Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
The thing is Strange does find himself in random fights with magical beings on Thor's level all the time. Sometimes he's at dinner, sometimes he at Bleeker Street.
I don't know why people insist that Strange is weakened because he doesn't have prep time.
Originally posted by Nick1989
Lol. Sir Whirlysplat im afraid to say Doctor Strange is far a greater magic user than Loki will ever be.
I have most of the Docs appearances from a reprint in 70's pocket book form of Strange tales 110 to JMS Strange mini and I would have to disagree, some of the feats of the Gods he channels are higher, Stranges personal feats are not.
Here is a list of Thor's abilities posted in the Thor Respect Thread. It shows a great analysis of his abilities along with issue # to back each one up:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=369118&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=4
The Enchantress and Executioner has MASSACRED Thor on at least....3 occasions.
They never beat Strange, but they did well against him because Strange ALLOWED (CIS) himself to be kissed by Enchantress, which sapped his power(PIS) making him weak. He allowed her to do so because he knew they were up to something....he even said "It's better to have evil under foot than over head", just as the Ancient One said about mordo. That fight is totally moot.
Oh, and Strange is what Loki dreams of being when he grows up.
On to this fight.
Thor can indeed absorb magic energy, but never once has he been capable of absorbing spells. Dr.Strange hardly ever blasts simple magic energy in a fight unless he fights other heroes(otherwise he'd destroy everyone with too much ease).
Bloodlusted Strange won't do that, nor would he hold back and only use white magic.
Thor is also VERY susceptible to magical telepathy, which Strange has in spades, he's above Xavier with his Eye.
Strange has a spell which can steal Mjolnir away turning Thor into a simple strong man....who can be banished.
Nearly everytime Thor and Strange team up, Thor is in the position of student and Strange is the teacher, it's obvious Thor isn't as learned in the use of magic as Strange. Strange went as far as saying "I'll handle the hocus pocus, you just go hit things with your hammer."
Strange's shields can handle ANY attack Thor uses on him, Strange has taken full on world destroying blasts and blasts from Galactus with little effort. Thor, on the other hand CAN'T handle what Strange brings to the table.
This fight could be over in a 6 word black magic spell:
"Satan, take him, he is yours!" and bam....Thor's soul is in hell and Strange takes a nap. Simple as.
Or Thor is wrapped in a cyttorak bubble and dies. Or Thor is attacked mentally. Or Thor is turned into a table....seriously, Strange can do it. He has no rules to what he can do, Joe Quesada said so himself:
"Strange has no rules to his universe, he can do anything....there is no real threat to him because he can simply caste a spell and it's all over. How can you kill someone like that? How can you kill Strange?"
This fight wouldn't be a curbstomp, but Thor loses 8/10. With a half second prep, this would be a massive curbstomp.
Originally posted by long pig
The Enchantress and Executioner has MASSACRED Thor on at least....3 occasions.They never beat Strange, but they did well against him because Strange ALLOWED (CIS) himself to be kissed by Enchantress, which sapped his power(PIS) making him weak. He allowed her to do so because he knew they were up to something....he even said "It's better to have evil under foot than over head", just as the Ancient One said about mordo. That fight is totally moot.
Oh, and Strange is what Loki dreams of being when he grows up.
On to this fight.
Thor can indeed absorb magic energy, but never once has he been capable of absorbing spells. Dr.Strange hardly ever blasts simple magic energy in a fight unless he fights other heroes(otherwise he'd destroy everyone with too much ease).
Bloodlusted Strange won't do that, nor would he hold back and only use white magic.
Thor is also VERY susceptible to magical telepathy, which Strange has in spades, he's above Xavier with his Eye.
Strange has a spell which can steal Mjolnir away turning Thor into a simple strong man....who can be banished.
Nearly everytime Thor and Strange team up, Thor is in the position of student and Strange is the teacher, it's obvious Thor isn't as learned in the use of magic as Strange. Strange went as far as saying "I'll handle the hocus pocus, you just go hit things with your hammer."
Strange's shields can handle ANY attack Thor uses on him, Strange has taken full on world destroying blasts and blasts from Galactus with little effort. Thor, on the other hand CAN'T handle what Strange brings to the table.
This fight could be over in a 6 word black magic spell:
"Satan, take him, he is yours!" and bam....Thor's soul is in hell and Strange takes a nap. Simple as.
