Originally posted by PepitoBig key point being overlooked in this if Stan Lee himself said such a thing then well its true if he said Beyonder is like Marvel writers in term of power then he is and can do whatever he wants.
Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character
Originally posted by newjak86
Big key point being overlooked in this if Stan Lee himself said such a thing then well its true if he said Beyonder is like Marvel writers in term of power then he is and can do whatever he wants.
He said that at the time. Thats the key point, in his time he was arguably the most powerful character created by Marvel. However with the bigger and better trend for cosmic powers with the progression of time and the fact that all his claims were never supported on panel by actual feats you cant assume or conclusively support the opinion that he was more powerful than the likes of IG, HOTU and Phoenix in their appearances because they too have hyped up to similar levels by character comments but in addition to that they have actual on panel feats to back them up, Beyonder doesnt, regardless of whats suggested or claimed. All we have to go are on panel feats, thats all we have to back up our opinions, not character claims, hyperbole and boasts( which noone can disprove Beyonders claims to be). Forget unsupported character claims and general speculation, feats wise hes trumped by a number of powers.
Originally posted by GalacticStormYes I can as it says Classic Beyonder who Stan Lee said was able to do whatever he wanted. On Panel feats yeah sure I think I'll take the word of Stan Lee over any comics anyday.
He said that at the time. Thats the key point, in his time he was arguably the most powerful character created by Marvel. However with the bigger and better trend for cosmic powers with the progression of time and the fact that all his claims were never supported on panel by actual feats you cant assume or conclusively support the opinion that he was more powerful than the likes of IG, HOTU and Phoenix in their appearances because they too have hyped up to similar levels by character comments but in addition to that they have actual on panel feats to back them up, Beyonder doesnt, regardless of whats suggested or claimed. All we have to go are on panel feats, thats all we have to back up our opinions, not character claims, hyperbole and boasts( which noone can disprove Beyonders claims to be). Forget unsupported character claims and general speculation, feats wise hes trumped by a number of powers.
Originally posted by Pepito
Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way (he does not see the other characters as real people). He easily vanished away Living Tribunal and scared off the host. He could just ensure that none of the gauntlet opposers ever existed or encase them in their own personal universes. The point of Beyonder is that he is the ultimate god character
Wow, that's very interesting.
I see the sense in it, is that a fact though, "Stan Lee stated that Classic Beyonder represents the writers and artists of the comics in that he has total conrol over the universe and is beyond in every way",
that's dope.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The thing about the Beyonder though is that regardless of all the claims thrown around about him (mostly by himself) he has no on panel feats to back them up. Thats the crux of the matter. So while he may very well have been intended to be the ultimate power, there have been characters/powers introduced since then that have performed far better ON PANEL feats. Its the nature of comics to introduce bigger and better characters as time goes on so with no impressive demonstrations of power (in comparison to the likes of Phoenix, HOTU, IG etc) how are we to know how his power compares to them? You cant conclusively say he'll trump such powers when he has no on panel feats to verify such an opinion. Unsupported character claims just dont cut it and with the retcon in place we'll never know.
Please tell me what on panel demonstartions you want?
Mider and I have factual statements on panel verifying the Beyonder as having power greater than the multi-verse combined and even beyond that, on panel, Beyonder quoting himself and the narrator saying it also, now I believe the narrator is really the writer, and the writer has the same authority over characters as does the one who wrote about Phoenix holding the multi-verse in her hand.
What's the difference between the writer that wrote Beyonder is more powerful than several multi-verses combined and the writer who wrote Phoenix can contain the multi-verse from it falling apart I don't know.
The fact is that there is no difference, now if Beyonder alone would have made those claims I would side with you on the possibility it was just empty boasts or bravado, but since it was the writer himself who wrote on panel that Beyonder was more powerful than the multi-verse combined and beyond, I must except it as valid proof of the Beyonder's capacity.
Originally posted by Mider
i highly doudt that any other comic character has ever been stated ON PANEL to have power several hundred times that of the multiverse combined.
Absolutely none has, at most characters have been giving powers to affect a multi-verse, but more than that someone would have to show me proof on panel.
