GOKU and SUPERMAN

Started by ((The_Anomaly))29 pages

Wally West's Arguments are obviously quite fanboy-tastic.

He says the Same stuff that all the Superman fanboys say all the time. I wasn’t impressed.

Ok. lets look at this.

Training: Now I'm not sure exactly what kind of training Superman has had over the years but he's a reporter for the Planet. He has a life outside of being "Superman". Goku on the other hand doesn’t do anything other then train himself constantly. His life is to be more powerful. And he’s trained with various gods and its stronger then any of the gods in his universe, a lot stronger.

Strength: In all out brute power. I'll give this to Superman. Now Goku is strong enough to hurt Superman hand to hand, but there is no doubt in terms of physical strength, Superman is stronger.

Speed: This one goes to Goku, hands down. Superman has amazing speed. But Goku can literally teleport (Instant Transmission) at will and his regular speed has never been clocked. But its so fast that it seems as if he’s teleporting anyways. While Superman is fast he cannot move instantly anywhere he wants.

Powers: Superman has a lot of cool powers. Heat Vision, Freeze breath etc. His heat vision is damn hot. But it can’t destroy planets. Nor would he ever be able to hit Goku with it anyways (see above). Now, Goku has so much ki power that he posses the ability to destroy a planet roughly 333 times during the Frieza saga BEFORE he became a Super Saiyan according to the powerlevels given by Akira Toriyama. How do I know this? Math. Simple Math. In the Saiyan saga Vegeta destroys the planet Arlia with absolutely no difficulty. (He used 2 fingers and didn’t even flinch) Then later while fighting Goku (after getting pummeled by Goku’s Kaio Ken) He threatens to destroy the Earth. He says something along the lines of “Dodge this next attack if you can Kakarot, but even if you do this entire planet is going up in smoke!” This is when Goku and Vegeta have the big ki blast battle where Goku uses Kaio-Ken x4. Now Vegeta’s Powerlevel at this time is about 18,000. So at the very least we know that with a powerlevel of 18,000 you are strong enough to destroy a planet. Now, Goku’s powerlevel using Kaio-Ken x20 while fighting Frieza on Namek is about 6,000,000.

6,000,000 divided by 18,000 is 333.333.

As note Super Saiyan Goku on Namek, with no training as a Super Saiyan (A new Super Saiyan) has a powerlevel of about 15,000,000. That equates to being able to destroy a planet roughly 833 times over. Now imagine Goku’s power during the Buu saga. Its easily 3-5 times more then what it was on Namek. And that’s likely underestimating it. (Unfortunately we have no way to really know as Toriyama stopped doing powerlevels after Namek) But its safe to say that Super Saiyan 2 is double the power of a Super Saiyan and then Super Saiyan 3 is at least triple the power of a regular Super Saiyan (though I think its more logical to assume that its double the power of a Super Saiyan 2)

At any Rate Superman posses no where near this kind of power. If Goku felt like it, potentially he could generate a kamehameha that had the power to destroy a planet easily over a few thousand times during the Buu saga. Superman cant compete with power like that.

Oh and as a side note, the “Taking time to power up” argument for Supes isn’t gonna cut it. Goku could Instant Transmission somewhere (where ever he felt like) Transform, charge up a kamehameha wave with enough force to destroy the Earth a few hundred times, Instant Transmission right back in front of Superman and kill him. (or at least really really hurt him.)

Now I give Superman a lot of respect. And I’ll admit that if Goku wanted to have a one on one fight with Supes, and he slipped up and Supes actually got a few good hits in. Goku would be hurting, a lot. But Goku is too fast, and his power is so absurd that there’s just no way that Superman could do anything about it if Goku felt like destroying him.

Originally posted by dvampire
Because IT takes time to use. Heat Vision is light speed, even an low intensity blasts was able to go to the moon and it was trailling behind Flash also. Heat Vision also comes out very fast, Goku won't be able to dodge.

It took time before Goku teleported away from Cells Kamehameha wave, Superman isn't going to let Goku just teleport. Even if Goku does though, he'll just be wasting more energy.

No..in the manga he did it instantly and it didn't take no time sinse cell was right there....

Also how many times you seen the blasts from any dbz character go through space in an instant. Most go to the sun or past it very quickily when they show the view from space...

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Goku used one against freiza before. He used an arua against the ginyu force which was not a barrir lik ethe freiza one. Well if you remember the history of trunks when gohan did it to block blasts or brolly did it for blasts is just an example on what it looked like when goku did it to freiza.

also i looke din the thread and it shows picks, but never showed how hot it was. Never ever showed how hot it was so i am asking you where does it say it is hotter than the sun ?

How many do they use it though? Goku isn't going to costantly waste energy trying to protect himself. Movies aren't cannon.

So maybe you should keep looking then (even though you've seen them before). 🙄

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
No..in the manga he did it instantly and it didn't take no time sinse cell was right there....

