Insults to muslims or freedom of speech?

Originally posted by Wonderer
See http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/terrorist1.html

The quran, Islam's holy book, teaches it's believers to kill and violently oppose anyone who does not believe in their religion. Any religion, faith, philosophy or amy movement or individual person who does not accept other people's beliefs and who forces others to believe them, or who believes in killing and violently opposing any other people who believe and think differently about life, should be dispised.

According to the Quran, any Muslim who believes what the Quran teaches, is a violent person who does not respect people with different beliefs.

I am against all real Muslims, or anyone who believes in what the Quran teaches.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10

If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods' (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him.

But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 was given to Israel in the pre-Church age. It was the law prior to Christianity. Christians are not under that law, that was Israel.

Just to clarify. 🙂

Shouldn't it then coincide?

If we were to re-correct this world according to the facts of which part of it is rightfully the property of certain people/nations, the current situation, borders and populations appear to be total nonsense and very unjust (as they actually are).
So do not drag up ancient quotes justifying an blinded way of thinking that should be overruled by common sense and mutual understanding by now.

Originally posted by frau
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 was given to Israel in the pre-Church age. It was the law prior to Christianity. Christians are not under that law, that was Israel.

Just to clarify. 🙂

Good job for paying attention. Major props to ya. 😄

Originally posted by frau
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 was given to Israel in the pre-Church age. It was the law prior to Christianity. Christians are not under that law, that was Israel.

Just to clarify. 🙂

Who said the law doesn't apply...you are just not judged by it as all according to Scripture. It never said it was done away with....If you're referring to the scripture that says "it was nailed to the tree"...That doesn't mean the law, it means your penalty for your sins.

Doing away with the law and saying it was for the Jews is a new teaching of dispensation. Started in the late 1800's.

The law was given to Israel, but it was completed by Jesus. Christians keep the laws "through" Jesus. Just like we are no longer under obligation to animal sacrifice we are no longer under obligation for the example given in Deut.

The law must be kept 100% or nothing. Either we keep 100% of the laws ourselves (impossible) or we turn to Grace and Jesus fullfills the laws 100%, which grants complete forgiveness to us. Jesus gave two commandments to follow which encompass the whole of the law.

I didn't mean to imply that the covanent with Israel was broken. Dispensationalism is clearly wrong from what I've studied.

Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets Mat. 5:17

Jesus.....

If you complete that sentence it is that the law was fulfilled by Jesus. It was not done away with but it was fulfilled. Christians are no longer under any of the old laws. The Bible is very clear about that. The whole point of Jesus dying on the cross was to put an end to them. Like if you are building a house to do away with it would be to destroy it, but to fulfill it would be to finish it and then it is done. To believe that the law is still in effect makes what Jesus did on the cross unnecessary. It is legalism. Working one's way to Heaven which is what Islam is... In Islam Heaven must be earned, in Christianity it is a free gift of Grace. If we were still under the law then Grace would be not the whole of it, but rather an incidental extra insurance policy.

Maybe we are just misunderstanding each other? Are you saying that all the old laws must be kept by a Christian including for instance all the Levitical laws, animal sacrifice, dietary laws etc...?

Originally posted by frau
If you complete that sentence it is that the law was fulfilled by Jesus. It was not done away with but it was fulfilled. Christians are no longer under any of the old laws. The Bible is very clear about that. The whole point of Jesus dying on the cross was to put an end to them. Like if you are building a house to do away with it would be to destroy it, but to fulfill it would be to finish it and then it is done. To believe that the law is still in effect makes what Jesus did on the cross unnecessary. It is legalism. Working one's way to Heaven which is what Islam is... In Islam Heaven must be earned, in Christianity it is a free gift of Grace. If we were still under the law then Grace would be not the whole of it, but rather an incidental extra insurance policy.

Maybe we are just misunderstanding each other? Are you saying that all the old laws must be kept by a Christian including for instance all the Levitical laws, animal sacrifice, dietary laws etc...?

Matthew 5:17-18 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, Not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfill."

Heaven and earth has not yet passed away.....A jot or a tittle means even something very minute and small. No changes not even a small one is taken away from the law.

In fact Jesus kept them.

He didn't keep the Sabbath, and he didn't keep the ritual purity laws.

(Also, I think that the verse you quoted is found only in Matthew, and it since Matthew is by far the most "Jewish" Gospel, it might have been invented by him.)

Originally posted by Gregory
He didn't keep the Sabbath, and he didn't keep the ritual purity laws.

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Originally posted by Gregory
(Also, I think that the verse you quoted is found only in Matthew, and it since Matthew is by far the most "Jewish" Gospel, it might have been invented by him.)

