Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Since France and England were allies, wouldn't that kinda hurt a peace between Germany and England, homes?
As if that ever really has anything to do with it. Germany and Russia were allies, that didn't work out. One of the first things we did after France fell was to sink the French fleet, killing a heck of a lot of Frenchmen.
It's about national interest, not who you said your friends were.
Because Debs didn't mention it.doesnt change the fact that they was a vital factor in the war
the impression that Japan in 1937, began a campaign to conquer Chinathat was the second sino-japanese war. Japan conquered Manchuria in 1931
One of the lesser known facts about the Nazis, is that they had spent years establishing baby farmslesser facts? man they showed these baby farms as Aryan propaganda in theaters all around before the break out of the war.
Also, the Nazi regime would have had no problem maintaining an empire on mainland Europe.the problem they would face was the resistance poundering attacks in what we now would call terrorist attacks.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
As if that ever really has anything to do with it. Germany and Russia were allies, that didn't work out. One of the first things we did after France fell was to sink the French fleet, killing a heck of a lot of Frenchmen.It's about national interest, not who you said your friends were.
Yo se pero, England and France had been homies for a long time, ese. In WWI they had eachother's backs, where Russia and Germany were gassing the hell out of eachother.
England/France and Russia/Germany have completely different relationships, homes.
Should it have? No. Because despite Hitler's desire for a peace treaty, I think he would have still made gestures towards power over the British. It's no secret that there were Nazi sympathizers in teh British government. However, I believe that these supporters, in time, would have become more and more influenced by Berlin and Britiain would have ended up as little more than an english speaking Italy.
There's no arguing if peace was wanted by those British members of parliament or the Germans. But, how the Germans would have acted, covertly, after that peace had been reached is questionable.
Yet within living memory before 1914 we had been at war with France, and historically France has always been England's primary enemy.
France and England were only together in WWI because of Belgium; they were not actually enamoured of helping each other. Ditto in WWII for Poland. All alliances were those of convenience, not for any other reason- just as Russia/Germany was.
As soon as it was no longer expedient to shackle up with France we didn't think twice about annhilating their fleet- not something you do to an ally.
This is the point- it is ALL about self-interest, and it is in that spirit that the question about making a deal with Germany at this point is asked, because it seems almost certain that it would have been much etter for the UK.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Should it have? No. Because despite Hitler's desire for a peace treaty, I think he would have still made gestures towards power over the British. It's no secret that there were Nazi sympathizers in teh British government. However, I believe that these supporters, in time, would have become more and more influenced by Berlin and Britiain would have ended up as little more than an english speaking Italy.There's no arguing if peace was wanted by those British members of parliament or the Germans. But, how the Germans would have acted, covertly, after that peace had been reached is questionable.
Very few historians would agree that the UK should not have done it on practical grounds.
The argument to not have done so can only be moral.
Re: If the War stopped in 1940
Originally posted by debbiejo
I'm thinking again...Ah oh......If Hitler had stopped the war at the end of 1940, fascism would have controlled all of mainland Europe. He could have made peace with England and isolated it, and simply left the Russians alone. He could have done a trade deal with America...cause they usually follow the money trail. I doubt if America would have attempted to liberate Europe if trade and a modicum of freedom had be restored. Europe might still have been fascist today. ..Ironically, it was the march to Moscow just as Napoleon did that fell Hitler...What a different world it would be today if the war ended in 1940. Interesting to speculate about.
Any thoughts?
Hmmm... I never thought about this.... Don´t tell Hitler that.
Originally posted by finti
doesnt change the fact that they was a vital factor in the war
lol, doesn't change my answer though.
Originally posted by finti
lesser facts? man they showed these baby farms as Aryan propaganda in theaters all around before the break out of the war.
And if I thought there were many posters here who had been around before the war to see those movies, I would not have used the term 'lesser know'. As it is, I don't think a lot of people posting here are familiar with that fact. I've spent a long time studying WWII, so I say lesser known because I don't know how many here have as well.
Originally posted by finti
the problem they would face was the resistance poundering attacks in what we now would call terrorist attacks.
True. No argument. But I don't think that the resistence would have been as successful as you're hoping.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, how the Germans would have acted, covertly, after that peace had been reached is questionable.
I don't think its very questionable, ese. The Nazis would have eventually launched their Blitzkreig on England. IF the British signed a non-aggression pact with Germany, they'd looking over their shoulder the whole time, like a boy-in-blue in a bad Mexican neighborhood.
We no doubt would have eventually entered with or without Pearl Harbor.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yet within living memory before 1914 we had been at war with France, and historically France has always been England's primary enemy.France and England were only together in WWI because of Belgium; they were not actually enamoured of helping each other. Ditto in WWII for Poland. All alliances were those of convenience, not for any other reason- just as Russia/Germany was.
As soon as it was no longer expedient to shackle up with France we didn't think twice about annhilating their fleet- not something you do to an ally.
This is the point- it is ALL about self-interest, and it is in that spirit that the question about making a deal with Germany at this point is asked, because it seems almost certain that it would have been much etter for the UK.
I addressed that. I said it wouldn't have been out of sentimentality. Rather out of fear of being next.
And if I thought there were many posters here who had been around before the war to see those movies, I would not have used the term 'lesser know'. As it is, I don't think a lot of people posting here are familiar with that fact. I've spent a long time studying WWII, so I say lesser known because I don't know how many here have as well.point taken, here in Norway it is common knowledge due to well History classes at school
No argument. But I don't think that the resistence would have been as successful as you're hopingwell the Nazi regim were unable to crush the resistance in the occupied countries, after all it was the resistance movement in these occupied countires that informed the allied about the situation. So it not the success I hope they achieve its what they might have done and achieved turning their eyes on the center of the regime instead of locally
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
.We no doubt would have eventually entered with or without Pearl Harbor.
Oh, no I don't think we would have entered the war if not for Pearl Harbour. Roosevelt allowed Pearl Harbour to occur because he knew that a huge majority of Americans were still feeling the effects of WWI, and had since that time become rabid isolationists. It's one of the reasons that Wilsons attempts to get the US to join the League of Nations were so unsuccessful. Even all those years later, few Americans could see the benefits of our participation in WWI.
The Nazis would have eventually launched their Blitzkreig on Englandthere is something called water that seperate UK from the European continent, so so much for blietz krieg
We never would have been next.maybe the rage of us Scandinavian seeing you sitting this one out would have led them to a new Viking raid the british isle tour 😉 😄
Originally posted by Ushgarak
We never would have been next.
I don't think you guys would have "never been next." Once you guys were the only ones left fighting, Germany would have had time to build up enough firepower and personnel to make an invasion, by air or sea, possible.
Despite Churchill saying you guys would fight to the last man.