Classic Beyonder runs the ultimate gauntlet

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok let's get started,

Should of prepared myself for retaliation scans, lol.
Ok I'll start by negating the Infinity Gauntlet and work my way up.
The Infinity Gauntlet gives it's wielder complete control of the 616 universe, it's power is on a universal scale,(pretty impressive), one universe at a time at best, correct? Yes.
Now here's a scan from ironically Secret Wars II title #1, first page top column, here the narrator/writer tells us that our universe(616)was a droplet of water to an ocean in comparison with the universe the Beyonder was.
This is evidence that the IG was literally nothing to the Beyonder, unless your going to say that even though the IG can only affect a universe the size of a drop of water, it will somehow manage to affect a universe the size of an ocean in comparison.
But you seem smart from your posts so I believe you'l agree the Infinity Gauntlet was less than nothing to Beyonder, well not nothing about a drop of water.

First off that scan was small as hell i gave myself a migraine trying to make out those words lol. Google "image shack", go to the site and then use it to post your images its a lot better.

Secondly thats nothing, thats far from conclusive. What is the narrator talking in terms of? For all we know it could be size, complexity a number of different things. It doesnt translate as Beyonder being beyond the power an IG wielder can employ.

On top of that the scan also makes it clear that Pre retcon Beyonder was a sentient universe NOT a multiverse. Thanks for clearing that up. 😉

Originally posted by Mr Master
Here's a better scan Galactic Storm.

Our universe is a drop of water to an ocean in comparison with the universe the Beyonder was.

http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=secretwarsii001012gc.jpg

U beat me to it!! 😛

Originally posted by Mr Master
One down.

You presume too much MM. Lets not get ahead of ourselves 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You presume too much Mr M. 😉 I have all of Secret Wars titles and have most of Beyonder's Pre and Post retcon appearances, so dont you worry about me not being clued up. I just dont agree with what youre saying thats all. He just doesnt have the feats to back up his and your claims. Nothing hes done on panel, no output of power comes close to the top showings of the aforementioned powers.

If you can tell me what issue the narrator apparrently said the multiverse thing then i can obtain scans and refresh my memory. If its exactly as you've said then thats cool, if not then you have nothing conclusive to go on and Classic Beyonder simply cannot be classed beyond the likes of the IG because not only have similar claims been made about it in its day, but in addition its backed up those claims with high level feats. Beyonder never did.

Before I continue I'd like to know what you consider more powerful HOTU or White Phoenix?
So I can negate them in order, also in the meantime I'll make a collection of scans that will blow your mind with pre-retconned Beyonder feats.
Like when he had every particle, germ, bacteria, being(immortal & mortal)cosmic and deity, inorganic matter and inanimate object in the universe bowing down to him,(on panel) they actually drew bacteria bowing down to him, lol.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Before I continue I'd like to know what you consider more powerful HOTU or White Phoenix?
So I can negate them in order, also in the meantime I'll make a collection of scans that will blow your mind with pre-retconned Beyonder feats.
Like when he had every particle, germ, bacteria, being(immortal & mortal)cosmic and deity, inorganic matter and inanimate object in the universe bowing down to him,(on panel) they actually drew bacteria bowing down to him, lol.

Phoenix has better feats and wasnt one of the powers defeated or shown to be affected by it. So imo the White Crown Phoenix is beyond HOTU merely for those reasons.

Seriously, ive read all of Secret Wars, i have Secret Wars i can post scans for you lol. I know he hasnt performed a feat beyond the IG and certainly not beyond Phoenix or HOTU. Having all life bow down to you in a universe while impressive is trumped by the aforementioned powers.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
First off that scan was small as hell i gave myself a migraine trying to make out those words lol. Google "image shack", go to the site and then use it to post your images its a lot better.

Secondly thats nothing, thats far from conclusive. What is the narrator talking in terms of? For all we know it could be size, complexity a number of different things. It doesnt translate as Beyonder being beyond the power an IG wielder can employ.

