to test their strength. and Sidious hasn't bested a legendary fighter in lightsaber combat? Luke. DE Luke to be exact.

Ulic bested a JEdi in bladed combat when he was stripped of the Force? He was doing all he could to hold off Sylvar who was noticeably in a complete berserker rage....and killed his brother? You mean 'cut down a young man who was not trying to fight Ulic?' His stalemat eof Kun could easily be seen as Kun's deficiency at that point and not Ulic's strength. Ulic had trouble at first against Satal Keto even

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Toyed with? Exar only pulled out his double bladed saber when it was clear he wasn't winning without it. And when was Vodo reknowned as a fighter exactly?

Exar defeated the grandmaster of the order (Vodo) where Sidious was beaten by the grandmaster of the order (Yoda). Your point being ?

And yes, the feat wars...however dare I use what they've actually done to test their strength.

Logical fallancy and you do it again and again. You always come up with "but Sidious destroyed the Jedi order". What does that have to do with Sidious personal power ? Did we see him run into the Temple on Coruscant and bash Jedi ? No...he sent a Legion of Clone Troopers to do the job. He reigned over a military regime for 2 decades. How does that say something about his personal power ? He had the control over a military force that had enough firepower to destroy everything else in the Galaxy and had superweapons able to destroy planets. Is that something he accomplished because of his sheer power ?

and Sidious hasn't bested a legendary fighter in lightsaber combat? Luke. DE Luke to be exact.

He bested DE Luke ? Ah...so "besting" is having your hand cut off ? And how was DE Luke a "legendary lightsaber duellist" compared to people like Yoda (who trained with that weapon for more than 800 years), Vodo (the same - 600 years), Mace (who invented his own style when he was a Padawan !) or Kun who was able to defeat the grandmaster of the Jedi order in a duel ?

Ulic bested a JEdi in bladed combat when he was stripped of the Force? He was doing all he could to hold off Sylvar who was noticeably in a complete berserker rage....and killed his brother? You mean 'cut down a young man who was not trying to fight Ulic?' His stalemat eof Kun could easily be seen as Kun's deficiency at that point and not Ulic's strength. Ulic had trouble at first against Satal Keto even

Yeah...Ulic bested a Jedi in lightsaber combat without having force powers (TOTJ: Redemption). Berseker rage ? The Dark Side makes you stronger in fights (that's the reason why Nick Gillard rated Anakin about Obi-Wan in terms of lightsaber fights). Not to mention that Ulic did destroy Warb Null and he did cut down King Ommin pretty much. And how would stalemating Kun could be seen as Kun's deficiency ? So Kun is weak because he got beaten by a person that was a great fighter before starting his Jedi training and has gone to several conflicts. If a Padawan would beat Yoda in a lightsaber fight: Would you say Yoda is weak or the Padawan is a lightsaber prodigy, eh ?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Exar defeated the grandmaster of the order (Vodo) where Sidious was beaten by the grandmaster of the order (Yoda). Your point being ?

Logical fallancy and you do it again and again. You always come up with "but Sidious destroyed the Jedi order". What does that have to do with Sidious personal power ? Did we see him run into the Temple on Coruscant and bash Jedi ? No...he sent a Legion of Clone Troopers to do the job. He reigned over a military regime for 2 decades. How does that say something about his personal power ? He had the control over a military force that had enough firepower to destroy everything else in the Galaxy and had superweapons able to destroy planets. Is that something he accomplished because of his sheer power ?

He bested DE Luke ? Ah...so "besting" is having your hand cut off ? And how was DE Luke a "legendary lightsaber duellist" compared to people like Yoda (who trained with that weapon for more than 800 years), Vodo (the same - 600 years), Mace (who invented his own style when he was a Padawan !) or Kun who was able to defeat the grandmaster of the Jedi order in a duel ?

Yeah...Ulic bested a Jedi in lightsaber combat without having force powers (TOTJ: Redemption). Berseker rage ? The Dark Side makes you stronger in fights (that's the reason why Nick Gillard rated Anakin about Obi-Wan in terms of lightsaber fights). Not to mention that Ulic did destroy Warb Null and he did cut down King Ommin pretty much. And how would stalemating Kun could be seen as Kun's deficiency ? So Kun is weak because he got beaten by a person that was a great fighter before starting his Jedi training and has gone to several conflicts. If a Padawan would beat Yoda in a lightsaber fight: Would you say Yoda is weak or the Padawan is a lightsaber prodigy, eh ?

