Originally posted by illadelph12
not to mention the electromagnetic field Blitzkrieg would need to create to generate such a vortex would be drawing in anything metalic in his proximity, also throwing off the trajectory of Agent X's bullets (and effecting his mobility within a metal suit of armor). 👇
This question is directed to iladeph .
If the electro magnetic field that Blitzkreig is creating draws anything in thats metal then shouldn't vertigo and karate kid be dead ?
Originally posted by grey fox
This question is directed to iladeph .If the electro magnetic field that Blitzkreig is creating draws anything in thats metal then shouldn't vertigo and karate kid be dead ?
I don't understand your reasoning behing your question. Karate Kid and Vertigo are not made out of metal, and also are not metal clad (as Agent X is), and also are not in as close a proximity to Blitzkrieg as Agent X would be. Also, the battle takes place in a forest, so there will not be a lot of metallic debris flying around. A majority of the metal is on Blitzkrieg's end of the battlefield, and it's on Agent X's body.
Originally posted by Scoobless
all their powers ere nullified before Vertigo attacked... Stark's armour was shut down, Spidey's webs wouldn't even fire... so Cap would've been least disoriented by power loss (as he has no power)i'm sure if they had there powers she wouldn't have been much of a problem
Not exactly. She's taken down people fully powered (i.e. Rogue above as displayed). It's not a matter of powers, as much a matter of anatomy.
Originally posted by illadelph12
I don't understand your reasoning behing your question. Karate Kid and Vertigo are not made out of metal, and also are not metal clad (as Agent X is), and also are not in as close a proximity to Blitzkrieg as Agent X would be. Also, the battle takes place in a forest, so there will not be a lot of metallic debris flying around. A majority of the metal is on Blitzkrieg's end of the battlefield, and it's on Agent X's body.
I assume that for the sonic pulse to be effective they would have to get close to Dc's team , the ring i believe is made of metal and KK/Vertigo can't fly
Splat.
Originally posted by grey fox
I assume that for the sonic pulse to be effective they would have to get close to Dc's team , the ring i believe is made of metal and KK/Vertigo can't flySplat.
Actually, no.
The rings are composed of Anti-Gravity Element Number-152 which was invented by Mon El and crafted by Brainiac. The effects of magnetism (or gravity) do not hinder the rings.
Also, regarding Agent X's stealth. His vibranium armor deads the sounds of his foot steps, as well as incoming sounds, so without sight, he's nearly useless. His vibranium armor doesn't account for the displacement of air and smoke he'd make as he moves. Gamora and Karate Kid are both trained to take out opponents using their other senses besides sight and sound, including touch.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Nice retort DC.But again, inconsequential.
👇
Firstly:
This would not only give away your position, but also hinder your ability to fly, as this is the manner in which Blitzkrieg [b]achieves flight
. [/B]
No, it wouldn't actually give away his position. Your guys wouldn't see anything when the smoke is directed against you.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Monolith could down Blitzkrieg, in his now apparent and given away position, with either a heat blast or a concussive force blast as Karate Kid takes Vertigo airborne (KKs flight ring affords him flight in excess of the velocity of your 140 mph winds) to rain her pulse down on your now obvious position.
What? Karate Kid can't even fly with 100 MPH...I think the top speed of the flight ring is like 90 MPH (And that's when Karate Kid focuses)...I'm not sure where you get that he can fly with 140...especially when he is carrying someone else with him...
And it's either easy for Blitkrieg to
A) Take out the sonic pulse by creating a shield of ionized air particles around him, or
B) Just shoot Vertigo and Karate Kid out of the sky.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Not to mention the fact that such extreme forces of wind in a dense forest (that is on fire) would kick up immense amounts of dust, dirt, loose leaves, weak branches, topple weak and dying trees, and send airborne and other folliage in the vicinity, as well as hinder your own teammates mobility, save Thing, for none of them are affixed to the ground or weigh a significant amount of pounds to not be affected by gail force winds. You've not only just made visibility worse, on top of that, you've hindered Agent X(your best asset)'s visibilty with all of the debris flying through the air, as well as the force of the wind effecting the accuracy of his shots by altering the trajectory of his rounds, not to mention the electromagnetic field Blitzkrieg would need to create to generate such a vortex would be drawing in anything metalic in his proximity, also throwing off the trajectory of Agent X's bullets (and effecting his mobility within a metal suit of armor). 👇
I'm afraid that Blitkrieg can control his wind's intensity...he'll just make a wind that blows away the smoke...it doesn't have to be a tornado-like vortex...
