Reasons Why God "can" Not Exist And Why All Relegions Are Inherently Flawed

well i wrote this out in another thread n thought it was worthy of its own. here are some of the BASIC reasons why any relegion with an omnipotent god can not be right and are flawed at the very bases{the moral wrongs in the lesser details are not even important}. this is not anti relegious bashing, just the truth from my prespective which can not be denied, and has not been denied yet, i have listened to many arguments against my argument but none have been able to convince me that mine has any flaws or is not true{n im bein totally unbiased here} im just posting this so that every1 who follows organised relegion can see this and if possible give LOGICAL counterarguments{which i dont think its possible to give but i might be wrong}.

there are many problems with the very CONCEPTS of omnipotence/omniscience. if god is omnipotent than he is self sustaining, he neither needs nor wants. but then why would an omnipotent god need OR want to create the world/satan/angels or anythin let alone want people to pray to him. all will is in one way or another related to desire, if u will sumthing to happen or make it happen, its because u either WANT or NEED that thing to happen for whatever reason, but if god was all that there was omnipotent, he would not desire anything else and there would be no reason to create anythin else, even if sum1 does sumthin just for the heck of it, theres still desire behond it n and omnipotent god SHOULD be beyond any desire because there is nuthin MORE than himself, he is all. also the concept of omnipotence is flawed, if a god is all powerful that means that he can do ANYTHING, but anything also includes him being able to create another omnipotent god{for he can do ANYTHING} but if another omnipotent god exists, the very concept of all powerful omnipotence goes down the drain as it is only for ONE not two, secondly an omnipotent god COULD create an even more powerful being than himself{as he is omnipotent} and that also destroyes the concept. another thing an omnipotent god cud also kill himself if he wanted {as he is all powerful} but that too would destroy the concept and above all if he CANT or wont do these things than THAT TOO denies the concept of omnipotence as he would then not be ALL POWERFUL.
theres also a problem with omniscience{the ability to see and know all, past/present/future ad anythin and everythin else, material/spiritual and beyond. an omniscient god would KNOW what lied in his future n what actions he WOULD take but if that was true than the omniscient god would be RESTRICTED to doing only those things which would deny the concept of omnipotence of god. also people say that god has a choice to do whatever he wants n he is not limited{to say that his omniscince is like the thoughts of a human who knows what he is gonna do in the future ashe KNOWS himself, this argument is given to truy n validate god's omnipotence with his omniscience} but if that were true than the prospect of god NOT being SURE about the future would come up as he COULD do anything he wanted, but THAT defies his other aspect OMNISCIENCE, god WOULD know what decisions he was going to make if he truly was omniscient and therefore put limits upon himself which would destroy his omnipotence in any way.

lastly if god is omniscient than man does not have a free will as god knows the path he will choose even IF any choice to the human is given, god KNOWS what the human will do and the human wont do anything other than what god knows, this means that the human is not in control of himself even if he thinks he is and his every single actions is predestined, why ten would god punish any1 n why then is it in almost every relegion that free will exists? lastly if god is all powerful than the world is ALSO a part of god with everythin in it, because nuthing OTHER than god can exist because even though it might be much weaker, anythin OTHER than god would nullify his omnipotence.

these {yea i know they are borin n sumwhat cumbersome to go through} are some of the main reasons i dont believe in ANY relegion with an omnipotent god in it n im 100% sure that no OMNIPOTENT/OMNISCIENT god exists. just hope it opens the eyes of others. the other issues dont even matter when the basic concept behind god is 100% false.

yup ive gone on for too long, hope sum1 goes to the trouble of readin this.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
well i wrote this out in another thread n thought it was worthy of its own. here are some of the BASIC reasons why any relegion with an omnipotent god can not be right and are flawed at the very bases{the moral wrongs in the lesser details are not even important}. this is not anti relegious bashing, just the truth from my prespective which can not be denied, and has not been denied yet, i have listened to many arguments against my argument but none have been able to convince me that mine has any flaws or is not true{n im bein totally unbiased here} im just posting this so that every1 who follows organised relegion can see this and if possible give LOGICAL counterarguments{which i dont think its possible to give but i might be wrong}.