Originally posted by Mider
doesnt matter i dont think even TOAA has several hundred times the power of the multiverse combined if he did he wouldnt have died recreating it in thanos the end while thanos himself was TOAA.
You know where on the same page, I was just about to say something to that affect.
Only I don't think Thanos had the exact amount of power TOAA had, I think Thanos was just slightly bellow, due to the fact that he was able to offset everything Thanos did, even though it took his life.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He said that at the time. Thats the key point, in his time he was arguably the most powerful character created by Marvel. However with the bigger and better trend for cosmic powers with the progression of time and the fact that all his claims were never supported on panel by actual feats you cant assume or conclusively support the opinion that he was more powerful than the likes of IG, HOTU and Phoenix in their appearances because they too have hyped up to similar levels by character comments but in addition to that they have actual on panel feats to back them up, Beyonder doesnt, regardless of whats suggested or claimed. All we have to go are on panel feats, thats all we have to back up our opinions, not character claims, hyperbole and boasts( which noone can disprove Beyonders claims to be). Forget unsupported character claims and general speculation, feats wise hes trumped by a number of powers.
I'm starting to understand where your ignorance about the Beyonder stems from, you haven't seen or read all of the comics Beyonder appeared in during his pre-retcon stage have you?
I'm sure of it or else you would not say that.
Many make this mistake and consider Beyonder's limits to Secret Wars titles I-II-III but actually there where so many more, a plethora of feats, you kidding me, you gotta look into Beyonder to realize the magnitute of his power.
For every issue of Secret Wars II & III there are 3 - 5 other titles that follow up in it's continuation, this is where many great displays of his power took place. Titles from Hulk to FF - Dr Strange - Alpah Flight - Spiderman, I mean it goes on and on, he appeared and exhibited tramendous abilities in every other title out at the time.
So you gotta get your hands on these, research and be amazed.
note: at the end of each Secret Wars II & III title issue(last page)it tells you what issues to continue in,
eg. Secret War II #1 from there if you want to continue the series completely you would have get New Mutants #30 - Captain America #308 - X-Men #196 and Iron Man #197, Beyonder appears in all four of these titles and demonstrates so many feats that it's rediculous, and every other Secret Wars title is the same, continuing in several other issues.
I mean Marvel writers where given all the freedom with him, to exploit omnipotence in all it's forms, just remebered that funny scene(yes on panel)where he has every particle, bacteria, germ and being and inanimate object in the universe bowing down to him, they actually drew bacteria bowing down to him, lol. dope.
Originally posted by newjak86
Yes I can as it says Classic Beyonder who Stan Lee said was able to do whatever he wanted. On Panel feats yeah sure I think I'll take the word of Stan Lee over any comics anyday.
The key factor is when Stan Lee said that as i said in my previous post. Forgive me if im wrong but he said that before the arrival of all the powers with greater feats came along, which is the crux of the matter. The IG has been said to give control over all aspects of the comic book universe as well and since the IG bigger and better showings have occurred on panel in its time and thats my point. Theres a constant progression, characters get more powerful with time and anything the Beyonder has done has been trumped by the powers ive mentioned. Classic Beyonder may very well have been hot stuff in his day but since then powers have arrived who have performed better feats than him. Stan Lee saying back in the day Beyonder represented the writers giving him total control over the universe is cool,but similar things have been said about the powers ive mentioned and at least they have the feats to back up the hype.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Please tell me what on panel demonstartions you want?Mider and I have factual statements on panel verifying the Beyonder as having power greater than the multi-verse combined and even beyond that, on panel, Beyonder quoting himself and the narrator saying it also, now I believe the narrator is really the writer, and the writer has the same authority over characters as does the one who wrote about Phoenix holding the multi-verse in her hand.
What's the difference between the writer that wrote Beyonder is more powerful than several multi-verses combined and the writer who wrote Phoenix can contain the multi-verse from it falling apart I don't know.The fact is that there is no difference, now if Beyonder alone would have made those claims I would side with you on the possibility it was just empty boasts or bravado, but since it was the writer himself who wrote on panel that Beyonder was more powerful than the multi-verse combined and beyond, I must except it as valid proof of the Beyonder's capacity.
