In the novelization it's cut clear: Dooku doesn't hold back. And if Obi-wan could have defeated Vader, he would have.
Now THAT is one Novelization I can dismiss.
It contradicts the Movies, therefore, It is NOT Canon.
It's Funny... The obvious nature of Dooku trying to lure Anakin to unleash his Dark sided Energies obviously doesn't apply to you. In AOTC his demeanor was different with Anakin. He chopped his Arm off and degraded his skills perpetually until Yoda busted in.
All of the sudden... They are on a ship, Dooku isolates Anakin and starts preaching to him about the Dark Side? Okay then.
And Judging by that bullshit Logic you've used before, Since Dooku can defeat Kenobi and Kenobi defeated Anakin then Dooku could crush Anakin.
Let me just throw my 2 cents in:
a) Luke is 19 years old in ANH. ROTS is 19 BBY, ANH is the year 0 (Battle of Yavin).
b) Arguing Luke's force potential is quite useless. When he is in his mid 40s (the NJO series) he's far above anybody else we have seen with the exception of some Sith Lords who were centuries old (e.g. Ragnos) but he's beyond every Jedi. And seen that Anakin's force potential is "above Yoda's" and "out of the scale" (and we don't get to know how much he is above Yoda), I personally accept the suggestion that he is the guy with the most potential in the entire EU universe with the exception of Anakin himself.
c) This, however, doesn't matter. We have seen that superior force potential is not a guarantee for winning a battle. Obi-Wan was nearly not chosen as a padawan but still he was able to defeat Anakin in ROTS because he had 20 years more training under his belt. So Luke, as he is in ESB, had virtually no training with the exception of the few weeks (at best) training with Yoda and Yoda had no lightsaber at that point meaning that he couldn't spare with Luke.
d) Even after the training with Yoda, Luke preferres his blaster over his lightsaber and don't even try to tell me he was a match for Vader. First both Obi-Wan and Yoda tell him he's not ready to go and face Vader at that point. Than Vader pretty much tools him by throwing objects at him (and Luke can't protect himself against it) and then - after Luke hit him once - he just swings his saber and Luke is disarmed and has lost a hand. You call that being equal to Vader ?
e) Now Zett somehow escaped from the temple that was invaded by an entire legion of clone troopers (several thousands) and Anakin (Darth Vader). Then he just does some nice surprise attack on some clones (notice: Clones of Jango Fett with the same reflexes and fighting skills) and killed 5 or six of them before getting shot. Luke in the end of ESB couldn't rescue Leia and Chewie that were guarded by 4 Stormtroopers.
So even if you want to suggest that Luke has the higher force potential, Zett has clearly years more training than Luke which includes lessons by Yoda (as he teaches all Younglings) and Cin Drallig (and Zett was mentioned to be one of Cin's best students). I don't see ESB Luke taking him...
and Yoda had no lightsaber at that point
Even after the training with Yoda, Luke preferres his blaster over his lightsaber
Now Zett somehow escaped from the temple that was invaded by an entire legion of clone troopers (several thousands) and Anakin (Darth Vader).
Then he just does some nice surprise attack on some clones (notice: Clones of Jango Fett with the same reflexes and fighting skills) and killed 5 or six of them before getting shot.
Luke in the end of ESB couldn't rescue Leia and Chewie that were guarded by 4 Stormtroopers.
Zett was mentioned to be one of Cin's best students
Originally posted by darthsith19
Is this a fact?
As far as we see in the film he had lost his lightsaber, directly after this he is transferred to Dagobah and he has beaten a Dark Jedi there without using a lightsaber. So he didn't have any lightsaber when he was on Dagobah.
He does? Why do you say that? And even if ture, Quinlan uses both equally and you can't say he'd lose to Zett.
Because he doesn't even bother to take his lightsaber in hand when he reaches Bespin. Instead you can see him running around with his blaster until the point when he meets Vader. That indicates that he preferred the blaster over his lightsaber - otherwise you would see him running around with his lightsaber.
Okay, first off I think we can safely assume that Zett did not have to challenge Vader, as Vader was off killing Cin, Serra and Shaak. Second, for all we know Zett was only a few feet away from where we saw him in the film when the attack came or was fighting alongside some other Jedi Masters. We can't just assume that he was in the heart of the temple and single handedly almost escaped.