there are many problems with the very CONCEPTS of omnipotence/omniscience. if god is omnipotent than he is self sustaining, he neither needs nor wants. but then why would an omnipotent god need OR want to create the world/satan/angels or anythin let alone want people to pray to him. all will is in one way or another related to desire, if u will sumthing to happen or make it happen, its because u either WANT or NEED that thing to happen for whatever reason, but if god was all that there was omnipotent, he would not desire anything else and there would be no reason to create anythin else, even if sum1 does sumthin just for the heck of it, theres still desire behond it n and omnipotent god SHOULD be beyond any desire because there is nuthin MORE than himself, he is all. also the concept of omnipotence is flawed, if a god is all powerful that means that he can do ANYTHING, but anything also includes him being able to create another omnipotent god{for he can do ANYTHING} but if another omnipotent god exists, the very concept of all powerful omnipotence goes down the drain as it is only for ONE not two, secondly an omnipotent god COULD create an even more powerful being than himself{as he is omnipotent} and that also destroyes the concept. another thing an omnipotent god cud also kill himself if he wanted {as he is all powerful} but that too would destroy the concept and above all if he CANT or wont do these things than THAT TOO denies the concept of omnipotence as he would then not be ALL POWERFUL.
theres also a problem with omniscience{the ability to see and know all, past/present/future ad anythin and everythin else, material/spiritual and beyond. an omniscient god would KNOW what lied in his future n what actions he WOULD take but if that was true than the omniscient god would be RESTRICTED to doing only those things which would deny the concept of omnipotence of god. also people say that god has a choice to do whatever he wants n he is not limited{to say that his omniscince is like the thoughts of a human who knows what he is gonna do in the future ashe KNOWS himself, this argument is given to truy n validate god's omnipotence with his omniscience} but if that were true than the prospect of god NOT being SURE about the future would come up as he COULD do anything he wanted, but THAT defies his other aspect OMNISCIENCE, god WOULD know what decisions he was going to make if he truly was omniscient and therefore put limits upon himself which would destroy his omnipotence in any way.

lastly if god is omniscient than man does not have a free will as god knows the path he will choose even IF any choice to the human is given, god KNOWS what the human will do and the human wont do anything other than what god knows, this means that the human is not in control of himself even if he thinks he is and his every single actions is predestined, why ten would god punish any1 n why then is it in almost every relegion that free will exists? lastly if god is all powerful than the world is ALSO a part of god with everythin in it, because nuthing OTHER than god can exist because even though it might be much weaker, anythin OTHER than god would nullify his omnipotence.

these {yea i know they are borin n sumwhat cumbersome to go through} are some of the main reasons i dont believe in ANY relegion with an omnipotent god in it n im 100% sure that no OMNIPOTENT/OMNISCIENT god exists. just hope it opens the eyes of others. the other issues dont even matter when the basic concept behind god is 100% false.

yup ive gone on for too long, hope sum1 goes to the trouble of readin this.

I took the trouble and 'twas no trouble 'tall.
I agree with your reasoning, per se, on many counts. But I disagree with the basic (unspoken) premise that the existence/nonexistence of God is something which can be resolved through reasoning. IMO, since our Minds are not omnipotent, how can human reasoning possibly come to some definitive conclusion regarding omnipotence? What one ends up with is paradox.

IMO, much of the confusion/disappointment/hostility apparent in many of these God threads stems from "God" being considered in the limited, biblical, religionistic sense. God is put through the meat-grinder of words and ideas, and you end up with the palest shadow - if not a bonafide corruption - of the actual experience which, ultimately, is ineffable.

Originally posted by Mindship
I took the trouble and 'twas no trouble 'tall.
I agree with your reasoning, per se, on many counts. But I disagree with the basic (unspoken) premise that the existence/nonexistence of God is something which can be resolved through reasoning. IMO, since our Minds are not omnipotent, how can human reasoning possibly come to some definitive conclusion regarding omnipotence? What one ends up with is paradox.

IMO, much of the confusion/disappointment/hostility apparent in many of these God threads stems from "God" being considered in the limited, biblical, religionistic sense. God is put through the meat-grinder of words and ideas, and you end up with the palest shadow - if not a bonafide corruption - of the actual experience which, ultimately, is ineffable.

clapping

You wrote all of that out to try to counter me in another thread and got the same result here...

Once again... God doesn't play by the rules he created for us...(Logic, reasoning, etc....)

