How many Christians are Christian only because of fear?

Originally posted by peejayd
* i am a Christian by choice and by faith, not out of fear... my two cents: in the Bible, the word "fear" does not literally means you are afraid of something, example:

"This is the end of the matter; all hath been heard: [b]fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man."
Ecclesiastes 12:13

* here, fearing God is keeping His commandments... other passages include:

"The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
Psalms 19:9

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever."
Psalms 111:10

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Proverbs 1:7

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Proverbs 8:13

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."
Proverbs 9:10

"The fear of the Lord prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened."
Proverbs 10:27

"In the fear of the Lord is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge."
Proverbs 14:26

"The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death."
Proverbs 14:27

"The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
Proverbs 15:33

"The fear of the Lord tendeth to life: and he that hath it shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil."
Proverbs 19:23 [/B]

So, just change the meaning of the word. 🙄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, when I became a Buddhist, I got "but you will burn in hell" from all of my family. They were using fear to try and stop me from becoming a Buddhist.

Well I did say "most." I still don't think it motivates most Christians, though I understand that your experience differs from mine, and that it will necessarily influence our perceptions. Instead of hellish accusations, I got a lot of "If there isn't a God, what's the point?" and "Do you feel an emptiness?" type of questions. More an appeal to emotions of belonging rather than fear. No one actually tried to guilt or fear me back into the religion, though I did encounter at least one twist on Pascal's Wager to try to "keep" me.

Originally posted by Digi
Well I did say "most." I still don't think it motivates most Christians, though I understand that your experience differs from mine, and that it will necessarily influence our perceptions. Instead of hellish accusations, I got a lot of "If there isn't a God, what's the point?" and "Do you feel an emptiness?" type of questions. More an appeal to emotions of belonging rather than fear. No one actually tried to guilt or fear me back into the religion, though I did encounter at least one twist on Pascal's Wager to try to "keep" me.

Ya, I was raised as a Baptist. That should explain a lot. 😄

i think almost all christians go through a state of staying with the pack because of fear. i mean, when you're a little kid, you have the mental vision of god being a really big grandpa in the sky who wears white and has long curly hair and he's always smiling and he's always loving you and watching over you.

but then those kids grow up and learn some of the more distasteful bible stories that lay in the old testament. wow, god the grandpa would demolish whole cities? that's not very fair. this is probably pre-puberty for a kid who "grew up" in the church and they start developing their own opinions. it's still fun to go to sunday school and church related activities, but they're encouraged to read their bibles and so discover the rape of dinah and lot throwing his daughters to the streets so they could be sacrificed for the sake of angels.

now it depends on denomination. conservatives will be told it's all god's plan, god wanted it to happen. when relatives die, these [now teenagers] that god wanted to have whomever up with him, so don't worry for whomever. of course they're not going to hell, nobody in our circle goes to hell. these people will grow up, have questions about spirituality, and be told god's taking care of it, it's okay, don't worry, just pray, you don't need to know the answer because god does.

people in a more liberal denomination will ask questions, and be encouraged to think about the answers. their road won't be as clear. they'll probably have to think about tough stuff and form their own opinions. and so here... maybe a college aged kid is thinking that he doesn't really believe what he grew up believing, but oh jeeez, maybe he just better stick with it because he doesn't want to go to hell, he doesn't want to have a fireball thrown at him, he doesn't want to be sacrificed to evil [as god has shown that good people aren't safe from bad things.]

then it's fear of being out of the group of christians. what your religion is is a huge identifier. and if you leave your identity, you're going to have to make a new one. that change is scary, and maybe you have your christian identity ready to slip back into because you don't like telling people you're whatever.

at that point, you either say "what the hell so i have questions, but i'm willing to stay for faith" or you say "what the hell, i don't want anything bad to happen, so i'll stay for the protection," or you might even say, "this whole idea/doctrine... i just don't believe it anymore. i'm agnostic right now. [or, i like the ideas in this religion, maybe i should try that for a while.]

eventually something happens and you settle into a pattern, even if your pattern is stealing ideas off of all religions and sticking them together for your own custom made religion.

*and done*

Some interesting points sirius, especially about the cycle that a lot of people go through to remain in their religion. What I found was that a lot of people are so insulated, not in what they're exposed to (we have the internet, after all) but in how they're challenged (or not challenged, as it may be) and so their "spiritual crises" amount to emotional turmoil that is solved through prayer or family. That's all well and good, but it doesn't equate to critical thinking about one's beliefs.