He invented it????

...which is not keeping the Sabbath, according to the Jewish religion at the time. It's easy to forget, in a time where "keeping the Sabbath" means staying home from work and going to church for a few hours, but the Jews weren't even allowed to build a fire on the Sabbath; if they wanted hot food, they had to ask a Gentile to do it for them. It's not just doing good that Jesus was willing to do on the Sabbath; he also, for example, plucked grain, which was unlawful. Even if he's not ignoring the Sabbath, he's certainly not keeping every "jot and tittle" of the law.

Originally posted by Wonderer
See http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/terrorist1.html

The quran, Islam's holy book, teaches it's believers to kill and violently oppose anyone who does not believe in their religion. Any religion, faith, philosophy or amy movement or individual person who does not accept other people's beliefs and who forces others to believe them, or who believes in killing and violently opposing any other people who believe and think differently about life, should be dispised.

According to the Quran, any Muslim who believes what the Quran teaches, is a violent person who does not respect people with different beliefs.

I am against all real Muslims, or anyone who believes in what the Quran teaches.

Wow, sounds like some real JDL/Kachane Chai bullshit right there

He didn't keep the Sabbath, and he didn't keep the ritual purity laws

Originally posted by Gregory
...which is not keeping the Sabbath, according to the Jewish religion at the time. It's easy to forget, in a time where "keeping the Sabbath" means staying home from work and going to church for a few hours, but the Jews weren't even allowed to build a fire on the Sabbath; if they wanted hot food, they had to ask a Gentile to do it for them. It's not just doing good that Jesus was willing to do on the Sabbath; he also, for example, plucked grain, which was unlawful. Even if he's not ignoring the Sabbath, he's certainly not keeping every "jot and tittle" of the law.

I guess It's ok to pick and chose which things you will follow or not...If you're going to keep the bible as your authority, then you need to keep it all....

Plucking grain was not unlawful...It was an earlier law in the OT that said that the poor could gleen the fields for food....That is to pick what is left by farmers for the poor and needy....no law broken there....

Show me the verse where Jesus said to do away with the Sabbath or any of the law...I've showed you that it was meant to be kept. Not my fault that the church did away with them for their own purposes....Jesus kept them, his disciples kept them, and the early church kept them.....

There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him ... are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him

For Christ's sake, Jesus constantly ignored that sort of thing. He did forbidden stuff on the Sabbath and then slapped down the people who complained, he ate with sinners, he healed a menstrating woman even though contanct with her would make him "unclean" ... there's a saying, debbiejo, that actions speak louder than words; you can't just ignore all the instances of Jesus ignoring Jewish law by yelling "Matthew!"

Anyway, since we're apparently all incapable of reaching sensible conclussions from what Jesus did I've included a verse where he nullifies ritual food laws, verbally.

Originally posted by Gregory
For Christ's sake, Jesus constantly ignored that sort of thing. He did forbidden stuff on the Sabbath and then slapped down the people who complained, he ate with sinners, he healed a menstrating woman even though contanct with her would make him "unclean" ... there's a saying, debbiejo, that actions speak louder than words; you can't just ignore all the instances of Jesus ignoring Jewish law by yelling "Matthew!"

Anyway, since we're apparently all incapable of reaching sensible conclussions from what Jesus did I've included a verse where he nullifies ritual food laws, verbally.

Jesus did GOOD on the sabbath, which does not nullify it....He kept all 10 commandments. If you're gonna throw one out, might as well throw out the rest...They seem to be changeable then..and as he said:

Till heaven and earth pass, Not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfill."

.........I think he meant there will be no changes...How much clearer can he be.. 🙄

If your gonna follow scripture and Jesus then you must follow his words all the way.

This say nothing about any change Jesus had made to the law regarding to the sabbath.

So when you asked for an example of Jesus doing away with the Sabbath or any of the law you weren't serious? The ritual purity laws aren't laws?

The law says that adulteress women should be stones; do you happen to remember what Jesus said about that law?

Jesus didn't just do good on the Sabbath; he picked grain on the Sabbath; that isn't "doing good." I already mentioned this. Ignoring someone's points until he gives up and goes away isn't the same as winning an argument.

Read all of Galatians... In Galatians 4 it tells of Ishmael and Issac, the difference between the children of Ishmael are under bondage, but the children under Issac are free.

Gal 3:23-25 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore, the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Gal 5:1-2 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ you who attempt to be justified by law, you have fallen from grace.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Gal 5: 14 For ALL the law is fulfilled in ONE WORD, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."