Definition issue.

Omnipotent means you can do anything that can be done, not anything that can be imagined.

Omniscient means you know everything that can be known, not every single thing you can think of.

Both terms refer to the maximum possible level of either power or knowledge; that is the 'all' that they deal with.

An Omnipotent being, therefore, cannot do something that it is literally impossible to do. Creating another being like yorurself may be one of those things.

And so on...

I liked that omnipotence paradox thing that was posted (can't remember which thread) about God creating a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it !!! hope that makes sense 🙂

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
I liked that omnipotence paradox thing that was posted (can't remember which thread) about God creating a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it !!! hope that makes sense 🙂

If you get rid of the creation part it is no a paradox, for God is a rock that he can't lift. 😆

There is no point of creation, the universe and God have always been and always will be. Stop thinking about time as if it was a river, time is space.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
well i wrote this out in another thread n thought it was worthy of its own. here are some of the BASIC reasons why any relegion with an omnipotent god can not be right and are flawed at the very bases{the moral wrongs in the lesser details are not even important}. this is not anti relegious bashing, just the truth from my prespective which can not be denied, and has not been denied yet, i have listened to many arguments against my argument but none have been able to convince me that mine has any flaws or is not true{n im bein totally unbiased here} im just posting this so that every1 who follows organised relegion can see this and if possible give LOGICAL counterarguments{which i dont think its possible to give but i might be wrong}.

there are many problems with the very CONCEPTS of omnipotence/omniscience. if god is omnipotent than he is self sustaining, he neither needs nor wants. but then why would an omnipotent god need OR want to create the world/satan/angels or anythin let alone want people to pray to him. all will is in one way or another related to desire, if u will sumthing to happen or make it happen, its because u either WANT or NEED that thing to happen for whatever reason, but if god was all that there was omnipotent, he would not desire anything else and there would be no reason to create anythin else, even if sum1 does sumthin just for the heck of it, theres still desire behond it n and omnipotent god SHOULD be beyond any desire because there is nuthin MORE than himself, he is all. also the concept of omnipotence is flawed, if a god is all powerful that means that he can do ANYTHING, but anything also includes him being able to create another omnipotent god{for he can do ANYTHING} but if another omnipotent god exists, the very concept of all powerful omnipotence goes down the drain as it is only for ONE not two, secondly an omnipotent god COULD create an even more powerful being than himself{as he is omnipotent} and that also destroyes the concept. another thing an omnipotent god cud also kill himself if he wanted {as he is all powerful} but that too would destroy the concept and above all if he CANT or wont do these things than THAT TOO denies the concept of omnipotence as he would then not be ALL POWERFUL.
theres also a problem with omniscience{the ability to see and know all, past/present/future ad anythin and everythin else, material/spiritual and beyond. an omniscient god would KNOW what lied in his future n what actions he WOULD take but if that was true than the omniscient god would be RESTRICTED to doing only those things which would deny the concept of omnipotence of god. also people say that god has a choice to do whatever he wants n he is not limited{to say that his omniscince is like the thoughts of a human who knows what he is gonna do in the future ashe KNOWS himself, this argument is given to truy n validate god's omnipotence with his omniscience} but if that were true than the prospect of god NOT being SURE about the future would come up as he COULD do anything he wanted, but THAT defies his other aspect OMNISCIENCE, god WOULD know what decisions he was going to make if he truly was omniscient and therefore put limits upon himself which would destroy his omnipotence in any way.

lastly if god is omniscient than man does not have a free will as god knows the path he will choose even IF any choice to the human is given, god KNOWS what the human will do and the human wont do anything other than what god knows, this means that the human is not in control of himself even if he thinks he is and his every single actions is predestined, why ten would god punish any1 n why then is it in almost every relegion that free will exists? lastly if god is all powerful than the world is ALSO a part of god with everythin in it, because nuthing OTHER than god can exist because even though it might be much weaker, anythin OTHER than god would nullify his omnipotence.

these {yea i know they are borin n sumwhat cumbersome to go through} are some of the main reasons i dont believe in ANY relegion with an omnipotent god in it n im 100% sure that no OMNIPOTENT/OMNISCIENT god exists. just hope it opens the eyes of others. the other issues dont even matter when the basic concept behind god is 100% false.

yup ive gone on for too long, hope sum1 goes to the trouble of readin this.