Originally posted by illadelph12
Secondly, Gamora was artificially enhanced in strength, speed, endurance, agility, etc. by Thanos to a signifigant degree to make her the ultimate living weapon, and she was trained to sneak up and assassinate telepaths, and The Magus (Adam Warlock), who has an affinity for souls. Agent X is not the Head Mutant In Charge of the stealth game. Not by a long shot. And he's also no where near as agile, trained, or adept as Gamora, technological assistance included.
Agent Zero is not a telepath. And how will Gamora sneak up on him when she
A) Can't see him
B) Can't hear him
C) Can't smell him.
Unless Gamora has some Daredevil kind of radar sense or telepathy, he will not be aware of Agent Zero's presence. And will get an adamantium bullet at her head. And I remember that only weapon Gamora is carrying is her knife.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, she's taken your boy Thing, who's mobility is not up to par, out in one move on a previous occasion, so deja vu is the phrase of the day for the Blue Eyed Brooklynite.
So apparently she can cross the distance of 1000 yards in seconds and kill Thing? Even when she doesn't know where he is because of the smoke? When lightning and it's sounds is hitting her from everywhere, messing up her hearing? I doubt it.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Karnak is good, but Vertigo's pulse trained on him (now that Blitzkrieg's folly has given away your team's postion) will hinder his abilities, if not render him unconscious. Karnak can control his respitory system and his cardiovascular system, and he can control his tolerance for pain (as can KK), but he can not control his senses to the degree to shut off a portion of his cerrebelum and render his mechanoreceptors inoperative. He can't force himself to go deaf, and he can't turn off his inner ear or operate without his sense of balance. 👇
Karnak has incredible willpower. Captain America was able to resist Vertigo's power for a while, and his willpower (and body control) is absolutely nothing compared to Karnak. Taken on account that Blitzkrieg can render attacks of Vertigo useless, that the effect is lessened by the distance it travels, or Karnak can simply clasp his hands in his hears to lessen the effect (Since it's sonic pulse). Also, Karnak's EXTREME concetration will also lessen the effect. Sure, his sense of balance is messed up, but with his extreme control of his bodily functions, and his extreme concetration, he can drive off the attack, like Captain America did for a while. Only that Karnak will drive it off completely.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Agent Zero is your best weapon, and he can be dealt with by Monolith. After dispatching Blitzkrieg (for making the mistake of giving away your position in the first place [jabroni]), Monolith can just go apeshit and engulf the forest in wave after wave of heat blasts and incinerate everything in sight, including the incapacitated Karnak and Blitzkrieg, via Vertigo and
Blitzkrieg didn't reveal any positions, like I said earlier. He is smiply directing the smoke back, and smashing lightning everywhere- Your team has no ways of knowing where he is, especially when he can be on the move.
And Monolith can't do jack shit to Agent Zero. He can be happy if he even knows that he is at the opposing team. While Monolith makes lot of sound (which makes it easy for Zero to find his location), is slow and clumsy, Agent Zero is fast, nimble and quiet. If you are seriously trying to tell that Monolith has better chance of noting Agent Zero's presence in noisy forest full of trees then Sabretooth in small room with no noises, you are not very familiar with Monolith...And Monolith can't do much before he is killed by Zero. Vibranium can resist every heat wave that Monolith puts up.
Agent Zero will simply snuck up on him (shouldn't be hard) and shoot him in the head with adamantium bullets. Then disappear and assassinate Gamora. Or assassinate Gamora first and then Living Monolith - neither have any way of seeing, hearing or smelling his presence.
Originally posted by illadelph12
1)Gamora's blade.2)KK's fists.
3)Falling redwood trees while they are disoriented and incapacitated by Vertigo.
1) Gamora is dead
2) Karate Kid is taken out by Blitzkrieg who takes out every attack made by Vertigo
3) Neither of them are disoriented, except Thing.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Agent Zero won't be able to get a good shot with all of the heat, smoke, burning trees collapsing all about, wind swept tree branches, leaves, dirt, etc., as well as his air supply being constantly taken away in a suffocating blanket of fire and smoldering debris. Not to mention, blindly firing off rounds of ammo and corrosives in a burning forest full of large trees that can fall on you isn't the most intelligent thing to do. Do you know what happens when you super heat acid?
No way Agent Zero is firing blindly. I assume that Monolith isn't just running around forest blindly (He wouldn't see anything himself from the smoke), but firing the heat somewhere. It's not hard to see where the heat is coming from, and follow it to center. Then he can either shoot Monolith or cut his throat with his adamantium knife.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Couple that with the fact that Agent Zero must release his pent up kinetic energy in the form of the corrosive, the strength he gained from Thing punching him will dissipate shortly thereafter. He can't store it for extended periods of time, meaning he can't exponentially increase his base strength infinitely.