Also how many times you seen the blasts from any dbz character go through space in an instant. Most go to the sun or past it very quickily when they show the view from space...

It did take time, he has to place his hand on his head and think of a KI signature, that's going to happen in a fight against Superman who will be attacking.

Goku's Kamehameha wave wasn't light speed when he shot it at Raditz or Cells when when he was chasing Goku into the air with it. 🙂

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Wally West's Arguments are obviously quite fanboy-tastic.

He says the Same stuff that all the Superman fanboys say all the time. I wasn’t impressed.

Ok. lets look at this.

Training: Now I'm not sure exactly what kind of training Superman has had over the years but he's a reporter for the Planet. He has a life outside of being "Superman". Goku on the other hand doesn’t do anything other then train himself constantly. His life is to be more powerful. And he’s trained with various gods and its stronger then any of the gods in his universe, a lot stronger.

Strength: In all out brute power. I'll give this to Superman. Now Goku is strong enough to hurt Superman hand to hand, but there is no doubt in terms of physical strength, Superman is stronger.

Speed: This one goes to Goku, hands down. Superman has amazing speed. But Goku can literally teleport (Instant Transmission) at will and his regular speed has never been clocked. But its so fast that it seems as if he’s teleporting anyways. While Superman is fast he cannot move instantly anywhere he wants.

Powers: Superman has a lot of cool powers. Heat Vision, Freeze breath etc. His heat vision is damn hot. But it can’t destroy planets. Nor would he ever be able to hit Goku with it anyways (see above). Now, Goku has so much ki power that he posses the ability to destroy a planet roughly 333 times during the Frieza saga BEFORE he became a Super Saiyan according to the powerlevels given by Akira Toriyama. How do I know this? Math. Simple Math. In the Saiyan saga Vegeta destroys the planet Arlia with absolutely no difficulty. (He used 2 fingers and didn’t even flinch) Then later while fighting Goku (after getting pummeled by Goku’s Kaio Ken) He threatens to destroy the Earth. He says something along the lines of “Dodge this next attack if you can Kakarot, but even if you do this entire planet is going up in smoke!” This is when Goku and Vegeta have the big ki blast battle where Goku uses Kaio-Ken x4. Now Vegeta’s Powerlevel at this time is about 18,000. So at the very least we know that with a powerlevel of 18,000 you are strong enough to destroy a planet. Now, Goku’s powerlevel using Kaio-Ken x20 while fighting Frieza on Namek is about 6,000,000.

6,000,000 divided by 18,000 is 333.333.

As note Super Saiyan Goku on Namek, with no training as a Super Saiyan (A new Super Saiyan) has a powerlevel of about 15,000,000. That equates to being able to destroy a planet roughly 833 times over. Now imagine Goku’s power during the Buu saga. Its easily 3-5 times more then what it was on Namek. And that’s likely underestimating it. (Unfortunately we have no way to really know as Toriyama stopped doing powerlevels after Namek) But its safe to say that Super Saiyan 2 is double the power of a Super Saiyan and then Super Saiyan 3 is at least triple the power of a regular Super Saiyan (though I think its more logical to assume that its double the power of a Super Saiyan 2)

At any Rate Superman posses no where near this kind of power. If Goku felt like it, potentially he could generate a kamehameha that had the power to destroy a planet easily over a few thousand times during the Buu saga. Superman cant compete with power like that.

Oh and as a side note, the “Taking time to power up” argument for Supes isn’t gonna cut it. Goku could Instant Transmission somewhere (where ever he felt like) Transform, charge up a kamehameha wave with enough force to destroy the Earth a few hundred times, Instant Transmission right back in front of Superman and kill him. (or at least really really hurt him.)

Now I give Superman a lot of respect. And I’ll admit that if Goku wanted to have a one on one fight with Supes, and he slipped up and Supes actually got a few good hits in. Goku would be hurting, a lot. But Goku is too fast, and his power is so absurd that there’s just no way that Superman could do anything about it if Goku felt like destroying him.

Or maybe you're saying the same stuff that DBZ fanboys say all the time without bringing kind of proof. 🙂 Superman is greater than ssj3 Goku in strength, speed, durability, and stamina.

Originally posted by dvampire
Or maybe you're saying the same stuff that DBZ fanboys say all the time without bringing kind of proof. 🙂

that sums it up.

Originally posted by dvampire
It did take time, he has to place his hand on his head and think of a KI signature, that's going to happen in a fight against Superman who will be attacking.

Goku's Kamehameha wave wasn't light speed when he shot it at Raditz or Cells when when he was chasing Goku into the air with it. 🙂

Wrong about the IT thing. Goku dosent have to concentrate very hard. He can move without "placing his hand on his head" if he feels like it.

This is showen a few times. Goku does it against Cell and later Vegitto does it against Buu.

Originally posted by dvampire
Or maybe you're saying the same stuff that DBZ fanboys say all the time without bringing kind of proof. 🙂 Superman is greater than ssj3 Goku in strength, speed, durability, and stamina.

what "proof" do you want?

