Originally posted by ushomefree
This is a loaded question; let me explain. Biblical Christians are "born again." A Christian, having been blessed with the Holy Spirit, is eternally Christ's. In other words, people who profess to be Christian -- but loose their faith -- were never Christian to begin with. They may have had the best intentions, but they put faith in their works, not Christ's. They completely missed the point, and they were doomed to fail from the beginning. If this does not make sense, please let me know. I'll explain.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
peejayd my friend, the topic is fear, and how the Christian religion uses fear to keep people as Christians.
* well, re: topic, the Christian doctrine in the Bible does not use fear... who uses fear are those so-called "christian" groups who twist the Scriptures to gain more members... and the more members they have, the more money they will have... 😉
Originally posted by peejayd
* well, re: topic, the Christian doctrine in the Bible does not use fear... who uses fear are those so-called "christian" groups who twist the Scriptures to gain more members... and the more members they have, the more money they will have... 😉
So, if you left to become a different religion, you would not end up being condemned by god on judgment day, and cast into the lake of fire?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you do not teach children about hell? You also, do not tell them that if they do not become saved, they will go to hell?
* of course i do, because hell is written in the Bible... you see, there is what you call "the law of liberty/freedom" specified in the New Testament... instead of instilling fear, i urge otherwise like teaching to edify love, faith, hope and to do good works to go to heaven...
If we're making a list: I was a Christian as a kid because all the other children would talk about what they did on Sundays and got my parents to send me to Sunday school. I stayed for a long time because I was so fascinated by the stories (we were usually told the story and asked what it meant) and because I fall into habits very easily.
In retrospect I suppose my motivation for becoming Christian and becoming an atheist (though I find that a poor label) were very similar, interest in the world around. When Christianity ceased to provide the sorts of questions and answers that interested me I phased it out of my life in favor of a scientific view. Even there I have to give credit to my grandfather who didn't really do actively do anything but simply be an atheist which certainly affected my world view.
Of course some people might argue that I was never really religious.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If we're making a list: I was a Christian as a kid because all the other children would talk about what they did on Sundays and got my parents to send me to Sunday school. I stayed for a long time because I was so fascinated by the stories (we were usually told the story and asked what it meant) and because I fall into habits very easily.In retrospect I suppose my motivation for becoming Christian and becoming an atheist (though I find that a poor label) were very similar, interest in the world around. When Christianity ceased to provide the sorts of questions and answers that interested me I phased it out of my life in favor of a scientific view. Even there I have to give credit to my grandfather who didn't really do actively do anything but simply be an atheist which certainly affected my world view.
Of course some people might argue that I was never really religious.
Interesting. Sounds vaguely similar to me. I was always proud of the fact that while I was born and raised Catholic, I didn't blindly accept what was told to me by the church, but thought it critically through to make sure I was in agreement with it. This was all well and good for a long time, but eventually I developed the critical thinking skills to stymie religion, and had to leave. Which seems basically like what happened to you.
In retrospect, I guess I never really considered that a lot of others don't question everything they're told. I suppose I just intuitively rejected the basis of blind faith as the foundation for religious belief in Christianity, even though I wasn't aware of it.
But yeah, atheist is a bad label. Not because it doesn't describe my religion, but because of the stigmas that need to be overcome with it. Too few see it as merely a statement of belief, but attach a worldview and demeanor to it. Sometimes I don't mind using that sterotype to my advantage, but usually I'd rather not upset or distance people with it. I stick with non-theist or free thinker most often.
Originally posted by peejayd
* of course i do, because hell is written in the Bible... you see, there is what you call "the law of liberty/freedom" specified in the New Testament... instead of instilling fear, i urge otherwise like teaching to edify love, faith, hope and to do good works to go to heaven...
