Is fornication a sin?

Originally posted by dani_california
but seriously, JesusisAlive, does it really matter if the two people are legaly married as long as they love eachother?

My first answer was as serious as this response. Yes it does matter. Read my initial post in this thread again. But, some women (and men) have low standards and/or no fortitude to stick to their guns and abstain from sexual intercourse until marriage. In the immortal words of singer Tina Turner: "what's love got to do with it?" If you love someone then you will wait for that person to marry you before having sex with them. I do not want to go all into it again so just re-read my posts in this thread on the subject.

One question. Did Adam and Eve ever get married?

Originally posted by dark99
One question. Did Adam and Eve ever get married?

The Bible does not reveal whether they were or not. But God commands it now if a person wants to have sex. Adam and Eve were first mentioned in the Book of Genesis. I believe that they were married based on the following Scripture taken from the first Book of the Bible: Genesis. Read:

Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

That means "Have Sex."

Originally posted by debbiejo
That means "Have Sex."

Oh, snap! I just realized that it says ...be joined to his wife.... I didn't see that before. As early as Adam and Eve God states that the man is to have a wife if he desires to have sex. You are absolutely right Debbijoe. Actually you are supporting what I am saying (I know that was not your intent). Notice how the word "wife" is used in the same sentence with "...the two shall become one flesh." Sex and marriage go hand in hand like a hand in glove (play on words not intended).

But that never said that Adam and Eve were married it just stated that that's what humans should do when they want to get married.... It never mentioned adam or eve...

Originally posted by dark99
But that never said that Adam and Eve were married it just stated that that's what humans should do when they want to get married.... It never mentioned adam or eve...

Friend, it is understood (or implicit). God would not want less for His first man and woman than He wants for us.

I believe the wording really means union, not marriage. It could also mean a joining of the male and female energies or Yin/Yang. In Kaballah it could meanancient Nazorean teachings of the middle east which do indeed predate later Christianity. In the myth, Sophia becomes separated from her consort and is expelled from the heavenly Pleroma. Christ then descends to her aid and she is joined to him. The main points of the myth are often related to an allegorical interpretation of the Book of Genesis. In this allegory, Eve is identified with Sophia while Adam is interpreted as Christ. This is a later Christianization of an earlier Gnostic Mythos. This mythos would be later augmented and enhanced by Mar Mani in the third century.

Deveikut: ("clinging"😉: Hebrew
Deveikut is a state of union wherein two parties lose awareness of themselves as separate entities and experience themselves as one undifferentiated essence. Deveikut may occur both between the soul and G-d, as it is written, "and you who cling unto G-d your G-d?" (Deuteronomy 4:4) and between husband and wife, as it is written, "?and cling unto his wife" (Genesis 2:24).

The correct use of the light of wisdom is attained only through a correct mating between the ‘man’ and the ‘woman’: the mating between the desire to give and the will to receive, between Zeir Anpin and Malchut of Atzilut. The souls compel them to mate by raising desire for correction, called raising “MAN”.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Friend, it is understood (or implicit). God would not want less for His first man and woman than He wants for us.

Then you're reading into the Bible things that aren't there. Meaning, you're a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Xirius
I know that the Catholic church says that its a sin....but lets face it. The church is not above corruption or bad mistakes....what Im really wondering is, in Gods eyes, is it a sin?

Yes.

Sure it is a sin. No doubt about it. It is not only because the pope "said so".

No matter how many times we try to convince ourselves that "it is a natural instinct, it should be a good thing"
No matter that everybody else "does it", it is still a sin.

Why? Because we are human beings, with free will and intelligence, made by god for loving him and to be loved by him. The love within us, I mean the real love, the one who make us care and effort to make other people happy (the real happiness, not temporary pleasures), is the major gift we have from God.

Sexual act has its true meaning and value only with your husband/wife, for love. Otherwise, it is just a temporarily pleasure, in which you are seeing the other just as an object of pleasure, and even worse, you see yourself as an object, or just as an animal whose sexual instinct must be satisfied. You would be wasting the precious gift that God has given to you.

Love God, Love yourself, Love humanity.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Sure it is a sin. No doubt about it. It is not only because the pope "said so".

No matter how many times we try to convince ourselves that "it is a natural instinct, it should be a good thing"
No matter that everybody else "does it", it is still a sin.

Why? Because we are human beings, with free will and intelligence, made by god for loving him and to be loved by him. The love within us, I mean the real love, the one who make us care and effort to make other people happy (the real happiness, not temporary pleasures), is the major gift we have from God.

Sexual act has its true meaning and value only with your husband/wife, for love. Otherwise, it is just a temporarily pleasure, in which you are seeing the other just as an object of pleasure, and even worse, you see yourself as an object, or just as an animal whose sexual instinct must be satisfied. You would be wasting the precious gift that God has given to you.

Love God, Love yourself, Love humanity.

