Zett Jukassa vs. TESB Luke Skywalker

Started by DarkNemesis6 pages

I think Yoda would have just thrown them against the wall like he did in ROTS. No need to waste saber energy.

My point was that Luke preferred his blaster over his lightsaber, which is clearly not a trait of a Jedi. Zett was able to fight off clonetroopers, I'm sure he would have made a better effort to save them, surely not with a blaster!

What does him possibly being weaker then Qui-gon have to do with him being able to defeat Zett. Unless you think Zett would take Qui-gon...

I wasn't saying that Zett would take Qui-Gon, merely saying that Qui-Gon DEMONSTRATED that lightsabers CAN cut through doors, but Luke DIDN'T do so to go after Leia and Chewie. Why not? Because if he did, I'm sure a few stormtroopers wouldn't be any threat to him.

More then a weak youngling.

For a kid his age, he actually impressed me more than ESB Luke did. Clonetroopers can unleash quite a bit of whoop-ass, and yet he managed to fight off four of five. I didn't see Luke even attempt to fight off any stormtroopers when he could have.

Why do you complain about Luke getting as strong as he did so fast, but you turn a blind eye to Nomi Sunrider. She has less experince then Luke, but she took that Krath girl who had several years of training. She also knew how to stip Ulic's power. Why dousn't that bring you to the uproar it does whenever Luke is mentioned?

Luke was pretty good, considering the cards he was dealt (such little experience and training), but come on, usually it takes decades to become even a fully trained apprentice. And where can I get more information on Nomi Sunrider? Cause this is the first time I have ever heard of her.

Why do you complain about Luke getting as strong as he did so fast, but you turn a blind eye to Nomi Sunrider. She has less experince then Luke, but she took that Krath girl who had several years of training. She also knew how to stip Ulic's power. Why dousn't that bring you to the uproar it does whenever Luke is mentioned?

Perhaps because Nomi lived around the order and had a Jedi husband?

So Yoda in the same situation would have just stuck with the blaster as opposed to using his lightsaber which was right on his belt?

No, he'd have used the Force. He doesn't have a blaster, Luke wasn't strong enough with the Force yet to make it more efficient in a fight than his blaster.
Um...that scene was part of the DVD, and If Anakin killed Shaak Ti while she was meditating, why wasn't that included in the scene while the Grievous stabbing scene was? She was seen in the council room? Where?

That happened in a deleted scene. Because she was in the film later on we know she didn't die then. Look at the scenes with the Council in them. She's there.
Lightsaber can cut through doors you know. Qui-Gon demonstrated so in TPM.

Luke turns to see Leia, Chewie, Threepio, and Lando being herded down a second hallway by several other stormtroopers.
See above. His lightsaber could have easily cut through the door, I'm sure if he were at least on Qui-Gon's skill, he would have cut through the door and continued the pursuit. Stormtroopers can hardly fire straight. If Luke was as good as you deem him to be, they shouldn't be any threat to him at all.

What are you talking about? he chose not to go through the door but to follow Leia. And that's the script, if I remember correctly the door was edited out of the film.
Well, Vader has killed Jedi Masters, what's a farmboy with a week of training gonna do?

It's been three years. And, as I hope you saw, he cut his arm and kicked him.

Ah! Glentract has arrived! 🙂

My point was that Luke preferred his blaster over his lightsaber

Cause it was more stealthy to pull out a blaster than to activate a lightsaber. Lightsabers attract annention with their light and noise.
For a kid his age, he actually impressed me more than ESB Luke did.

Me too. For his age. But for the amount of training he's had compared to how much traning Luke's had Luke's skills are far more impressive.

No, he'd have used the Force. He doesn't have a blaster, Luke wasn't strong enough with the Force yet to make it more efficient in a fight than his blaster.

Apparently he wasn’t good enough with a lightsaber to make IT more efficient in a fight than his blaster either.

That happened in a deleted scene. Because she was in the film later on we know she didn't die then. Look at the scenes with the Council in them. She's there.

I’m gonna have to re-check that. But if GL wanted to show us that Shaak Ti was still alive, why would he bother including the deleted scene? That seems rather strange.

Luke turns to see Leia, Chewie, Threepio, and Lando being herded down a second hallway by several other stormtroopers.

Zett managed to fight off several CLONE troopers, whom based on what we saw in the movies, are superior fighters to stormtroopers.

What are you talking about? he chose not to go through the door but to follow Leia. And that's the script, if I remember correctly the door was edited out of the film.

I haven’t seen ESB in a long time, but I was always under the impression that he saw the door was locked and he then decided to go through another door, leading to the chamber where Vader was waiting for him.

It's been three years. And, as I hope you saw, he cut his arm and kicked him.