I still don't believe it comes back to fear too often. Upbringing, convenience, or an actual contentedness with the religion, are far, far bigger roles. Imo, at least.

I guess I was just lucky though. People do fear change, and leaving a religion can be scary for a number of reasons. I was old enough to enjoy the opposition, rather than be afraid of it. Not that I wished for it, mind you, but there was a certain confidence in being able to confront people head-on about it, since I do know "Christians" who aren't Christians, but haven't come out so as to avoid the sh*tstorm from their family and/or community. But that's a fear of people and of losing relationships, not a strictly religious I-might-go-to-hell fear.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You don’t really believe all of the things they tell you about Christianity, but you don’t want to be singled out and made fun of.

I have yet to have met any false Christians or religious followers. Atheism is accepted greatly where I live.

I can't see how a non-believer or anyone worries about being singled out and follow Christianity out of peer pressure as I believe you are probably explaining. Made fun of? What is this, kindergarten? In the real world, you will see a bunch of things you will just have to ignore most of the time.

Of course, if this is true in your experiences, I must say those Christians/religious followers can shove their own methods of getting people to follow a religion up their asses and just continue with their own practices on their own as it is all based on faith and faith is up to each and every individual.

I'm a catholic because I was raised one, and I follow it for the moral good.

This topic kind of reminded me of this humorous article (great site btw):

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/badmum.html

Originally posted by JacopeX
I have yet to have met any false Christians or religious followers. Atheism is accepted greatly where I live.

I can't see how a non-believer or anyone worries about being singled out and follow Christianity out of peer pressure as I believe you are probably explaining. Made fun of? What is this, kindergarten? In the real world, you will see a bunch of things you will just have to ignore most of the time.

Then you're lucky. So was I, relatively speaking, though I did have multiple attempts at re-conversion, and not all of them were particularly gentile. Pressure from family and community can be downright overwhelming for many people. To pretend otherwise is a lie. Are there plenty of tolerant people, communities, etc.? Absolutely. And I'd be wildly guessing at percentages for either environment, but both exist.

digi - yeah, insulation is definitely a big issue. with conservatives, especially elementary school aged, their parents watch out for the type of people that hang around their new kids. i had two friends like this - one had a mother who, from fourth grade till freshman year, home-schooled each of her four daughters. one of the daughters being a good friend of mine, i just couldn't understand this. [i grew up in a presbyterian family, and grew up going to church] when she came back into public school, she was able to explain that her parents knew that these years were when girls started to grow their gossip claws and experiment with more subtle ways of making fun of people. which i experienced - two of my 'best friends' started writing notes about me, nasty things that they probably heard from their parents and didn't even know what it meant, except it was derogatory. but guess what : because i experienced that i developed a touch skin.
i had another good friend who went to evangi school until grade five, and i happened to know her from some birthday party i went to. her parents wanted her to spend her young childhood surrounded by 'true christians' so she would have a stronger foundation to be able to stand up to bullies. [and also, i noticed, she was very good at prosleytizing, even at twelve.

these two people are still in their churches, working there for pay and as a volunteer, both good with kids from managing sunday school as soon as they outgrew it.

but me... well, i had a lot of medical trauma from the age of thirteen to about eighteen, and then experienced post traumatic stress disorder and psychological abuse from both parents. i started to swear [omg!] and be irreverent. i found a friend who thought like i did, and they didn't go to church. i went to college and experienced SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.

and now i'm a little more than agnostic, like, i love the idea of karma and reincarnation and the presbyterian work ethic [you reap what you sow] and just ideas from everywhere.

i am more happy, i think, with myself, than any of my friends, except for the one i met that came from a different background. i've got no fear about christianity. if there's a god, i figure that it's got to be something worldwide, something that wouldn't make a person who never got to hear "the word" because of circumstances go to hell. [of course, i've got opinions up the wazoo, and practically none of them toe the christian party line, but i'll stop here.] my post above [and this one too] speaks for kids who "grew up" in the church, and their possible paths. it was hard to leave, but i did. and now i'm completely satisfied and glad i did.

Originally posted by RoguePw25
No I'm not afraid of going to hell, because I know that I'm not. And it's about about being in the "right" church. As long as you believe in your heart that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9) and therefore, there is not need to worry. You're saved.

So Mother Thersa burns in hell, unsaved, despite all the good work...? (She was a proven athetist, in the end, after all. http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007...s-of-faith.html)

If Jesus Christ rose from the dead, then he uuummmmm... wasnt dead. (Dead generally meaning the ultimate end of your life.)