What ? Obviously the Clone Troopers that invaded the temple marched through the temple to get to the landing platform on which Zett is killed later. Basically the entirety of the temple is a single battlefield. And now you're trying to tell me that Zett was basically standing "a few feet away" from the landing platform, waited until the Clone Troopers have marched through the temple, killing the other Jedi and have reached the landing platform and then he tried to escape instead just trying to get away when he realizes the temple is getting attacked ? Yeah...right...
Can someone get a count on how many there were and how many he killed?
Does that matter ? How many Stromtroopers did Luke kill using a ligthsaber from ANH to the end of ESB. Allright: NONE.
Cause if he shot them he might miss and hit Chewie or Leia. There were also some Imperial Officers as well as Lando, who, for all Luke new, was as much against him as Vader. And I'm sure if the trap hadn't caught him he'd have eventually ended up killing the Troopers.
Can you please tell me why he didn't switch his saber on and attack them ? That "precise weapon of a Jedi" ? Or are you going to tell me that he could have "accidentally" slaughtered Chewie and Leia ? And what...somebody who can't shoot straight and still hasn't learned how to handle a lightsaber will defeat Zett in lightsaber combat who has - according to the sw.com Databank shown "an acrobatic display of lightsaber prowess" when killing those stormtroopers. This compared to a person who swung the lightsaber like a baseball bat even 6 months later.
As far as we see in the film he had lost his lightsaber, directly after this he is transferred to Dagobah and he has beaten a Dark Jedi there without using a lightsaber. So he didn't have any lightsaber when he was on Dagobah.
Because he doesn't even bother to take his lightsaber in hand when he reaches Bespin. Instead you can see him running around with his blaster until the point when he meets Vader. That indicates that he preferred the blaster over his lightsaber - otherwise you would see him running around with his lightsaber.
Obviously the Clone Troopers that invaded the temple marched through the temple to get to the landing platform on which Zett is killed later.
And now you're trying to tell me that Zett was basically standing "a few feet away" from the landing platform, waited until the Clone Troopers have marched through the temple, killing the other Jedi and have reached the landing platform and then he tried to escape instead just trying to get away when he realizes the temple is getting attacked ?
Does that matter ? How many Stromtroopers did Luke kill using a ligthsaber from ANH to the end of ESB. Allright: NONE.
Can you please tell me why he didn't switch his saber on and attack them ?
And Luke may have not done well against Vader, but Zett would never have even gotten close to hitting his arm.
Originally posted by darthsith19
1. If he ignited his lightsaber, the noise would attract attention. Simply drawing a blaster is much more strealthy.
2. Regardless of #1 we see that he's intellegent enough to use a lightsaber when facing another lightsaber wielding opponent.
Attention when he had the stormtroopers already shooting at him and they already know where he was ? And the other lightsaber wielding opponent pwned him.
I said for all we know. And who's to say that all the Jedi knew as soon as the attack started? As far as I remember, Shaak Ti was sitting in her room meditation and was stabbed in the back.
Yeah. They won't realize massive blaster fire and they won't feel how all the Jedi are getting killed. The same Shaak Ti that was killed on the invisible hand by Grievous ? "The many deaths of Shaak Ti - Part X" ?
He was making his way towards him. What'd you expect him to do, rush at them immediately? Leia was screaming at him the moment they saw him "Luke don't! Don't! It's a trap! It's a trap!"
Yeah. I expect a Jedi able to handle a lightsaber go and fight 4 stormtroopers when there is - at that point - no possibility of a trap since he's running to a corridor following his friends.
And Luke may have not done well against Vader, but Zett would never have even gotten close to hitting his arm.
Proof ? Zett jumped an entire squad of clone troopers and killed some of them and then proceeded to deflect blaster fire from at least 3 people shooting at him before he finally get killed. He still has more training with both: the force and a lightsaber. And if nobody else would come close to wound Vader than only because Vader wouldn't hold back against anybody else.
All right, there's five Clones facing Bail that Zett sneaks up on. There's four Clones on near the beginning/middle of the bridge that leads to where Bail is. Back at the Temple entrance is two somethings, can't tell what, one on each side (they look like Snow Troopers but there wouldn't be Snowtroopers there). He kills four before they can even react. He slashed down two more. Then there's 6 Clones shooting at him. He blocks a total of six laser bolts. Six Clones remain when he dies, so even if those other two standing by the Temple were Clones another one either came from somewhere else extremely fast of one of the ones he hit survived.