Are you actually gonna tell me that Vader gave his all in that fight? Up until the point where Luke managed to cut Vader’s arm, he wasn’t giving any effort, and when he finally got pissed and decided “That’s it, no more Mr. Nice Guy”, off went Luke’s hand in a matter of seconds.

Cause it was more stealthy to pull out a blaster than to activate a lightsaber. Lightsabers attract annention with their light and noise.

WTF? The stormtrooper already saw him and fired at him! And even afterwards, he still decided to avoid attracting attention??

Me too. For his age. But for the amount of training he's had compared to how much traning Luke's had Luke's skills are far more impressive.

Zett most likely had more training than Luke. Why? How old was Zett, like 10 or something, padawans usually start their training at like three or four, so that’s six under Zett’s belt, more than Luke. Which of Luke’s skills are more impressive? Using a blaster? Well, no duh…

I think Yoda would have just thrown them against the wall like he did in ROTS. No need to waste saber energy.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
My point was that Luke preferred his blaster over his lightsaber, which is clearly not a trait of a Jedi. Zett was able to fight off clonetroopers, I'm sure he would have made a better effort to save them, surely not with a blaster!

It just shows what weapon Luke felt more comfortable with. Naga Sadow wasn't comfortable with a lightsaber, but that doesn't mean he couldn't pwn 99% of the people in the SW universe. It's just the way that he grew up and doesn't mean he is weak with his lightsaber.

What does him possibly being weaker then Qui-gon have to do with him being able to defeat Zett. Unless you think Zett would take Qui-gon...

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
I wasn't saying that Zett would take Qui-Gon, merely saying that Qui-Gon DEMONSTRATED that lightsabers CAN cut through doors, but Luke DIDN'T do so to go after Leia and Chewie. Why not? Because if he did, I'm sure a few stormtroopers wouldn't be any threat to him.

Luke probably didn't know. In anycase, it doesn't represente his duelling ability(does duelling have one or two 'l'?).

More then a weak youngling.

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
For a kid his age, he actually impressed me more than ESB Luke did. Clonetroopers can unleash quite a bit of whoop-ass, and yet he managed to fight off four of five. I didn't see Luke even attempt to fight off any stormtroopers when he could have.

He stood there and shot at them in ESB for a few seconds, killing one or two of them even as Han and Leia were telling him to run.

How does killing 4 or 5 Stormtroopers impress you more then him getting a hit on Vader? Vader could have pwned 5 times the number of Clones Zett did. Vader has killed at least 2 Jedi Masters, one of whom was a powerful Jedi and Mace's apprentice (but not a Vapaad user). Vader also killed 7 Jedi at the same time while in his suit, and Luke still held his own against him for about 3 or 4 minutes. All that in his suit.

Why do you complain about Luke getting as strong as he did so fast, but you turn a blind eye to Nomi Sunrider. She has less experince then Luke, but she took that Krath girl who had several years of training. She also knew how to stip Ulic's power. Why dousn't that bring you to the uproar it does whenever Luke is mentioned?

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Luke was pretty good, considering the cards he was dealt (such little experience and training), but come on, usually it takes decades to become even a fully trained apprentice. And where can I get more information on Nomi Sunrider? Cause this is the first time I have ever heard of her.

Really? Here's a quick bio:

On a mission to bring Adegan crystals to Master Thon of Ambria, Andur was confronted by agents of Bogga the Hutt, who demanded he hand over the crystals. When he refused, one of the agents sicced his pet (a poisonous lizard-like creature called a gorm-worm) onto Andur, killing him instantly. When his spirit spoke to his wife, she took up his lightsaber and slew most of his attackers. After this, Nomi vowed to never to use a lightsaber again, much like how Jedi Master Ikrit did in a similar situation, thousands of years later. This vow couldn't last long however, when she realized that a lightsaber was a needed and important weapon, but still maintained the belief that a lightsaber was to be used as little as possible. Bogga sent his men to follow her and take the crystals but they were unsuccessful.

Despite her original wishes, she accepted her destiny as a Jedi and was trained by Master Thon. As a Jedi, she met and fell in love with another Jedi named Ulic Qel-Droma and was with him for some time. When Ulic defected to the Sith (apprenticed to Exar Kun), he killed his brother Cay. In retaliation, Nomi severed his connection with The Force and was convinced that his love for her was severed. He ended up turning on Kun and helping the Jedi defeat him and win the Great Sith War. During the course of this terrible conflict, Nomi met and became good friends with fellow Jedi Knight Jolee Bindo and his wife Nayama, experiencing a number of battles together. In later years, Jolee would fondly recall his friendship with Nomi.

