Look, Ive lost a lot of respect for Cascador with his comments. Bombing a bu nch of guys via the Batm,aobile is murder! Batman knew Ra's was far too dangerous, he'd stroll out of Arkham's gates no problem! He had to stop gnocide and knew Ra's could well escape. Also, destroying the monorail was the only way to save however million Gothamites!
I have to agree with Doc Ock on this one, Cascador...I've always believed Batman wanted Joker to die in Batman 1989, despite how much I love that film. For me, that Batman was very Punisher-like and all his use of bombs and missiles proved that. AT THE SAME TIME, I wasn't expecting him to just take a gun and blast someone and good thing that didn't happen. Or stick a knife in someone's throat.
Too many instances where Bats was using pretty lethal force--ie, when he toss that big goon down the cathedral, when he strapped the bomb on to the fat man in Batman Returns.
BUT that doesn't change that I still love both Burton's films.
It's what pissed me off about the Daredevil movie. In the comics, Daredevil refrains from killing as much as possible, believeing it wrong. But in the film, he was callous enough to CHUCK A RAPIST INTO THE PATH OF A SPEEDING TRAIN! Whoa! He was a pretty evil guy, actually. It ruined the entire thing for me.
In the 1989 Batman film during the fight on the top of cathedral. Batman kills one of the Joker's goons by bangin his head into the bell and then throwing him into the broken stairway. That is not only a act of murder but also something Batman would NEVER do! But given the fact that Burton directed the film and he wasn't introduce to the character properly. As Batman fans (i.e. some of us) we forgive but not forget.
A good example of Batman's actions can be found in A Death in the Family. Using spoiler tags of course:
Spoiler:
When the Joker and Batman are fighting in the helicopter one of Joker's henchmen pulls out an Ak-47 and starts shooting. Hits the Joker in the chest and Batman on the arm. The henchman takes out the pilot and the copter goes down. Giving only enough time for Batman to escape, but not to rescue the Joker. Batman is injured so cannot pull the joker out on time. He only has time to say "farewell old foe" and jumps off.
Despite Batman's rage over the death of Jason. He still gave the Joker's plenty of chances for him to surrender to the authorities. The Joker in his maniacal state of mind refuse and taunted Batman. Not once did he snap and try to kill the Joker.
Batman plays by the rules. He doesn't kill! He believes in aprehending and arresting criminals and turn them to the law. He doesn't make justice and then apply punishment. He fights for justice. He believes criminals should always be trial by a court of law. Unlike a cop he doesn't have the luxury of killing in the name of law. His methods of interogation are harsh but effective. And he never murders anyone during his investigations.
Both Batman and from Batman Begins are killers! I never said that the neither one isn't...I just said that Batman didn't intend to kill the Joker the way he was killed in the film. He wanted vengeance, no doubt. But I think he wanted to kill him by his own hands rather than falling with a broken statue. Batman from BB is a killer too, he put a whole house on fire with ninja's and altho he didn't kill Ra by his own hands he is responsible for his death. Cause the line he says that he doesn't have to save him is meant to be sarcastic. He knows he's gonna die, cause he asked Gordon to blow up the rails. He knew his own life was in danger that way but that was a risk he had to take. So it was almost a suicide mission.
I guess you can say Batman in Batman Begins was less direct in his killing, as opposed to Batman in Batman REturns when he strapped a fricckin bomb to a goon's waist or in Batman 1989 when he threw the goon off the cathedral. Batman bombing the ninjas in BB can justify it because he "allowed them to escape" amidst all the mayhem despite blowing their house apart. Just like he "allowed" Ras to save himself on the train, as farfetched as that sounds.
In fact, in BB, the idea of not killing is more expressed due to that scene with Rachel slapping Bruce for carrying a gun and wanting to kill Joe Chill. In Burton's Batman, Bats just goes and takes care of things and casualties occur without remorse. They never emphasized that Batman doesn't kill.
But yea, the line's very blurry and I think in all the movies, his actions led to death some way or another.
Originally posted by Gregory
Nonsense. Not only isn't he saying that, he explicitly declines to use the Batmobiel's guns. How do you get from "His neck didn't break" to "I was trying to break it"?
He punched him incredibly hard, and said that his neck held. So, if he was punching him with a punch that he knew was strong enough to break it, he must have tried to. If he wasn't trying to break teh Mutant's neck, he wouldn't have punched him hard enough to.