From the ESB script: Luke rushes to a side hallway, but by the time he reaches it, Fett, Han, and the guards are gone. A think metal door blocks the passage. Luke turns to see Leia, Chewie, Threepio, and Lando being herded down a second hallway by several other stormtroopers. Leia turns just in time to see Luke. LEIA: Luke! Luke, don't - it's a trap! It's a trap!
Before she can finish, she is pulled through a doorway and disappears from sight. Luke races after the group, leaving little Artoo trailing behind.
When was he gonna kill the Troopers?
Luke runs into an anteroom and stops to get his bearings. Leia and the others are nowhere to be seen. Behind Luke, Artoo scoots down the corridor toward the anteroom when suddenly a giant metal door comes slamming down, cutting off Luke's exit. Several more doors clang shut, echoing through the chamber.
He was on his way but was being cautious due to Leia's warning.
Attention when he had the stormtroopers already shooting at him and they already know where he was ?
he same Shaak Ti that was killed on the invisible hand by Grievous ?
Yeah. I expect a Jedi able to handle a lightsaber go and fight 4 stormtroopers when there is - at that point - no possibility of a trap since he's running to a corridor following his friends.
And if nobody else would come close to wound Vader than only because Vader wouldn't hold back against anybody else.
He already had his blaster out at that point.
So Yoda in the same situation would have just stuck with the blaster as opposed to using his lightsaber which was right on his belt?
She wasn't - that scene was cut. We know it didn't happen because later in the film she'd seen in the Council Room.
Um...that scene was part of the DVD, and If Anakin killed Shaak Ti while she was meditating, why wasn't that included in the scene while the Grievous stabbing scene was? She was seen in the council room? Where?
From the ESB script: Luke rushes to a side hallway, but by the time he reaches it, Fett, Han, and the guards are gone. A think metal door blocks the passage. Luke turns to see Leia, Chewie, Threepio, and Lando being herded down a second hallway by several other stormtroopers. Leia turns just in time to see Luke. LEIA: Luke! Luke, don't - it's a trap! It's a trap!
Luke runs into an anteroom and stops to get his bearings. Leia and the others are nowhere to be seen. Behind Luke, Artoo scoots down the corridor toward the anteroom when suddenly a giant metal door comes slamming down, cutting off Luke's exit. Several more doors clang shut, echoing through the chamber.
Lightsaber can cut through doors you know. Qui-Gon demonstrated so in TPM.
He was on his way, but, intelligently, he stopped and started being cautious due to Liea's warning.
See above. His lightsaber could have easily cut through the door, I'm sure if he were at least on Qui-Gon's skill, he would have cut through the door and continued the pursuit. Stormtroopers can hardly fire straight. If Luke was as good as you deem him to be, they shouldn't be any threat to him at all.
He would if he knew Sidious wanted that particular Jedi alive. As for Zett hitting Vader, that's riducuous. Even in the suit Vader has killed Jedi Masters. What's a Youngling gonna do?
Well, Vader has killed Jedi Masters, what's a farmboy with a week of training gonna do?
Originally posted by DarkNemesis
So Yoda in the same situation would have just stuck with the blaster as opposed to using his lightsaber which was right on his belt?
I think Yoda would have just thrown them against the wall like he did in ROTS. No need to waste saber energy.
That's ANH Luke, not TESB Luke though. It really doesn't matter how good he was then.
Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Lightsaber can cut through doors you know. Qui-Gon demonstrated so in TPM.See above. His lightsaber could have easily cut through the door, I'm sure if he were at least on Qui-Gon's skill, he would have cut through the door and continued the pursuit. Stormtroopers can hardly fire straight. If Luke was as good as you deem him to be, they shouldn't be any threat to him at all.
What does him possibly being weaker then Qui-gon have to do with him being able to defeat Zett. Unless you think Zett would take Qui-gon...
Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Well, Vader has killed Jedi Masters, what's a farmboy with a week of training gonna do?
More then a weak youngling. Why do you complain about Luke getting as strong as he did so fast, but you turn a blind eye to Nomi Sunrider. She has less experince then Luke, but she took that Krath girl who had several years of training. She also knew how to stip Ulic's power. Why dousn't that bring you to the uproar it does whenever Luke is mentioned?