In the years following the end of the Sith War, Nomi lived on Coruscant, where she held the title of 'councilor.' She became a well-known Jedi Knight, becoming a spokesperson and de facto leader of them while becoming embroiled in Republic politics on the capital.

As her daughter Vima grew, she became somewhat rebellious and impatient. When she ran away to find Ulic to train her as a Jedi, her mother searched and found her. Although the meeting between her and her ex-lover was rather awkward, Nomi realized, after discovering the statues Ulic had carved, that he was finally beginning to find peace. Ulic, having trained Vima in the Jedi ways, was shot in the back and died in Nomi's arms. After this, Nomi concentrated on training her daughter.

Her final fate is, as of now, unknown. She was a great Jedi Master of her age, and through daughter Vima she was a multiple-great-grandmother of Vima Da-Boda.

It just shows what weapon Luke felt more comfortable with. Naga Sadow wasn't comfortable with a lightsaber, but that doesn't mean he couldn't pwn 99% of the people in the SW universe. It's just the way that he grew up and doesn't mean he is weak with his lightsaber.

What was Naga Sadow more comfortable with? Wasn't it a sith sword or something? And isn't a sith sword relatively similar to a lightsaber? Sorry, my knowledge of Star Wars outside of the Movie timeline is just very minimal.

Luke probably didn't know. In anycase, it doesn't represente his duelling ability(does duelling have one or two 'l'?).

But it does represent his very little knowledge on a lightsaber. And I believe dueling is spelt with one 'l'.

He stood there and shot at them in ESB for a few seconds, killing one or two of them even as Han and Leia were telling him to run.

Again, he was using his blaster , not his lightsaber.

How does killing 4 or 5 Stormtroopers impress you more then him getting a hit on Vader? Vader could have pwned 5 times the number of Clones Zett did. Vader has killed at least 2 Jedi Masters, one of whom was a powerful Jedi and Mace's apprentice (but not a Vapaad user). Vader also killed 7 Jedi at the same time while in his suit, and Luke still held his own against him for about 3 or 4 minutes. All that in his suit.

Which books, or comics, or whatever did all these fights take place in? As I've said, my knowledge of Star Wars outside of the movies is fairly iffy. And are you actually gonna tell me that Vader gave his all in that fight? Up until the point where Luke managed to cut Vader’s arm, he wasn’t giving any effort, and when he finally got pissed and decided “That’s it, no more Mr. Nice Guy”, off went Luke’s hand in a matter of seconds. Now, I DON'T consider that to be more impressive than fighting clonetroopers, as I have said, who were very skilled soldiers and are actually tring to kill you.

And Darth Traya (the member, not the character) did mention that Nomi lived in an age where the Jedi council existed and had a Jedi husband while Luke was in an age where the Jedi were all but wiped out.

BTW, darthsith, Glentract, nice debate going on. I have been as busy as hell preparing for summatives, exams and other such shit. Now that it's finally over, I'm so relieved. Keep it up guys 😄

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
It just shows what weapon Luke felt more comfortable with. Naga Sadow wasn't comfortable with a lightsaber, but that doesn't mean he couldn't pwn 99% of the people in the SW universe. It's just the way that he grew up and doesn't mean he is weak with his lightsaber.

Can you please tell me how Naga Sadow would be able to fight with a lightsaber if he didn't practice with the weapon considering there is a huge difference between a sword and a lightsaber which "blade" has no weight ? If Luke had enough confidence in his lightsaber skills he would have pulled out his lightsaber instead of his blaster. Yet, he didn't.


How does killing 4 or 5 Stormtroopers impress you more then him getting a hit on Vader? Vader could have pwned 5 times the number of Clones Zett did. Vader has killed at least 2 Jedi Masters, one of whom was a powerful Jedi and Mace's apprentice (but not a Vapaad user). Vader also killed 7 Jedi at the same time while in his suit, and Luke still held his own against him for about 3 or 4 minutes. All that in his suit.

The entire point is that Vader didn't gave Luke all he had for the entire fight. He was giving comments on Luke's movements ("Impressive ! Obi-Wan did teach you more than I thought..."😉, then he pwns him with throwing stuff at him - Vader doesn't move and still Luke gets pwned and then - in the second Luke hits Vader - Vader loses control for a single moment and Luke hand is gone. Vader dominated the entire fight and the only reason why Luke survived it was that Vader wanted to turn Luke to the Dark Side. So how is this a measure for Luke's duelling abilities ?

Nai, you're back! Now we have a two-on-two going on! 😄

Originally posted by Borbarad
Can you please tell me how Naga Sadow would be able to fight with a lightsaber if he didn't practice with the weapon considering there is a huge difference between a sword and a lightsaber which "blade" has no weight ? If Luke had enough confidence in his lightsaber skills he would have pulled out his lightsaber instead of his blaster. Yet, he didn't.

