Originally posted by DiamondBullets
IDK, but I would consider the ROTS Novel more reliable than some random EU Clone Wars novel.
Unfortunately, it's Ataru in every other source in the EU universe. And since the ROTS novel and Matthew Stover didn't invent the term, the original definition trumps his botched spelling. Period.
Originally posted by Jawa Lord
Can you explain Kit Fisto's head being on a desk when that didn't happen in the movie?
No, but it's definately a blatant descrepency. Describing a fight in a book is a lot different than just showing it on film. I guess the author thought it would seem cool and interesting to the reader....
"On Palpatine's desk lay the head of Kit Fisto, faceup, scalp-tentacles unbound in a squid-tangle across the ebonite. His lidless eyes stared at the ceiling. Anakin remembered him in the arena at Geonosis, effortlessly carving his way throught wave after wave of combat droids, on his lips a gently humorous smile as though the horriffic battle were only some friendly jest. His severed head wore that same smile. Maybe he thought death was funny, too."
^ That's a lot more interesting to read in a book than if it just said "Palpatine slashed Kit Fisto and he dropped dead like a sack of potatoes."
....But thats between the book and the movie; the Ataru/Ataro thing is a whole different ballgame. The very word itself is EU, and the ROTS novel holds more credibility than some Clone Wars comic book.
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
No, but it's definately a blatant descrepency. Describing a fight in a book is a lot different than just showing it on film. I guess the author thought it would seem cool and interesting to the reader...."On Palpatine's desk lay the head of Kit Fisto, faceup, scalp-tentacles unbound in a squid-tangle across the ebonite. His lidless eyes stared at the ceiling. Anakin remembered him in the arena at Geonosis, effortlessly carving his way throught wave after wave of combat droids, on his lips a gently humorous smile as though the horriffic battle were only some friendly jest. His severed head wore that same smile. Maybe he thought death was funny, too."
^ That's a lot more interesting to read in a book than if it just said "Palpatine slashed Kit Fisto and he dropped dead like a sack of potatoes."
....But thats between the book and the movie; the Ataru/Ataro thing is a whole different ballgame. The very word itself is EU, and the ROTS novel holds more credibility than some Clone Wars comic book.
WTF? Are you just.... not with it?
You mean in all the EU sources that describe Ataru (From games, novels, Visual Dictionaries, etc. and on) must be wrong because it's spelled "Ataro" in the novelisation of the movie?
You DO realize that Ataru is strictly a non-movie concept, right?
Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
You mean in all the EU sources that describe Ataru (From games, novels, Visual Dictionaries, etc. and on) must be wrong because it's spelled "Ataro" in the novelisation of the movie?
Well, yeah. Doesn't the novelisation of the movie have more credibility over other EU? Or do you prefer holding some video game on higher a plateau than the novel?
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Well, yeah. Doesn't the novelisation of the movie have more credibility over other EU? Or do you prefer holding some video game on higher a plateau than the novel?
G-canon is absolute canon; the movies and anything coming directly from George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements coming directly from Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon (see below).
When the matter of changes between movie versions is brought up, the remastered editions are deemed superior to the theatrical ones, since they correct mistakes and improve consistency between the two trilogies. They also express Lucas' original intention and also final word.
C-canon is pretty much everything in the Expanded Universe: Star Wars books, comics, games, cartoons, and more. Games are a special case as generally only the stories are C-canon while things like stats and gameplay may not be. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon. (This includes: the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters, Salporin, and Action VI Transports.)
Read that carefully.
Novelisations are C-canon. Infact, the SW novelisation is considered the first EU work, along with Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Therefore, the ROTS novelisation and say, KOTOR or the Visual Dictionaries credibility are on a level playing field. And since tons of EU sources say "ataru", and only the ROTS novelisation says "ataro", the majority wins. Also, the term did NOT originate with the ROTS novelisation, therefore the author (Stover) does not have the authority nor the right to retcon it or otherwise change the spelling as he sees fit.
Originally posted by Illustrious
Yo'ure missing the point. The movies are G-canon. Nick Gillard's word is not. He is not George Lucas. He has said stuff that contradicts C-canon several times and that makes it suspect.So is Lucas' personal assistant the star wars king now too? Amazing what you'd twist so it works for you.
Is that why Mace is described as the "only one" to master Vaapad? Please.
That's only because there's it's own controversy in the Dooku Anakin duel, especially since Dooku dispatched both of them rather easily.
And besides, you're missing the point: You said:
No proof. Where is it stated they are [b]THE STRONGEST THE ORDER'D EVER KNOWN
? You use subjective BS, you'll get it stuffed in your face in an OBJECTIVE debate. Prove this statement, concede this argument, or don't bother.The statement falls victim to hyperbole because it is logically impossible.
If a comic says Batman can jump over buildings, I can chalk that up to hyperbole because Batman is a normal human, and that's impossible. You won't see him jumping over any Sears Towers any tme soon. You have yet to establish it as anything but hyperbole. In fact, there are numerous instances where the ancient sith said the "dark side" flew through him, does that mean they are a conduit too? No evidence. [/B]
1. He's still official on the matter.
2. Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba. He was the only living master of it. Sora was dead and Depa good as dead.
3. From the novelization, to the visual guides, to the encyclopedia, to logic over their skills and powers we've seen in action.