Oh and Im hardly a DBZ fanboy, if anything I'm a Superman fanboy.

Originally posted by dvampire
How many do they use it though? Goku isn't going to costantly waste energy trying to protect himself. Movies aren't cannon.

So maybe you should keep looking then (even though you've seen them before). 🙄

Umm I KNOW movies are not cannon I was showing you on what it looks like sinse you don't remember him using one against freiza.

Waste energy ? it didn't waste any to put up the barrier and it came instantly. How often does he uses it ? how often does superman use half his shit lol this match is all out. Half the goku matches as well he is not even fighting his fullest, he is always playing like they said until lik ethe last ep or manga page.

no you never showed me. all you did was show picks of heat vission melting things and thats all thats in the thread. Everywhere I asked you to proove it's hotter than the sun, you aviod it some how ? just please show me again(you never showed me the first time) but by some chance you did, why don't you show me where it says it ? and not just assuming from the pics ?

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Wrong about the IT thing. Goku dosent have to concentrate very hard. He can move without "placing his hand on his head" if he feels like it.

This is showen a few times. Goku does it against Cell and later Vegitto does it against Buu.

It does take time, Goku has never teleported in mid battle. Why didn't he use it while fighting Cell or Kid Buu in battle (when I say battle, I mean in close combat). It whouldn't matter anyways, Superman is used to faceing teleporters, Goku will just be lose energy. 🙂

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
what "proof" do you want?

Oh and Im hardly a DBZ fanboy, if anything I'm a Superman fanboy.

I'm still waiting for that proof though. 🙂

Originally posted by dvampire
It did take time, he has to place his hand on his head and think of a KI signature, that's going to happen in a fight against Superman who will be attacking.

Goku's Kamehameha wave wasn't light speed when he shot it at Raditz or Cells when when he was chasing Goku into the air with it. 🙂

nope he does not have to place his hands anywhere..how he do it while charging a kamehameha then ?

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
*runs to look how hot an imaginary planet called namek is* wait it's not real 😱 so you can't assume anything 😈

also no one said it is greater than sun and supe vission.

also again where did it say again how hot the supes vission is ? and by how much ?

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg

it's off the charts by all the standard scientific measures. that includes the charts used to measure the sun.

Originally posted by dvampire
It does take time, Goku has never teleported in mid battle. Why didn't he use it while fighting Cell or Kid Buu in battle (when I say battle, I mean in close combat). It whouldn't matter anyways, Superman is used to faceing teleporters, Goku will just be lose energy. 🙂

Superman doesn't do half the stuff he could do in mid battle . This is plot device because if they both (supes and goku) did what they could all the time in battle then the story wouldn't go along and it would end quick.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
what "proof" do you want?

Oh and Im hardly a DBZ fanboy, if anything I'm a Superman fanboy.

proof of goku having reaction time and normal speed comparable to supse.

Yes Cyber Ninja your correct, in DBZ terms, if the fighters did 1% of what they "could" do then the planet would be destroyed instantly. They have to hold back, they dont have a choice in DBZ

Huh I have seen goku do instant translocation in mid battle more then once......hence the warp kamehameha

Originally posted by Jose123
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg

it's off the charts by all the standard scientific measures. that includes the charts used to measure the sun.

"derived from the sun" no where did it say hotter.. Also you don't want me to belive what random people say right. Don't let me start qouteing what the gods in dbz says all the time about powers.

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Umm I KNOW movies are not cannon I was showing you on what it looks like sinse you don't remember him using one against freiza.

Waste energy ? it didn't waste any to put up the barrier and it came instantly. How often does he uses it ? how often does superman use half his shit lol this match is all out. Half the goku matches as well he is not even fighting his fullest, he is always playing like they said until lik ethe last ep or manga page.

no you never showed me. all you did was show picks of heat vission melting things and thats all thats in the thread. Everywhere I asked you to proove it's hotter than the sun, you aviod it some how ? just please show me again(you never showed me the first time) but by some chance you did, why don't you show me where it says it ? and not just assuming from the pics ?

Has Goku ever used IT in close combat? He's always using it from a distance. He didn't use it against Cell or Kid Buu, and he was going all out.

If Goku does happen to put up a barrier, Superman doesn't have to stop useing Heat Vision, he could just stand there over him with no problem, Goku will still be losing energy. Superman could either punch him or just sray him with Heat Vision it whouldn't matter.

And again go back and look through the thread, you can do it (even though you've seen scans). 😉

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Yes Cyber Ninja your correct, in DBZ terms, if the fighters did 1% of what they "could" do then the planet would be destroyed instantly. They have to hold back, they dont have a choice in DBZ

yes they hold back. king kai and the other Gods always say it. Also that when some one gets crazy goku always says wtf, you want to destroy the whole planet ? and kicks what ever away and puts on the serious face.