On top of that the scan also makes it claer that Pre retcon Beyonder was a sentient universe NOT a multiverse. Thanks for clearing that up. 😉

What?
Come on GS, don't border line fanboy now, you are a true debater, I respect the way you express yourself and reasonable arguments you produce, but now you've read it and saw it yourself and your searching for excuses.
Bottom line for the IG, it affects one universe at a time(616)to be exact, one universe that's a drop a water in comparison with Beyonder's.
Please don't try and go around this with philosophy and speculation, as a man of evident reason you must agree that the Infinity Gauntlet cannot affect a universe that's billions upon billions of time larger than 616. Hence the Beyonder must off possessed more energy than the IG could have ever dreamed of.

Like I said one down.

look at my other post.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix has better feats and wasnt one of the powers defeated or shown to be affected by it. So imo the White Crown Phoenix is beyond HOTU merely for those reasons.

Seriously, ive read all of Secret Wars, i have Secret Wars i can post scans for you lol. I know he hasnt performed a feat beyond the IG and certainly not beyond Phoenix or HOTU. Having all life bow down to you in a universe while impressive is trumped by the aforementioned powers.

Ok HOTU is next,

and by the way you say you've read and seen every pre-retcon Beyonder appearance, I suppose you have every continuation issue aswell, you know the 4 to 5 titles that every Secret Wars II -III title continue in, I gave you an example before.

did no one get my post i said that it was stated ON PANEL in secret wars 2 when beyonder died he released power several HUNDRED TIMES THAT OF THE COMBINED MULTIVERSE why is this debate going on still. If the brothers from DC vs Marvel were canon characters he would make them look like insects.

Originally posted by Mider
did no one get my post i said that it was stated ON PANEL in secret wars 2 when beyonder died he released power several HUNDRED TIMES THAT OF THE COMBINED MULTIVERSE why is this debate going on still. If the brothers from DC vs Marvel were canon characters he would make them look like insects.

Mider, my man please scan this for GS, I'm still managing my scans over here,
once GS sees that he will have no room for debate.
Cause I know neither the HOTU or Phoenix have the energy of several hundred multi-verses.

i dont have a scanner but i tell you the truth its in secret wars 2 when he dies his power was channeled back into his void universe the space he left when he left his universe and all his power was made into a brand new universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What?
Come on GS, don't border line fanboy now, you are a true debater, I respect the way you express yourself and reasonable arguments you produce, but now you've read it and saw it yourself and your searching for excuses.
Bottom line for the IG, it affects one universe at a time(616)to be exact, one universe that's a drop a water in comparison with Beyonder's.
Please don't try and go around this with philosophy and speculation, as a man of evident reason you must agree that the Infinity Gauntlet cannot affect a universe that's billions upon billions of time larger than 616. Hence the Beyonder must off possessed more energy than the IG could have ever dreamed of.

Like I said one down.

Now isnt that all speculation? 😕

True the IG has only been shown to affect one universe at a time but the same holds true for the Beyonder. Where has he applied his power simultaneously across multiple realities? I dont believe he has so thats a bit of a moot point.

The narrator makes no comments regarding comparative power held within the two universes and that is a fact. The only thing said is that 616 is a droplet compared to the ocean that is Beyonders universe. Are you not then speculating about what terms the writer is talking about when saying that?✅

Being bigger and/or more complex than 616 doesnt mean more power is held within it although that can be inferred. It is not a conclusive statement on the point we're debating on. Its a line open to interpretation and therefore nothing can be conclusively drawn from it and treated as fact in debate. Nothing to do with fanboyism and all to do with conclusive on panel evidence being the be all and end all in debates. Ambiguous statements from which multiple interpretations can be drawn from are not good enough. By what right can anyone say their interpretation is more true than anyone elses? Sorry MM 🙁

Originally posted by Mr Master
Mider, my man please scan this for GS, I'm still managing my scans over here,
once GS sees that he will have no room for debate.
Cause I know neither the HOTU or Phoenix have the energy of several hundred multi-verses.