And therefore God would NOT have sacrificed his own son.

Also, a rightly made point these days, is that Lazarus and the whole dead rising in cities thing cheapens Christ's "Resurrection" myth.

Do you really think that 9/11 hijackers are in Heaven now, with all those virgins?

(Cause the solipsism in their beliefs mirrors such "I believe in Jesus so I'm saved" statements.)

If what we believed had any actual effect on life, then try some LSD, wait for the feeling/belief/deep conviction that you can fly to set in, then test it by jumping off a 3 ft wall.

My money says, that you would in fact just land on floor. 🙂

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth

If Jesus Christ rose from the dead, then he uuummmmm... wasnt dead. (Dead generally meaning the ultimate end of your life.

Oh crap, you've broken tautology.

Most people call themselves that only because they know no other way or why else 'to' call themsevles christians. As for any other reason...I would say most are what they are because they feel a need to belong to something greater than themselves...ah but then again, who knows why. I call myself that by dint of birth and baptism.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
So Mother Thersa burns in hell, unsaved, despite all the good work...? (She was a proven athetist, in the end, after all. http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007...s-of-faith.html)

http://www.rationalistinternational.net/article/20031020_en.htm

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

You don’t really believe all of the things they tell you about Christianity, but you don’t want to be singled out and made fun of.

It is true, their are aspects of the Bible that I label difficult to understand, but not the Christian message and its founder Jesus Christ. I can speak openly with friends and family about such things (without fear of being exiled and/or branded). People that I associate with have the mentality to strive at everything they do, and that includes personal relationships.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

Also it’s kind of cool to be a Christian cause all of your friends are Christian, but deep down inside, you know that all of this can’t be true.

I have never in my entire life met such a person. I have met persons with doubt, but they prayed, studied and communicated openly with others to help find a solution to their question/concern. In the end, their faith was confirmed and strengthened.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

However, you dear not think about it, because what if you were wrong, you don’t want to be possessed by a demon or burn for eternity in hell.

Biblical Christians do not monopolize their lives pondering over demon possession and hell. On the contrary, they build their lives around Christ Jesus, and they try to immolate Him. They do this out of love, not fear.

Originally posted by ushomefree
It is true, their are aspects of the Bible that I label difficult to understand, but not the Christian message and its founder Jesus Christ. I can speak openly with friends and family about such things (without fear of being exiled and/or branded). People that I associate with have the mentality to strive at everything they do, and that includes personal relationships.

I have never in my entire life met such a person. I have met persons with doubt, but they prayed, studied and communicated openly with others to help find a solution to their question/concern. In the end, their faith was confirmed and strengthened.

Biblical Christians do not monopolize their lives pondering over demon possession and hell. On the contrary, they build their lives around Christ Jesus, and they try to immolate Him. They do this out of love, not fear.

So, there is no hell?

If what you say is true, then there is no reason to teach children about hell. As soon as you do, you use fear to manipulate the child into becoming a Christian.

Even the word "saved" has a connotation of danger.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

So, there is no hell?

If what you say is true, then there is no reason to teach children about hell. As soon as you do, you use fear to manipulate the child into becoming a Christian.

Hell is taught just the same as bankruptcy during economic courses. Although it's not the core of the message, it's important to understand. It puts things into perspective. You act as if children, even adults, are locked into an insane asylum and brainwashed into becoming Christian with repetitive verses about hell.

People become Christian because they are moved by Christ, not the chance of vacationing in hell for eternity. Hell does not have the power to captivate people, but Jesus' love for His creation does. I pray, that someday you will understand.

Hell does exist; it is not a bunsen burner, however. Hell is NOT a place of "physical" anguish, but of "spiritual" anguish. In hell everything is lost, even freedom.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Hell is taught just the same as bankruptcy during economic courses. Although it's not the core of the message, it's important to understand. It puts things into perspective. You act as if children, even adults, are locked into an insane asylum and brainwashed into becoming Christian with repetitive verses about hell.

People become Christian because they are moved by Christ, not the chance of vacationing in hell for eternity. Hell does not have the power to captivate people, but Jesus' love for His creation does. I pray, that someday you will understand.

Hell does exist; it is not a bunsen burner, however. Hell is NOT a place of "physical" anguish, but of "spiritual" anguish. In hell everything is lost, even freedom.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Westboro Baptist Church

Hell is Westboro Baptist or is this a question about if they go there?

King Kandy-

Have you ever met a Christian man, woman or child? If so, you'd never associate them with members of the Westboro Baptist Church.