Demonstrations superior to those of the IG, HOTU and Phoenix. Dont trouble yourself because i know he doesnt have them.
Ok, thats cool, can you post a scan of the whole page where that is stated. That could settle the matter, if its stated exactly how you say it is. 😉
Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm starting to understand where your ignorance about the Beyonder stems from, you haven't seen or read all of the comics Beyonder appeared in during his pre-retcon stage have you?
I'm sure of it or else you would not say that.
Many make this mistake and consider Beyonder's limits to Secret Wars titles I-II-III but actually there where so many more, a plethora of feats, you kidding me, you gotta look into Beyonder to realize the magnitute of his power.For every issue of Secret Wars II & III there are 3 - 5 other titles that follow up in it's continuation, this is where many great displays of his power took place. Titles from Hulk to FF - Dr Strange - Alpah Flight - Spiderman, I mean it goes on and on, he appeared and exhibited tramendous abilities in every other title out at the time.
So you gotta get your hands on these, research and be amazed.
note: at the end of each Secret Wars II & III title issue(last page)it tells you what issues to continue in,
eg. Secret War II #1 from there if you want to continue the series completely you would have get New Mutants #30 - Captain America #308 - X-Men #196 and Iron Man #197, Beyonder appears in all four of these titles and demonstrates so many feats that it's rediculous, and every other Secret Wars title is the same, continuing in several other issues.
I mean Marvel writers where given all the freedom with him, to exploit omnipotence in all it's forms, just remebered that funny scene(yes on panel)where he has every particle, bacteria, germ and being and inanimate object in the universe bowing down to him, they actually drew bacteria bowing down to him, lol. dope.
You presume too much Mr M. 😉 I have all of Secret Wars titles and have most of Beyonder's Pre and Post retcon appearances, so dont you worry about me not being clued up. I just dont agree with what youre saying thats all. He just doesnt have the feats to back up his and your claims. Nothing hes done on panel, no output of power comes close to the top showings of the aforementioned powers.
If you can tell me what issue the narrator apparrently said the multiverse thing then i can obtain scans and refresh my memory. If its exactly as you've said then thats cool, if not then you have nothing conclusive to go on and Classic Beyonder simply cannot be classed beyond the likes of the IG because not only have similar claims been made about it in its day, but in addition its backed up those claims with high level feats. Beyonder never did.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You presume too much Mr M. 😉 I have all of Secret Wars titles and have most of Beyonder's Pre and Post retcon appearances, so dont you worry about me not being clued up. I just dont agree with what youre saying thats all. He just doesnt have the feats to back up his and your claims. Nothing hes done on panel, no output of power comes close to the top showings of the aforementioned powers.If you can tell me what issue the narrator apparrently said the multiverse thing then i can obtain scans and refresh my memory. If its exactly as you've said then thats cool, if not then you have nothing conclusive to go on and Classic Beyonder simply cannot be classed beyond the likes of the IG because not only have similar claims been made about it in its day, but in addition its backed up those claims with high level feats. Beyonder never did.
Ok let's get started,
Should of prepared myself for retaliation scans, lol.
Ok I'll start by negating the Infinity Gauntlet and work my way up.
The Infinity Gauntlet gives it's wielder complete control of the 616 universe, it's power is on a universal scale,(pretty impressive), one universe at a time at best, correct? Yes.
Now here's a scan from ironically Secret Wars II title #1, first page top column, here the narrator/writer tells us that our universe(616)was a droplet of water to an ocean in comparison with the universe the Beyonder was.
This is evidence that the IG was literally nothing to the Beyonder, unless your going to say that even though the IG can only affect a universe the size of a drop of water, it will somehow manage to affect a universe the size of an ocean in comparison.
But you seem smart from your posts so I believe you'l agree the Infinity Gauntlet was less than nothing to Beyonder, well not nothing about a drop of water.
Here's a better scan Galactic Storm.
Our universe is a drop of water to an ocean in comparison with the universe the Beyonder was.
http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secretwarsii001012gc.jpg
