Iranian President Calls for the Destruction of Israel

How antisemitic of him. There are quite a few people claiming that the Holocaust never happened.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
Iran plans Holocaust conference

Iran claims that their nuclear program is meant solely for energy purposes, but I believe it’s becoming more and more apparent that this is not their intent. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is making numerous radical claims, and the world community is growing uneasy on him and his country’s agenda.

I honestly believe that a war with Iran is becoming inevitable. Your thoughts?

It's hard for me to decide how I feel about the Iran situation. On one hand, I feel that if they had a viable nuclear weapons program, then more of the world would be concerned about them. However, this administration, as well as the last two Republican administrations, have been in bed with them. At this point, I think they feel "left out", because this country's president has gotten in bed with their enemies in Iraq.

As for their president claiming the Holocaust was made up to justify the creation of Israel, that's just silly. Even he knows it happened. I'm sure this "conference" will either not happen, or not be a very big deal.

As far as Israel is concerned, I've stated my opinion on that many times. They should get their shit together for themselves. Let the chips fall where they may, because we can't support them or their economy, forever.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
As far as Israel is concerned, I've stated my opinion on that many times. They should get their shit together for themselves. Let the chips fall where they may, because we can't support them or their economy, forever.

Well its not that easy.

Those people believe that is their promised land, the land which God promised them. And that is extreamly powerfull when it comes to war.

Palestinians say thats their land, etc.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
As for their president claiming the Holocaust was made up to justify the creation of Israel, that's just silly. Even he knows it happened. I'm sure this "conference" will either not happen, or not be a very big deal.

Obviously the Holocaust was real, and it was indeed a very gruesome horrific act. However, there is some validity to the argument of who "truly" has ownership to the land known as "Isreal." A majority of the "Jews" who were involved in the Holocaust, and those who reside in Israel today are thought to be descended from the
Khazars(sp?). These people were actually determined to be converts of the jewish faith, and are not the true historical Israelites.

That's why many of the Arab countries have soo much animosity towards the current "Jews" that reside in Israel, seeing as how many of those who have Arabic and African Blood, have actually been determined to have true genetic/historical links to the land. I know someone will flame me about this..and say that I'm lying..but its actually quite true, study up on your history a bit. The land was just given to this group of people who claimed they were "jews" without anyone really researching their geneology.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Obviously the Holocaust was real, and it was indeed a very gruesome horrific act. However, there is some validity to the argument of who "truly" has ownership to the land known as "Isreal." A majority of the "Jews" who were involved in the Holocaust, and those who reside in Israel today are thought to be descended from the
Khazars(sp?). These people were actually determined to be converts of the jewish faith, and are not the true historical Israelites.

That's why many of the Arab countries have soo much animosity towards the current "Jews" that reside in Israel, seeing as how many of those who have Arabic and African Blood, have actually been determined to have true genetic/historical links to the land. I know someone will flame me about this..and say that I'm lying..but its actually quite true, study up on your history a bit. The land was just given to this group of people who claimed they were "jews" without anyone really researching their geneology.

But isn't Judaism just as much a faith as it is an ethnicity?

God gave the Promised Land to the Jewish people, meaning those who followed Judaism. At least that’s what I always thought. It has more to do with the faith and practice than it does with the actual heritage.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well its not that easy.

Those people believe that is their promised land, the land which God promised them. And that is extreamly powerfull when it comes to war.

Palestinians say thats their land, etc.

I understand it's not as easy as saying: "Oh, no more support for Israel." I understand the situation in regards to geopolitics.

And the Palestinians are right. That is their land.

Well thats purely down to debate. What I was trying to point out is that Jews are driven by extreamly strong religious belief of God giving that land to them - and for them there is nothing wrong with what they are doing - Palestinians also believe its their land, as well as religious.

Its...too complex for both parties.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
But isn't Judaism just as much a faith as it is an ethnicity?

God gave the Promised Land to the Jewish people, meaning those who followed Judaism. At least that’s what I always thought. It has more to do with the faith and practice than it does with the actual heritage.

Well from a biblical perspective, I've always thought the original dissolution of the Jews as a distinct people was thought to have happened shortly after the Crucifixition.

I believe there is a Biblical reference of God commanding the Israelites to be "scattered throughout the nations" that supports this notion, but I'll have to do a bit of reading to confirm that my Biblical-historical information is accurate.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Well from a biblical perspective, I've always thought the original dissolution of the Jews as a distinct people was thought to have happened shortly after the Crucifixition.

I believe there is a Biblical reference of God commanding the Israelites to be "scattered throughout the nations" that supports this notion, but I'll have to do a bit of reading to confirm that my Biblical-historical information is accurate.

it's accurate

And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, to which the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Deuteronomy 30:1-6

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
it's accurate

Thanks for the scripture. So basically this all begs the answer to the question, is modern day Israel..representative of the reformation of the true "Israel" as mentioned in scripture?