And where you got that he can't store the energy? He is not Strong Guy. Also..."Zero is also able to channel absorbed energy into raw strength, allowing him to deliver blows ten times stronger than normal." SO, he is able to release it with punches too.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Gamora, KK, and Vertigo can take up a safe position via flight (Legion of Super Heroes Flight ring) and covered by the smoke, but A-X is grounded, blinded, and choking, up against an angry walking organic granite Egyptian statue in a smoldering inferno.
What makes you think that Zero is grounded and can't simply climb up to trees? That his mask wouldn't prevent him from chocking? That his visor wouldn't eliminate being blinded by the smoke?
Originally posted by illadelph12
Agent X dies or is rendered unconscious via exfixiation, gasping for air in a smoke and dust filled forest, and being cooked alive in a metal suit of armor that conducts heat like an oven and causes him severe heatstroke.
And what makes you think that Blitzkrieg can't just get himself in the air? While in the air, he spins all the particles around him in fast speeds, dissipating every wave of sonic (compressed air) that Vertigo is blasting at him. As soon as it comes at Blitzkrieg, the sound is rendered ineffective. Then Blitzkrieg will just fire a bolt at Karate Kid, dropping three of your team (You don't have any way of defense besides Vertigo's sonic bolts, and they are rendered ineffective), and killing them(since Karate Kid is the only one who can fly). And Monolith is taken down by Zero/Karnak.
I don't even need Thing to take down your team.
👇
Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, regarding Agent X's stealth. His vibranium armor deads the sounds of his foot steps, as well as incoming sounds, so without sight, he's nearly useless. His vibranium armor doesn't account for the displacement of air and smoke he'd make as he moves. Gamora and Karate Kid are both trained to take out opponents using their other senses besides sight and sound, including touch.
Okay, show me a proof that Karate Kid and Gamora have THAT good senses. I have never seen them do stuff like sensing the displacement of the air...
I suppose that they aren't near the heat Monolith is making, since they would die. No other heat marks near, so Agent Zero could just see their heat signatures and snipe them.
They go up in the air, and are taken down by Blitzkrieg. They stay down, and get either heated by their own teammate or taken down by Zero. They are dead in both cases.
Originally posted by illadelph12If Agent Zero's vibranium suit dampens the effects of sound energy, it should also dampen the effects of thermal energy.
Agent X dies or is rendered unconscious via exfixiation, gasping for air in a smoke and dust filled forest, and being cooked alive in a metal suit of armor that conducts heat like an oven and causes him severe heatstroke.
Why can't KK, Vertigo etc die of asphyxiation and smoke inhalation? Everybody there needs to breathe.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If Agent Zero's vibranium suit dampens the effects of sound energy, it should also dampen the effects of thermal energy.
because vibranium absorbs vibration ....... and kinetic energy to some degree ..... not other energy types (such as heat)
...... as far as i know
🙂
I might not be able to finish this round and have to forfeit. It looks like I have to fly to Dallas on Wednesday morning, and I don't know if I'll have net access in my hotel room. 🙁
If I have net access down in Texas I'll continue.
I'll do what I can for now.
A lot of points to cover.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If Agent Zero's vibranium suit dampens the effects of sound energy, it should also dampen the effects of thermal energy.Why can't KK, Vertigo etc die of asphyxiation and smoke inhalation? Everybody there needs to breathe.
About the Vibranium;
No, it won't dampen heat.
The properties of vibranium (the Wakandan Vibranium Agent X's suit consists of) deals specifically with the dissipation of sound waves, vibrations, and concussive force, not heat. High explosives can still destroy vibranium, the metal will simply muffle the sound of the explosion. Also, extreme heat will still slag the metal and make it malleable so it can be formed into armor, boots, etc. Agent X is walking around in a soundproofed oven.
About the asphyxiation (exfixiation), Karate Kid can fly above the smoke with Vertigo if necessary (and as a tactic to rain down the pulse). Gamora has artificial enhancements that will allow her to survive in hostile environments like this for extended periods of time (this isn't her first smoke filled battlefield), and Living Monolith can operate for extended periods of time without need of breathing (as can Thing).
Now:
First off, I find it funny that you assume Blitzkrieg can simultaneously create tornado force winds (that won't effect his own teammates), defend himself from a sonic attack, defend himself from a heat blast from Living Monolith, and do all of this while he's exerting himself to direct these winds to put out a large magnitude forest fire. Blitzkrieg is not Storm, he's not going to be tossing around tornadoes and hurricanes. Let me dispel this misconception first:
Blitzkrieg can propel himself at 120 mph by charging particles in a funnel to create a whirlwind for propulsion, and then on top of that, he has to generate a continuous arc of lightening between his feet and the ground to stay in flight.