You tell 'em. I mean screw the perpetuation of our species lets all just be nice to each other instead.

Plus everyone knows that even if you do allow sex between married couples changing sex into a mechanical act in no way makes women into objectified being who exist only for making and raising children.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You tell 'em. I mean screw the perpetuation of our species lets all just be nice to each other instead.

Plus everyone knows that even if you do allow sex between married couples changing sex into a mechanical act in no way makes women into objectified being who exist only for making and raising children.

Who said that?

Anyway, you make sound raising children as a punishment from god or something. Fathers like me, know that the happiness of raising children is far beyond anything else. But that's another topic.

Sexual act is the best way of love expression for couples, in which they give not only physical pleasure to each other, but their entire being, their love. Even more if you want the blessing of having children.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Anyway, you make sound raising children as a punishment from god or something. Fathers like me, know that the happiness of raising children is far beyond anything else. But that's another topic.

How do you know the happiness of raising children is greater than anything else ?

What about the happiness of feeding a starving person ? Of freeing a slave or prisoner ? If curing a person's fatal illness ?

Of falling in Love with a person who loves you more than anything in this world ?

Have you experienced ALL other joys ?

If not, then how can you claim you know the greatest joy ?

Originally posted by darkfan76
Sexual act is the best way of love expression for couples, in which they give not only physical pleasure to each other, but their entire being, their love.

That is true, for straight and gay couples alike. We don't need marriage to validate that darkfan....we don't need marriage to fall in love or express it.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Even more if you want the blessing of having children.

What if I don't want kids ?

Originally posted by darkfan76
Who said that?

Sarcasm.

Originally posted by darkfan76
Anyway, you make sound raising children as a punishment from god or something. Fathers like me, know that the happiness of raising children is far beyond anything else. But that's another topic.

Sexual act is the best way of love expression for couples, in which they give not only physical pleasure to each other, but their entire being, their love. Even more if you want the blessing of having children.

😕 Actually I was pointing out the fact that in say the Victorian era when sex was reduced to existing only for procreation it objectified women beyond all sane extent.

Along with all other kinds of sexual immorality, sex before marriage/premarital sex is repeatedly condemned in Scripture (Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7)

The Bible promotes abstinence before marriage. Sex before marriage is just as wrong as adultery and other forms of sexual immorality, because they all involve having sex with someone you are not married to. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations that God approves of (Hebrews 13:4).

Sex before marriage has become so common for many reasons. Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing the “re-creation” aspect. Yes, sex is pleasurable. God designed it that way. He wants men and women to enjoy sexual activity (within the confines of marriage). However, the primary purpose of sex is not pleasure, but rather reproduction. God does not outlaw sex before marriage to rob us of pleasure, but to protect us from unwanted pregnancies and children born to parents who do not want them or are not prepared for them. Imagine how much better our world would be if God’s pattern for sex was followed: fewer sexually transmitted diseases, fewer un-wed mothers, fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions, etc.

Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies, gives sexual relations the proper value, and most importantly honors God.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
How do you know the happiness of raising children is greater than anything else ?

What about the happiness of feeding a starving person ? Of freeing a slave or prisoner ? If curing a person's fatal illness ?

Of falling in Love with a person who loves you more than anything in this world ?

[b]Have you experienced ALL other joys ?

If not, then how can you claim you know the greatest joy ?

That is true, for straight and gay couples alike. We don't need marriage to validate that darkfan....we don't need marriage to fall in love or express it.

What if I don't want kids ? [/B]

No need to be defensive.

I clearly stated " For fathers like me" did you read that? I also stated that that's another topic.

Yes I have fed the starving people and have experienced many of the joys you mentioned and others. You can see where I'm located, you should know that this country is very poor. But the happiness of being a father is greater than the above's.

I respect your opinion about not needing "marriage" to express your love for your couple through sexual act. For me as a Christian is not a matter of "needing", but a matter of be blessed by God, since the love me and my wife share comes from him and goes to him.

If you don't want to have kids, well ,you should know what you want or not 😕

Yes fornication is Sin. Yes we are human and subject to making mistakes every one stubles in their walk. but we all need to strive to do it God's way. When you accept Jesus sacrifice on the cross you also accept the redemption of his blood he gave his life and became sin so that those who would believe in Him would Live and not perish. It is not what the Church says, It is what God says! when you accept Jesus the Holy Spirit lives inside of you and you become the Temple of God. When you are a Christian and you Sin you take the Holy spirit into that sin with you, God ment for a Man to have one wife and a Woman to have one husband when a Man has sex with a woman they are bound to each other forever a part of each will always remain in them and then what God meant for you to give to the one he has set aside for you is tainted.

I find it interesting how people assume something is a sin only if you profit from it.

If fornication is truly a sin, then half the world as we know it is going to Hell, and Hell should be packed full. There should hardly be anyone in Heaven. 😉