Vodo grandmaster of the Order? The term 'grandmaster' wasn't even around then and Master Thon and Arca Jeth could have a few things to say about that....Grandmasters don;t think to relax on remote planets with three apprentices. And Sidious beaten by Yoda? Last I recall, Yoda scampered away and was dead even with Sidious.

You mean...show what they accomplished with the force to test their power?

First duel, with Luke alone, when Palpatine was in a new clone, Palpatine nearly destroyed Luke. And Luke had already used his saber to bring down an AT-AT. And considering Luke could actually match Palpatine...and Mace inventing his own style when he was a padawan? Proof. And I suppose we should ignore Palpatine killing Agen, Saesee and Kit. And Remind me where Vodo didn't give up agaisnt Exar Obi-wan style?

Sylvar was brushing the dark side and wasn't thinking clearly at all. Ulic held her off and convinced her to let go of her rage, that was it. And warb Null? Warb was a random scrub who appeared very briefly...and King Ommin? If by 'cut down' you mean 'sliced through a powerless old man's life support'...

And Kun was only stalemating an exhausted, wounded, sith poisoned Ulic...

Lightsnake, I'm rather tired of seeing people I respect debate with a liar and not call him out on said lies.

And Remind me where Vodo didn't give up against Exar Obi-wan style?

Toyed with? Exar only pulled out his double bladed saber when it was clear he wasn't winning without it.

Neither of your ridiculous assertions are supported by the comic. You're a liar and a fanboy. Kun wipes the floor with Sidious and Dooku, by himself. Ulic just seals the deal (and if you want to go into feat wars, I have plenty more ammunition).

In a fight of swords, I would most certainly hand this to Kun.

Must be said though...a staff is a poor substitute for a lightsaber...more weight and less maneuverability. *shrug*

You call ME a fanboy, IKC?
1. Explain them being deadlocked before Kun activated the double bladed saber
2. Explain Vodo's line of 'You and I will fight again' etc etc.
I forget where Kun killed three skilled Jedi in seconds. Go right on into feat wars, buddy. You want confirmation Sidious could wipe the floor with Kun in a force duel?

1) Deadlocked? You realize that it's only deadlocked on Vodo's part, right? Kun seems to be spending more time talking than fighting. And explain Kun's grins in all those panels if he's actually being stalemated by his old master. A man that's grinning during a fight is usually the man that's winning it.

2) Oh yes Lightsnake, he gave up. That's why in the last panel his arms are still holding up his staff in a defensive position and Kun just powers through his staff, which Vodo made "more powerful than (a) lightsaber." Vodo knew he was beaten but he didn't give up as you assert. See, your assertions beg for proof, and there is none.

Feat wars:

Note how Kun's blasts rip holes in both the monstrosity and the temple walls. I doubt that Sidious is made of harder stuff than either of those things. One blast, and Sidious dies.

Of course, Kun probably doesn't even need to do such a thing. I could, of course, argue that he kills Sidious with a wave of his hand like so.

Force battle: Kun wins.

Saber battle: Kun definitely wins.

1. Explain why, just before Exar ignites the other end of his saber, he's locked with Vodo, gritting his teeth. When is Kun smiling during that entire fight?

2. To vanish? Vodo would certainly need to prepare for death.

3. Oh yes, what a feat! Amazing, incredible! Too bad he's facing an enemy who can destroy an entire fleet with the force, tear a ship to pieces just to demonstrate a lesson to Leia....and what're those things Kun has on his arms? The only reason he survived? Could those be....Sith gauntlets? So it's not REALLY his power doing that?

1) Locked? Better take a closer look at the picture, Lightsnake. They aren't even touching when the second blade is activated. It is obvious that Kun is toying with Vodo throughout the entire fight. It is your assertion that it was a stalemate that begs for proof, not mine. And there's no proof to be found in the comic - you're basically saying that because Kun used overkill by igniting both ends then he couldn't do it with just one. Nonsense, prove up.

2) Idle speculation with no proof whatsoever. Vodo didn't give up, and you know it.