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
I liked that omnipotence paradox thing that was posted (can't remember which thread) about God creating a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it !!! hope that makes sense 🙂

What your referring to is a paradox that goes;

Could god create a Rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?

Well the problem with this (in my eyes) is that god lives outside of our universe... He could create a huge rock... But he wouldn't be effected by the law of gravity... He is immune to all laws/logic/reasoning... His will (what ever he wants) be done... *if god wanted to create a square circle he could... Or if god wanted to create a new colour, No problem...*

If god limited himself to the laws of gravity, then he possibly couldn't lift it...

But then god isn't Omnipotent anymore as he is confided by a rule.. That would be in direct conflict with being all powerful.... so then he wouldn't be using his full powers...

Thats my take on it...!! Hope someone understands me..🙂

Originally posted by leonheartmm
well i wrote this out in another thread n thought it was worthy of its own. here are some of the BASIC reasons why any relegion with an omnipotent god can not be right and are flawed at the very bases{the moral wrongs in the lesser details are not even important}. this is not anti relegious bashing, just the truth from my prespective which can not be denied, and has not been denied yet, i have listened to many arguments against my argument but none have been able to convince me that mine has any flaws or is not true{n im bein totally unbiased here} im just posting this so that every1 who follows organised relegion can see this and if possible give LOGICAL counterarguments{which i dont think its possible to give but i might be wrong}.

there are many problems with the very CONCEPTS of omnipotence/omniscience. if god is omnipotent than he is self sustaining, he neither needs nor wants. but then why would an omnipotent god need OR want to create the world/satan/angels or anythin let alone want people to pray to him. all will is in one way or another related to desire, if u will sumthing to happen or make it happen, its because u either WANT or NEED that thing to happen for whatever reason, but if god was all that there was omnipotent, he would not desire anything else and there would be no reason to create anythin else, even if sum1 does sumthin just for the heck of it, theres still desire behond it n and omnipotent god SHOULD be beyond any desire because there is nuthin MORE than himself, he is all. also the concept of omnipotence is flawed, if a god is all powerful that means that he can do ANYTHING, but anything also includes him being able to create another omnipotent god{for he can do ANYTHING} but if another omnipotent god exists, the very concept of all powerful omnipotence goes down the drain as it is only for ONE not two, secondly an omnipotent god COULD create an even more powerful being than himself{as he is omnipotent} and that also destroyes the concept. another thing an omnipotent god cud also kill himself if he wanted {as he is all powerful} but that too would destroy the concept and above all if he CANT or wont do these things than THAT TOO denies the concept of omnipotence as he would then not be ALL POWERFUL.
theres also a problem with omniscience{the ability to see and know all, past/present/future ad anythin and everythin else, material/spiritual and beyond. an omniscient god would KNOW what lied in his future n what actions he WOULD take but if that was true than the omniscient god would be RESTRICTED to doing only those things which would deny the concept of omnipotence of god. also people say that god has a choice to do whatever he wants n he is not limited{to say that his omniscince is like the thoughts of a human who knows what he is gonna do in the future ashe KNOWS himself, this argument is given to truy n validate god's omnipotence with his omniscience} but if that were true than the prospect of god NOT being SURE about the future would come up as he COULD do anything he wanted, but THAT defies his other aspect OMNISCIENCE, god WOULD know what decisions he was going to make if he truly was omniscient and therefore put limits upon himself which would destroy his omnipotence in any way.

lastly if god is omniscient than man does not have a free will as god knows the path he will choose even IF any choice to the human is given, god KNOWS what the human will do and the human wont do anything other than what god knows, this means that the human is not in control of himself even if he thinks he is and his every single actions is predestined, why ten would god punish any1 n why then is it in almost every relegion that free will exists? lastly if god is all powerful than the world is ALSO a part of god with everythin in it, because nuthing OTHER than god can exist because even though it might be much weaker, anythin OTHER than god would nullify his omnipotence.

these {yea i know they are borin n sumwhat cumbersome to go through} are some of the main reasons i dont believe in ANY relegion with an omnipotent god in it n im 100% sure that no OMNIPOTENT/OMNISCIENT god exists. just hope it opens the eyes of others. the other issues dont even matter when the basic concept behind god is 100% false.

yup ive gone on for too long, hope sum1 goes to the trouble of readin this.