And yet Beyonder does being merely a sentient universe? 😕

Tell me the issue i'll scans up in 10 mins

last issue of secret wars 2 after he died.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Now isnt that all speculation? 😕

True the IG has only been shown to affect one universe at a time but the same holds true for the Beyonder. Where has he applied his power simultaneously across multiple realities? I dont believe he has so thats a bit of a moot point.

The narrator makes no comments regarding comparative power held within the two universes and that is a fact. The only thing said is that 616 is a droplet compared to the ocean that is Beyonders universe. Are you not then speculating about what terms the writer is talking about when saying that?✅

Being bigger and/or more complex than 616 doesnt mean more power is held within it although that can be inferred. It is not a conclusive statement on the point we're debating on. Its a line open to interpretation and therefore nothing can be conclusively drawn from it and treated as fact in debate. Nothing to do with fanboyism and all to do with conclusive on panel evidence being the be all and end all in debates. Ambiguous statements from which multiple interpretations can be drawn from are not good enough. By what right can anyone say their interpretation is more true than anyone elses? Sorry MM 🙁

When I said the IG can only affect one universe at a time, I was clearifying it's scope of power, Beyonder's universe(I never said he was a multi-verse, just that his universe, which he was), contained the accumalated energy of several hundred multi-verses combined).
And as far as controlling multiple realities at once, that's an easy one, he did so when he had total control over our universe and his.
But we must remember there wasn't much out there back then, even if he had total dominion over the muti-verse, marvel writers saw it as meaninless to represent that since nothing to interesting was happening across the multi-verse, pocket dimensions had more significance than the mutti-verse back then, nowadays you have characters across all the myriad borders of time and space, which leads to a more interesting story involving these multi-versal areas of space.
And I don't know how you see speculation deriving from what the writer said,
A Praying Mantis can kill any cockroach on earth, a lethal killer in the insect world with a length of about 5 -7 inches and tramendous strength in comparrison with it's size, would I be assuming that a Praying Mantis cannot even be noticed let alone kill a Blue Whale?
No, it's common sense.
Now if the 616universe to Beyonder's universe was like a Lion a Cape Buffalo, I would say it's possible considering a Lions state of hunger to make a desperate attempt at attacking a Cape Buffalo and actually killing it.
But I'm sorry when I consider the size diffference between 616 and Beyonder's universe, one must logically yes assume, that it contained more energy to an unimaginable degree.

Your not easy, and this is just the IG, I'm gonna have hell in trying to out do HOTU and Phoenix. lol.

Originally posted by Mider
last issue of secret wars 2 after he died.

Thank you Mider.

Originally posted by Mider
last issue of secret wars 2 after he died.

Wow it seems the GS dude was shut down, after you let him know where to find the answer he never knew, he disapeared, silento, bafflement of the senses, lol
It's good to be right.

long live pre-retcon Beyonder - the most powerful being ever to exist period, on any plane of reality across time and space the multi-verse it'self and beyond.

This questiuon has been pondered upon for a long time and now we know the truth.

he shouldnt have had such a lame ending or life or recon

Originally posted by Mider
he shouldnt have had such a lame ending or life or recon

I absolutely agree, I loved the whole concept behind the Beyonder's existence, to have "God's" power, but without multi-versal awareness, it's great and it's the only all powerful character that can relate to the average joe, this is why it was such a fantastic story, other all powerful beings become boring quickly, but there are some who's purpose is fascinatingly interesting, Classic Beyonder was one of them.

Still, atleast his legacy will remain for all time as the most powerful being ever to be created, as we have proven.
Everyone says we have never seen TOAA r the Presence, who cares when we saw someone possibly many times more powerful.

Well Mider you have come on greatly as a debater! YOu provided evidence as well I salute you!