3) Wow, and what fleets is our esteemed Sidious going to be destroying in this fight? Oh? What's that? None? Most likely because he'll be too busy getting his ass handed to him by a blast from Kun's hand (which he can do repeatedly with no warm-up time as shown in the comic) or Kun's saber.

And as the rest of the planet has argued, Lightsnake, the fighters are not fighting naked. Ergo, whether its his own power or not is completely irrelevant. Kun and Ulic win.

Pwnt.

Nice job, men.

Now let's move on.

1. Which is why he's clearly showing exertion when they're locked? And perhaps he stepped back and then ignited the other end?

2. "You and I will fight again" etc etc.....then he vanishes. Yep, he in no way gave up.

3. Take that amulet away and see how well your precious Kun does. Whine whine, they won't fight naked! Well, too bad, if you're comparing someone' power, no boosters. Hey, maybe we'll give Sidious all he got from Korriban and Ziost! Why don't we see how well Kun does when force lightning that devastates an army is turned on him.

1) Clearly showing exertion hm? Care to point that out? As he's igniting the other end, the grin is back on his face, I point out. Again, put up or shut up. Prove it was a stalemate. You can't, because it wasn't.

2) Prove up. His quote only means that he knew he was beaten. That doesn't mean he gave up. Again, put up or shut up.

3) Oh, alright. Let's orchestrate the rules to ensure our favorite characters win!

Okay, Sidious doesn't get to use his arms or legs and he has to be hooked up to a machine that jabs him periodically with a fondue fork!

For one, your argument is nonsensical. This is a fight and not a comparison of natural power, and it is a contest that Sidious will lose. Two, you cannot prove that Sidious' natural force power is greater than Kun's (indeed, one would assume the opposite given that Kun's was the highest of his time).

1. That's hardly a grin when he activates the other end. Right before that, his eyes are narrowed and his teeth are gritting.

2. Well, gee, the idea they would fight again, and lo and behold they did...not to mention he had to prepare to die to vanish...

3. Key word: At the time. Whereas Sidious is described as, in the DE sourcebook, as the strongest Sith ever, has devastated fleets with the forces-might've helped Kun when the Jedi came a knocking- sucked the life and force energy out of....billions of people, received hands on training from the spirits of the Ancients, learned Jedi secrets, absorbed the power of a Sith holocron, Imbued machines with the power of the force, like Kun he showed himself a proficient alchemists, imbued men with the power of the Dark Side, destroyed a ship and blew a lightsaber to pieces just to prove a point to Leia, killed a small army of storm troopers with force lightning...

1) You're not proving up as I asked. Your claim that it was a stalemate is as baseless as you are a fanboy.

2) Ditto #1, put up or shut up. This is otherwise known as calling you out for proof. You have none.

3) Of his time I typed. Whereas ancient Sith are described in the actual material as "godlike," Kun himself curbstomps every single opponent that faces him during the Sith War, gathers more knowledge from both Jedi and Sith in six short months than Palpatine could hope to acquire in his lifetime (described as "more wealth and knowledge than (Kun) can ever use," by the narrator), can blast apart solid stone and alchemical monstrosities created by the master of alchemy himself (Sadow), can instakill one of the oldest and most experienced Jedi of all time, can toy with and utterly destroy the Grandmaster of the order, and freeze the Galactic Senate with its tens of thousands of members (at the least), etc etc.

Let's see Sidious do anything after Kun blasts him and creates a gaping empty space where his torso used to be.

1. What? Look at that pic...are they NOT trading blows for a time, then locking weapons, with Kun's teeth gritted?
2. Explain, if you will, how he vanishes and says they'll fight again in the fuiture if he hadn't prepared himself for death.

3. Kun fights one person during the Sith War. He can't defeat Ulic, though. And learned more than PAlpatine could ever hope for? Palpatine was described as learnining the darkest secrets of the Sith and learning from the spirits of the Ancients, who invited him to join them on Korriban. And Kun himself says it's more than he can ever use on Ossus...shame he never has a chance to read or implement any of it.
Amusing how it was the amulet doing all the work for him at that point in time...and Vodo the grandmaster? What of Thon or Arca? Grandmasters don't stay on backwater planets with three apprentices. And Kun was able to freeze everyone except who mattered: The Jedi. We know Palpatine paralyzed and fed from millions of people and force energy on Byss....and for some reason, blasting through a temple is a bit less impressive than destroying a ship and later on a fleet