So, you teach something as scary as hell to children so they can learn love, faith, hope and to do good works to go to heaven? 😱
There's a word for that... 🤪
BTW Symmetric Chaos, you and Digi are going to burn in hell. 😛
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you teach something as scary as hell to children so they can learn love, faith, hope and to do good works to go to heaven? 😱
* i assume this is a joke, mr.shakyamunison, unless you want me to think you have reading comprehension problems... 🤪
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
* of course i do, because hell is written in the Bible... you see, there is what you call "the law of liberty/freedom" specified in the New Testament... instead of instilling fear, i urge otherwise like teaching to edify love, faith, hope and to do good works to go to heaven...
* i teach them there is a hell, because it is true in the Bible... but i do not emphasize it... i don't teach them to love out of fear from hell, but teach love for them to go to heaven... 😉
Originally posted by peejayd
* i assume this is a joke, mr.shakyamunison, unless you want me to think you have reading comprehension problems... 🤪* i teach them there is a hell, because it is true in the Bible... but i do not emphasize it... i don't teach them to love out of fear from hell, but teach love for them to go to heaven... 😉
Then why not wait? There are serial killers in the world, be we don't tell our children about them until they get older.
Originally posted by peejayd
* so this is about the fear in children? not about us, adults? eh? 🤨
I am talking about the foundation of fear in adult Christians.
They were told that if they are not saved then they will go to hell. This fear leads them to later, when they have children, past this fear of hell on to their children. It is the fear of hell that is the foundation that keeps a lot, not all, Christians in line.
Is this not true that if you are not saved then you will go to hell, or be cast in the lake of fire at the time of judgment? It seems to be a little different from one denomination to the other, but the tactic is the same.
(assuming the bible is true, don't come in and be a douche and say "lul god no exist, dur"😉
The true motivation of jesus christ was to save not to condemn. The idea is we were all going to hell anyway and jesus came and provided a safe alternative, all you have to do (pretty much) is be nice to one another and give him credit.
There are bad christians and good christians. Just because you decide to motivate those under your influence with fear, doesn't mean that that's the motivation of Jesus. Bad Christians have good intentions but miss the mark in method and usually results.
Honestly, what's more discreet and effective, being nice to you and offering you the gift of eternal hope like jesus would have, or threatening someone with a scary ghost story?
While the person threatened with the scary ghost story might appear to have jumped on the bandwagon, he is insincere and probably not a "true christian". Someone willing to *gasp* treat other people nicely for the purpose of attaining the one true light is probably more sincere and more true than anyone motivated by fear.
In other words, while Christians may have poor methods in some instances, and great in other instances, the church is a multitude of conflict, And what one group represents doesn't always represent the will of Jesus Christ.
If a church motivates by fear, it doesn't mean they aren't christians, it just means they've got something wacky mixed up with their theology. It doesn't represent the entire group of Christians, and it most certainly is not what jesus would have wanted.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am talking about the foundation of fear in adult Christians.
They were told that if they are not saved then they will go to hell. This fear leads them to later, when they have children, past this fear of hell on to their children. It is the fear of hell that is the foundation that keeps a lot, not all, Christians in line.
* there is, but not a lot, only due to Scripture misinterpretation... you see, i was a former Catholic, i was baptized a Catholic when i was a baby, meaning, i did not have the opportunity then to decide to choose a religion so i grew up a Catholic... if you consider Catholics as Christians, then i was not a Christian out of fear but by culture or tradition or whatever you call that because my parents are both Catholics and their parents and their parents' parents... but in the Bible, Christians do not baptize infants or children, Christians are baptized when they know how to discern and decide to choose a religion of their own... there are no infants/children baptized in the Bible...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Is this not true that if you are not saved then you will go to hell, or be cast in the lake of fire at the time of judgment? It seems to be a little different from one denomination to the other, but the tactic is the same.
* for starters, faith is a belief you cling on to... just like you have faith on Buddhism... being a Christian is an ongoing process, it's not because you are baptized, you are automatically a Christian... Christians are followers of the doctrines/words, Christ said:
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;"
John 8:31
* hell is not a major motivation of fear... there is heaven as an inspiration, and there is a goal: to be a true disciple of Christ... if someone claims to be a Christian who became a "christian" out of fear, he's fake in my book... 😉