As I said before, Blitzkrieg is going to give away your position. If he flies above the fire he's going to be a big lightning beacon in the sky, and he can't propel himself through the air if he's using his manner of propulsion (the wind he generates with the charged particles) to blow back the smoke. At best, he'd be able to use his winds from an elevated position, but he'd have to train them downward and would leave himself open to either Vertigo or Monolith. It's either one or the other.
Also, Blitzkrieg's wind affects are small in scope. He doesn't generate a Storm-like wall of wind, he can generate a focussed stream of wind for propulsion that won't effect a wide area, especially not the size of a forest. Show me Blitzkrieg generating tornado level winds over a wide area, while in flight.
Also, on top of that, if Blitzkrieg is hurling 140 mph tornado force winds, Agent Zero and Karnak are going to be wind tossed in my direction (neither of them weigh above 300 lbs, and 140 mph winds can toss cars around. I'm sure you watched the Hurricane Katrina coverage). Unless they're behind Blitzkrieg's position, he's going to be blowing them away. And if they are behind Blitzkrieg, he's given away your position. 👇
Not the best of tactics. 👇
Next:
No way Agent Zero is firing blindly. I assume that Monolith isn't just running around forest blindly (He wouldn't see anything himself from the smoke), but firing the heat somewhere. It's not hard to see where the heat is coming from, and follow it to center. Then he can either shoot Monolith or cut his throat with his adamantium knife.
What makes you think that Zero is grounded and can't simply climb up to trees? That his mask wouldn't prevent him from chocking? That his visor wouldn't eliminate being blinded by the smoke?
Show me he can.
In an inferno, among a dense redwood forest that's ablaze, it's going to be very hard to distinguish heat signatures. Show me where Agent X has used his visor to distinguish and track specific heat signatures in a smoke filled inferno, and I'll acquiesce. Also show me how he's going to be able to keep his footing and do this while his teammate is behind him tossing tornado force winds in the direction he's travelling in.
You can't.
The fact is, I've got you in a tactical bind.
If Blitzkrieg uses his winds to blow away the smoke, he won't be able to fly, and his teammates will have to stay behind him as he does this or risk being blown away in the winds he generates. Being that we are in a dense Redwood forest, this gives me ampel opportunity to flank you, as my flyer will be available to me. 👇
If Blitzkrieg takes to the air, he'll give away your position due to the manner in which he flies. He generates an arc of electricity underneath himself which extends to the ground, and he generates a vortex of wind to propel himself through the air. He'll be a lightning beacon in the sky, and downed by Vertigo just as Rogue was in the scan I provided, or blasted by Monolith. Not to mention the smoke screen will continue to cover the battle field, and Blitzkrieg's abilities work by line of sight. He's inoperable. 👇
Agent X's former armor (as Maverick) had self-sustaining life support equipment. There's no evidence that his new vibranium armor has the same abilities, and his bio gives the impression that it doesn't. Please provide evidence to the contrary. Until then. 👇
Captain America being the last to fall in that scan proves nothing. I can provide scans of Spiderman punching out a Herald of Galactus and I can provide scans of Cap punching out King Thor. Does that mean Karnak would beat down Firelord or King Thor because he's a superior fighter than Cap or Spiderman? No. Karnak's "will-power" can't be quantified, and doing so is hollow conjecture. We've seen Spiderman, Captain America and company downed in the span of a couple panels, and we've seen Rogue downed in the span of a couple panels (at a distance in midflight). Unless Karnak can shut off the portion of his brain that processes sound and controls his sense of balance, he's going to be effected. To what degree he'll resist and how quickly he'll fall can't be quantified without any evidence. 👇
Thing's a brick, and I never liked him. 👇 👇 👇
I've got the tactical advantage, and nothing in your present arsenal can take it away from me.
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
FLIGHT RINGS ARE WAY ABOVE 100 MILES AN HOUR.
Flight rings are capable of mach level flight and above. Booster Gold incorporates the same make of ring that Karate Kid does. Also, flight rings create an anti-gravity field about the wearer enabling to carry an aditional amount of mass without hindering their ability to fly. Karate Kid can move at high speed for short periods of time. He can't fly at extreme speeds for great periods of time due to not having any form of protection from the shere forces mach speeds generate. But he can use it in short bursts from point to point, and he can fly in excess of 200 mph without ill effects.
Originally posted by illadelph12
I'll let you know by tomorrow afternoon if I have to forfeit/close arguments. I should get the particulars about my hotel room by then. I'm in PST (California). What timezone are you in DC?
debating until wednesday should be enough for you to get your point across
your second round match probably wont start for about a month.......
if you get through.....
😛