That was what I said. He was more confident with his blaster, and it was the better choice for much of the time sense they were fighting from father away. Luke probably would have pulled out his lightsaber if they had entered melee combat.

Originally posted by Borbarad
The entire point is that Vader didn't gave Luke all he had for the entire fight. He was giving comments on Luke's movements ("Impressive ! Obi-Wan did teach you more than I thought..."😉, then he pwns him with throwing stuff at him - Vader doesn't move and still Luke gets pwned and then - in the second Luke hits Vader - Vader loses control for a single moment and Luke hand is gone. Vader dominated the entire fight and the only reason why Luke survived it was that Vader wanted to turn Luke to the Dark Side. So how is this a measure for Luke's duelling abilities ?

If he had been two week, Vader would have just killed him, as he would be unworthy to be a Sith. Do you think Vader 'let' Luke get that hit on him?

That was what I said. He was more confident with his blaster, and it was the better choice for much of the time sense they were fighting from father away. Luke probably would have pulled out his lightsaber if they had entered melee combat.

Lightsaber can repel blasterfire you know. Which is why Jedi Master don't carry blasters around because lightsabers can do the trick too.

If he had been two week, Vader would have just killed him

Vader wanted Luke because of his amazing potential, not his skills as of then. If they turned him at that time, and complete his training with the dark side, think about how powerful of a sith Luke would have become.

Do you think Vader 'let' Luke get that hit on him?

He didn't let him, but he wasn't trying to kill Luke either. I didn't see Luke get a hit on Vader when Vader got pissed and really started hacking at him. As a matter of fact, I saw Luke's hand fly away in a matter of seconds.

ok... luke has almost no lightsaber skills at this point... and zett has trained for most of his short life... I'm going to vote for zett on this one...

btw, Glentract, when you reply to my posts, mind leaving out all the boldened text from before? Because it just makes it more confusing for me.

This is Luke "Babe Ruth" Skywalker. Zett Jukassa, as shown in ROTS, actually knows how to use his lightsaber. Luke. Will. Get. Owned.

Concurred.

No kid that ugly can possibly win.

lol.

Apparently he wasn’t good enough with a lightsaber to make IT more efficient in a fight than his blaster either.

We've gone over this. One more time: Stealth.
But if GL wanted to show us that Shaak Ti was still alive, why would he bother including the deleted scene?

Same reason we saw the other delet
ed scenes that we saw. To pleae us and to get GL $.
Zett managed to fight off several CLONE troopers, whom based on what we saw in the movies, are superior fighters to stormtroopers.

By catching them, by surprise. But if your really gonna be persistant, what do you think Zett would do had he been in Luke's position? Charged Boba fett and got WTF PWND?
I haven’t seen ESB in a long time, but I was always under the impression that he saw the door was locked and he then decided to go through another door, leading to the chamber where Vader was waiting for him.

I'll check.
Are you actually gonna tell me that Vader gave his all in that fight? Up until the point where Luke managed to cut Vader’s arm, he wasn’t giving any effort, and when he finally got pissed and decided “That’s it, no more Mr. Nice Guy”, off went Luke’s hand in a matter of seconds.

I know. But the fact still remains that Luke got a hit on Vader, something I doubt ROTS Zett could EVER do.
WTF? The stormtrooper already saw him and fired at him! And even afterwards, he still decided to avoid attracting attention??

You really do need to watch the film again, don't you? Boba's the first to shoot at Luke. Luke pulls out his blaster before anyone sees him.

does duelling have one or two 'l'?).

I think one. Dueling. You could use spell chec, too, you know. 😛
Vader has killed at least 2 Jedi Masters, one of whom was a powerful Jedi and Mace's apprentice (but not a Vapaad user).

What? Depa or someone else?
Vader also killed 7 Jedi at the same time while in his suit

When? Where? Who?

The entire point is that Vader didn't gave Luke all he had for the entire fight.

But even so, he wasn't trying to get hit and Luke did break his defenses, which is impressive, even if Vader wasn't going all-out.
Lightsaber can repel blasterfire you know. Which is why Jedi Master don't carry blasters around because lightsabers can do the trick too.

Also note that Zett uses a lightsaber and that Luke also definately preferred his lightsaber in a duel, which would be the case with Zett. The blaster actually has nothing to do with Zett vs. Luke.
No kid that ugly can possibly win.

You do know that Lucas reads these forums, right? 😉

Is that supposed to scare us?

Originally posted by DE Calvin
Is that supposed to scare us?

Notice the wink.