the fact that he didn't kill Ra by his own hands and saying he didn't kill him is a stupid excuse...Batman wanted him dead...he is a killer in BB too, he is responsible for his death cause he could have saved him easily and he knew he was going to die and its what he wanted. He is an avenger and a killer.
Originally posted by Cascador
the fact that he didn't kill Ra by his own hands and saying he didn't kill him is a stupid excuse...Batman wanted him dead...he is a killer in BB too, he is responsible for his death cause he could have saved him easily and he knew he was going to die and its what he wanted. He is an avenger and a killer.
Batman didn't want Ra's dead, he just knew that he was too dangerous to keep alive. He said he wasn't an executioner and he never became one. Killing and "not saving" are two very different things.
So are you one of those people that say the bullet killed someone and not the person who pulled the trigger? lol
Ok so if the train, explosion, and fire killed him....and not Batman....answer me this:
If Batman hadn't have come up with the plan...told Gordon to use his car to blow up the track, planned to have the train continue to go and to blow up (He did say he wasn't planning on stopping the train, so he wanted it to be destroyed), and if he wasn't fighting Ra's and making sure he'd stick in there until it was pretty much solidified that he would die........if Batman hadn't have done that stuff, would Ra's have died?
Would Ra's have died by simply going on the train like so many people do during the day? You can't possibly tell me that the train would've had a freak accident at that specific time and would have done the same stuff and he'd have died lol
Batman was responsible for Ra's Al Ghul's death. He didn't stab or shoot him, or beat him to death, but he did everything else.
Originally posted by Cascador
Well Batman from '89 isn't responsible for the Joker's death, he expected him to be trapped, how could he know that the statue was gonna break.
Oh come on,what did he think the Joker was going to do?? Dangle there forever??? And if he let go of the ladder he'd be screwed.
And when the statue did break and started pulling Joker down slowly,Batman didn't even try and help him.And he could have.He waited until he dropped before pulling himself and Vicki up.
He wanted to watch Joker die.
Now don't get me wrong I love Batman 89,but Batman was a killer in Burton's movies.
Originally posted by Cascador
well I dont say he isn't a killer...I know he wanted him dead, he said so himself, but how could Batman know he would die that way! And why didn't Batman save the Joker? He had to save his own Batbutt first and Vale's butt.
So you say it was Batman's intention to trap Joker?? By strapping his leg to an old gargoyle statue while Joker was dangling from a helicopter.And you think Batman honestly didn't think Joker could die from this??
Let's pretend that's true,what about when Joker slowly started to fall?? Why didn't Batman try and pull himself and Vicki up then.I mean Joker was trapped right?? He couldn't do anything to stop them or hurt them.
No,Batman waited until Joker fell,then he pulled himself and Vicki up.It took little effort too.Only snag was that the ledge broke.And even then he saved themselves using his bat rope thing.No doubt he could have done the same for Joker when he fell.
But Batman wanted Joker to die.
Originally posted by Cascador
the fact that he didn't kill Ra by his own hands and saying he didn't kill him is a stupid excuse...Batman wanted him dead...he is a killer in BB too, he is responsible for his death cause he could have saved him easily and he knew he was going to die and its what he wanted. He is an avenger and a killer.
If Batman is morally responsible for Ra's death because he could have saved him but didn't, he would also have been morally responsible for all the deaths that Ra's would go on to cause; after all, he could have saved them by letting Ra's die--but he didn't.
I was thinking about DKR. If you look through the fight with the Mutant Leader, Bats was effectively trying to cause enough damage to the Leader to kill him, and not caring whether it did or not. He punches the Leader at one point, then says "His nose breaks, his neck holds." So Bats was TRYING to break the Mutant Leader's neck.
Originally posted by Doc Ock
Oh come on,what did he think the Joker was going to do?? Dangle there forever??? And if he let go of the ladder he'd be screwed.And when the statue did break and started pulling Joker down slowly,Batman didn't even try and help him.And he could have.He waited until he dropped before pulling himself and Vicki up.
He wanted to watch Joker die.
Now don't get me wrong I love Batman 89,but Batman was a killer in Burton's movies.
Thats because in Burtons movies Joker is the one that kills his parents and that in turn adds a new dimension to Batmans reasoning.
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Thats because in Burtons movies Joker is the one that kills his parents and that in turn adds a new dimension to Batmans reasoning.
The Joker killed Jason Todd,crippled Barbara Gordon,and killed Jim Gordon's wife in the comics.
Batman didn't kill him then either,or allow him to be killed.
Because Batman does not kill.And will do everything he can to stop someone from dying.
Originally posted by Doc Ock
The Joker killed Jason Todd,crippled Barbara Gordon,and killed Jim Gordon's wife in the comics.Batman didn't kill him then either,or allow him to be killed.
Because Batman does not kill.And will do everything he can to stop someone from dying.
Thats because the Batman in the comics is a whole different character-just because Burton's/Schumacher's version of Batman allows someone to be killed doesn't label the original concept a killer, as you point out.
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Thats because the Batman in the comics is a whole different character-just because Burton's/Schumacher's version of Batman allows someone to be killed doesn't label the original concept a killer, as you point out.
No,but the Batman of the movies is a killer.
He also set one of Penguin's circus gang on fire using the flame from the batmobile,He strapped a bomb to the strongman and shoved him into a hole or bunker and let him blow up,he tossed a bunch of coins at Two Face to confuse him while he was standing on a narrow ledge about 100 feet in the air.Then when Two Face did fall,again Batman didn't even try and save him.
He caused him to fall and he didn't try and save him.
Originally posted by Doc Ock
No,but the Batman of the movies is a killer.He also set one of Penguin's circus gang on fire using the flame from the batmobile,He strapped a bomb to the strongman and shoved him into a hole or bunker and let him blow up,he tossed a bunch of coins at Two Face to confuse him while he was standing on a narrow ledge about 100 feet in the air.Then when Two Face did fall,again Batman didn't even try and save him.
He caused him to fall and he didn't try and save him.
I'm not disputing that the Burton/Schumacher Batman is a killer, all I'm saying to people is: don't tarnish the idea of Batman being a killer because of those flawed films.