To be honest with you..I don't know the answer to that one. But I do know that currently many of the people who call themselves "Jews" nowadays are not truly descendents of the original Israelites, and even if they were..they still wouldn't be considered Israelites from a spirtual perspective, since they do not accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior.

However, there is one thing that we can all know for certain, that being... "Israel" will remain a "problemed" country, until it has been determined without a doubt who the true "Israelites" are.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well thats purely down to debate. What I was trying to point out is that Jews are driven by extreamly strong religious belief of God giving that land to them - and for them there is nothing wrong with what they are doing - Palestinians also believe its their land, as well as religious.

Its...too complex for both parties.

Yes, but once religion is removed from politics, then the world be be a MUCH happier place

your perspectives of judaism are flawed and claim of messianic jews as true jews insulting.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well its not that easy.

Those people believe that is their promised land, the land which God promised them. And that is extreamly powerfull when it comes to war.

Palestinians say thats their land, etc.

I'd also like to point out that if god had promised it to them, and them alone...then the need for discussion would be a moot point. Because what nation or political entity could argue with the wrath of god? None could. So, if god is on the Jew's side, then there need be no debate. If he would negatively effect the Egyptians to set "his people" free, then why the compunction with doing so now? It always amazes me that god used to have no problem with making his existence known in such an obvious manner, but these days he's just content to sit back and watch us kill ourselves in his name.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
your perspectives of judaism are flawed and claim of messianic jews as true jews insulting.

what do you mean?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Yes, but once religion is removed from politics, then the world be be a MUCH happier place

Not going to happen. A Religion is just a "system of beliefs." Once one system of beliefs is removed from the political system..it is just simply replaced by another.

What you probably meant to say was...

"Once the "Judeo - Christian" Religion is removed from politics, then the world will be a happier place."

I don't think so. Captilism/Communism/Imperialism/etc would all have come to an abrupt end if they did not have some form of "Judeo - Christain" values to temper them. I don't think I would want to live in a World where "no values/standards" becomes the standard. That's just me though.

As far as the Iran thing goes. I'd have to say that I am at a loss at what the US should do. At this point I really don't think anything can be done.

We need as many troops on US soil as possible..to protect us from the possibility of terrorist attacks. Iran should have been a big issue before this pointless Iraq war, but unfortunately..we have an idiotic admistration that has abolutely no idea what to do when it comes to foreign policy or anything for that matter. The sad thing is that things are only going to get worse..not better from here. World War 3 has already started people, not too much we can really do to change it.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
What you probably meant to say was...

No, I said what I meant to say. Once religion is removed from politics, the world will be a much better place. Don't assume you can speak for me, as you have illustrated a total lack of understanding of what I have said in the past. When I say religion, I mean ALL religions. Once the worlds nations are no longer ruled by a theocratic principle, then the world will be a much happier place.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No, I said what I meant to say. Once religion is removed from politics, the world will be a much better place. Don't assume you can speak for me, as you have illustrated a total lack of understanding of what I have said in the past. When I say religion, I mean ALL religions. Once the worlds nations are no longer ruled by a theocratic principle, then the world will be a much happier place.

Erhem..but that's a bit oxymoronic Captain..all governments are based off of theocratic principles. Some governments just have more/less spiritually based systems than others. Replacing a government based on "spiritual" values with one based of off "secular" values just means you are swapping one "religion" with another.

Moving on, your position is self defeating..because you are also inadvertantly implying that one should remove your belief system of "All theocratic belief systems should be removed from government."

In a nutshell...I get what you were attempting to say..but you phrased it wrong. What you really want to do is just remove all belief systems..that go against yours. Based on the other debates that we've had in this forum, I would take a stab at saying that most of what you are against represents "Judeo -Christain" religions.

I don't think your position really equates to being very tolerant..but you do have the right to your opinion.

What i mean is that your perspective of judaism and what a jew is is flawed.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Erhem..but that's a bit oxymoronic Captain..all governments are based off of theocratic principles. Some governments just have more/less spiritually based systems than others. Replacing a government based on "spiritual" values with one based of off "secular" values just means you are swapping one "religion" with another.

Moving on, your position is self defeating..because you are also inadvertantly implying that one should remove your belief system of "All theocratic belief systems should be removed from government."

In a nutshell...I get what you were attempting to say..but you phrased it wrong. What you really want to do is just remove all belief systems..that go against yours. Based on the other debates that we've had in this forum, I would take a stab at saying that most of what you are against represents "Judeo -Christain" religions.

I don't think your position really equates to being very tolerant..but you do have the right to your opinion.

You're misunderstanding, as always, is at teh heart of your reply. Religion has no place in secular government. And government, should always exist as a secular entity. Your faith, once again, doesn't allow you to see past your own world.

ethics and religion are able to be seperated