4. Batman's not a normal human, that's why he's Batman. And impossible? It's not, that's why it happened. We see Jacen become a pure conduit of the entire force, same with Anakin and Ganner. We see Luke call up all the energy of the entire galaxy against Palpatine. You say there's no evidence, but it's stated right there that Luke called upon the full strength of the light and Jacen ebcame a oure and utter conduit of the force and dispatched Onimi. ust because we don't get it doesn't make it impossible.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Again: He did design the fights but he has [b]absolutely nothing to do with the lightsaber styles as they appear in the EU. Period.Read Shatterpoint. Sidious didn't even know something about Vaapad and this is after Sora Bulq went dark. Mace in the book even states that Sora never mastered the style. So unless Mace Windu personally taught Vaapad to Sidious there is no way for Sidious to know that style. Period.
This is just comparing their strength leaving out personal relationship of the characters otherwise you could just say that both Maul and Dooku wouldn't try to fight Sidious. So cut that out.
And as it seems you're talking about Anakin vs Dooku - Dooku was sent there to throw the fight (read the novel) and Anakin surprised him. Does that mean Anakin > Dooku in terms of duelling. No.It is impossible since "becoming a conduit of the force" would mean that you yourself become the force - the entirety energy stored in all life forms throughout the entire Galaxy. It's simply impossible as it is. They might have become very close to the force (in terms of attunement to it) but sure as hell no "pure conduit", "avatar" or similar things "of the force". [/B]
1. Fine. We';ve still got Shadow Hunter and the earlier quote,t hough.
2. Mace said Vaapad mastered Sora and before Sora goes dark, Mace's tune is quite changed...how would Mace know about Sidious at all in SP? Sora manages to square off with Mace for a short time withVaapad and Mace considered him a master...he said it mastered him because he went dark
3. And in the novel Dooku is fighting seriously because the plan went awry. And no, mentality is a large part of fighting. Anakin was better than Dooku.
4. Except there are. Because it's outright stated to happen in several cases. Because we don't understand it doesn't mean it's impossible. Jacen does it, Luke does it and Anakin does it. Luke calls up all the power of the force from all beings, planets, metal, grass....Luke did use all of the energy of the Force and Jacen did the same. They opened themselves up entirely to the Force, it's right there, written down.
OH and Sorgo, here's the Kit's ehad explanation: Stover got that fromt he script, Lucas changed it. The novelizations and radio dramas do take a bit of precedence over other EU, I believe is the policy
No, NG is not "teh uber sowrce", Lightsnake. I know you want to believe he is, but he isn't. I've shown you proof that NG had nothing to do with the EU forms and styles. I've shown you the SW canon policy, where ideas that come from GL and GL alone (through the movies, etc.) are G-canon, and C-canon includes all of EU. Nick Gillard is not listed in the canon hierarchy, and his words are unsubstantiated hyperbole, period.
No, but it's definately a blatant descrepency. Describing a fight in a book is a lot different than just showing it on film. I guess the author thought it would seem cool and interesting to the reader....
"On Palpatine's desk lay the head of Kit Fisto, faceup, scalp-tentacles unbound in a squid-tangle across the ebonite. His lidless eyes stared at the ceiling. Anakin remembered him in the arena at Geonosis, effortlessly carving his way throught wave after wave of combat droids, on his lips a gently humorous smile as though the horriffic battle were only some friendly jest. His severed head wore that same smile. Maybe he thought death was funny, too."
^ That's a lot more interesting to read in a book than if it just said "Palpatine slashed Kit Fisto and he dropped dead like a sack of potatoes."
I didn't have to read all that to tell you that it's irrelevant to the point that Fisto's death from the book ALTERED from what happened in the movie. And you saying that Kit's head getting lopped off is more interesting than him getting outmaneuvered and slashed to the floor is your opinion and is NOT a good excuse for the Novelisation to have said what was wrong.
....But thats between the book and the movie; the Ataru/Ataro thing is a whole different ballgame. The very word itself is EU, and the ROTS novel holds more credibility than some Clone Wars comic book.
The ROTS contains Fallacy to the movie, damnit! How the hell would it hold more water than some EU Books that don't interfere with the Movie like the Novel did?
I smell a Non Sequitur.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Fine. We';ve still got Shadow Hunter and the earlier quote,t hough.2. Mace said Vaapad mastered Sora and before Sora goes dark, Mace's tune is quite changed...how would Mace know about Sidious at all in SP? Sora manages to square off with Mace for a short time withVaapad and Mace considered him a master...he said it mastered him because he went dark
3. And in the novel Dooku is fighting seriously because the plan went awry. And no, mentality is a large part of fighting. Anakin was better than Dooku.
4. Except there are. Because it's outright stated to happen in several cases. Because we don't understand it doesn't mean it's impossible. Jacen does it, Luke does it and Anakin does it. Luke calls up all the power of the force from all beings, planets, metal, grass....Luke did use all of the energy of the Force and Jacen did the same. They opened themselves up entirely to the Force, it's right there, written down.
OH and Sorgo, here's the Kit's ehad explanation: Stover got that fromt he script, Lucas changed it. The novelizations and radio dramas do take a bit of precedence over other EU, I believe is the policy
The one change virtually renders the book useless.
It goes DIRECTLY AGAINST CANON! Do you understand that?