We can't proove that there is indeed a Noah's ark under that mountain, but people have found wood that is bet to be 5000 years old, which would've put it around that time. I know what you're all thinking "So what, its wood." right? Well thats not the whole point of the noahs ark story.

Let me put it this way. Science has no place in religion, what-so-ever. This coming from a person that has no religion of his own, so i could just be speaking out of my arse. But i think i have made my point. Science doesn't need to be in religion because the scince portion of religion would want to find out the maximum velocity that jesus could run at, or how much the buddah weighed. There is no way to proove the existance of a god, or disproove it. So whats the point?

I understand (i think)wallbash

You won't disprove all religion through logical arguments involving omnipotence. Not Buddhism, certainly. Probably not Shinto.

Originally posted by DanieLs_4_Ever
Well first of all, I am NOT going to read all of that to begin with. Second of all, this may come off as harsh but WHY THE HELL DO YOU CARE? You seem like you are trying to force us "NOT" to believe in God. I'll give you a piece of advice, I (and everyone else who choose to) believe in God and obviously YOU dont. We already have enough threads about you non-believers so quit making NEW ones just to start a rile because it's stupid and you are just going to cause me to fuss even more.

I don't think he is doing that at all. He seems to merely be expressing his opinion. It seems that you don't like your faith being questioned. 🙄

You cant disprove religions because they are myths that have no concrete support to begin with. Its like me saying that purple fish people exist somewhere in the universe...cant be proved or disproved.

There is an incongruity between existence of free will and the existence of an omniscient infallible God.

it seems that no1 can deny it, the best counterargument any1 has given is that god is simply beyond my or any1 else's logic based arguments{which i dont see as a reasonable responce}. the wrest are just oppinions without reasonable evidence.

Dude, just define god the way you want and be done. Then everyone else can bash yours. Sheesh.

In much the same way you can't give a figure to infinity, you can't define god by words.. you can give it a name.. But you can't give a value...

In much the same way you could never beat god at any argument.. As he could simply change...

your point is that the definition of Omnipotent means he has a value attached to him, and that logically he must meet the criteria... God is held by no rules or such logic...

Think of it this way... You want to argue that any process can be broken down into its actions. so "A human will eat cause they are hungry"
God doesn't act that way...
He is beyond our logic, so you can never use a logical point to prove/deny his existence...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
In much the same way you can't give a figure to infinity, you can't define god by words.. you can give it a name.. But you can't give a value...

In much the same way you could never beat god at any argument.. As he could simply change...

your point is that the definition of Omnipotent means he has a value attached to him, and that logically he must meet the criteria... God is held by no rules or such logic...

Think of it this way... You want to argue that any process can be broken down into its actions. so "A human will eat cause they are hungry"
God doesn't act that way...
He is beyond our logic, so you can never use a logical point to prove/deny his existence...

well thats really GREAT isnt it. seeing as all argments are based on logic and since he is beyond logic, therefore no logical thinking and hence NO argument can be used to challenge or question his existance. do u know how RIDICULOUS that sounds? i cud just as well say that everything i say is right and i say that every1 having a point of view other than me is wrong. i also say that my mind is infinitely beyond all concepts and no opposing arguments can be made to challange my statement as im beyond logic and every who does so is wrong. in so doing i eliminate every possible argument any1 cud ever make against me.............hmm, i wonder why you wudnt believe THAT?

Mind (logical/symbolic reasoning) can not prove/disprove the existence of spirit, anymore than the physical senses can prove/disprove the existence of logical/symbolic reasoning.

For example: both a person and a mouse can see the mathematical symbols in a calculus text, but only the person can mentally "see" the higher level of meaning behind the symbols. The mouse will never "see" that higher level.

If it helps, use neutral terms: As Level I can not grasp Level II, Level II can not grasp Level III.

Or think of it this way: something of 2-dimensions can not adequately describe a 3 (or higher)-dimensional entity. If you see a circular shadow, how do you know if it represents a sphere, a cone or a cylinder? The only way to know is to directly perceive the 3-dimentional entity.

Mind is 2D trying to resolve a 3D entity. All it's gonna get is shadow. Everything past that is 2D guesswork.