Or Thor is wrapped in a cyttorak bubble and dies. Or Thor is attacked mentally. Or Thor is turned into a table....seriously, Strange can do it. He has no rules to what he can do, Joe Quesada said so himself:
"Strange has no rules to his universe, he can do anything....there is no real threat to him because he can simply caste a spell and it's all over. How can you kill someone like that? How can you kill Strange?"
This fight wouldn't be a curbstomp, but Thor loses 8/10. With a half second prep, this would be a massive curbstomp.
So tell me LP, whats your take on Leonhearts opinion that Strange is the 3rd most powerful being in Marvel? 😉
Originally posted by leonheartmm
CORRECTION, SECOND most powerful NON abstract being{leaving thanos w THOTU and the living tribunal, n pre retconned beyonder}
But he isnt by his own admission mate. Hes stated on numerous occassions in the past and more recently that hes below the likes of Silver Surfer and Thanos in terms of raw power. Strange has greater potential power than those two but not as standard. A lot of the higher level feats you listed previously were down to him employing artifacts. Youre also making the assumption that when someone resists a persons power they must automatically be on their level. ❌
Originally posted by long pig
The Enchantress and Executioner has MASSACRED Thor on at least....3 occasions.They never beat Strange, but they did well against him because Strange ALLOWED (CIS) himself to be kissed by Enchantress, which sapped his power(PIS) making him weak. He allowed her to do so because he knew they were up to something....he even said "It's better to have evil under foot than over head", just as the Ancient One said about mordo. That fight is totally moot.
Oh, and Strange is what Loki dreams of being when he grows up.
On to this fight.
Thor can indeed absorb magic energy, but never once has he been capable of absorbing spells. Dr.Strange hardly ever blasts simple magic energy in a fight unless he fights other heroes(otherwise he'd destroy everyone with too much ease).
Bloodlusted Strange won't do that, nor would he hold back and only use white magic.
Thor is also VERY susceptible to magical telepathy, which Strange has in spades, he's above Xavier with his Eye.
Strange has a spell which can steal Mjolnir away turning Thor into a simple strong man....who can be banished.
Nearly everytime Thor and Strange team up, Thor is in the position of student and Strange is the teacher, it's obvious Thor isn't as learned in the use of magic as Strange. Strange went as far as saying "I'll handle the hocus pocus, you just go hit things with your hammer."
Strange's shields can handle ANY attack Thor uses on him, Strange has taken full on world destroying blasts and blasts from Galactus with little effort. Thor, on the other hand CAN'T handle what Strange brings to the table.
This fight could be over in a 6 word black magic spell:
"Satan, take him, he is yours!" and bam....Thor's soul is in hell and Strange takes a nap. Simple as.
Or Thor is wrapped in a cyttorak bubble and dies. Or Thor is attacked mentally. Or Thor is turned into a table....seriously, Strange can do it. He has no rules to what he can do, Joe Quesada said so himself:
"Strange has no rules to his universe, he can do anything....there is no real threat to him because he can simply caste a spell and it's all over. How can you kill someone like that? How can you kill Strange?"
This fight wouldn't be a curbstomp, but Thor loses 8/10. With a half second prep, this would be a massive curbstomp.
well it's about damn time you showed up . . . 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But he isnt by his own admission mate. Hes stated on numerous occassions in the past and more recently that hes below the likes of Silver Surfer and Thanos in terms of raw power. Strange has greater potential power than those two but not as standard. A lot of the higher level feats you listed previously were down to him employing artifacts. Youre also making the assumption that when someone resists a persons power they must automatically be on their level. ❌
1st off, strange has NO powers of his own but employes OUTSIDE mystical sources, this is a fact biologically strange is only human, he is only DR STRANGE BECAUSE HE EMPLOYES MAGIC AND OUTSIDE SOURCES of mytical strength which include his artifacts. its kinda like GL{only much MUCH more powerful} he/she/it is human n gets their power from rings which they EMPLOY with their will and skill, thats basically what dr strange does, n thas why he ALWAYS has some if not all his artifacts with him{although mystically hidden to stop from being nuisances}
i NEVER said that resisting sum1 or sumthin makes u on par with it, ull NEVER hear me say that strange is as powerful as the tribunal{as ive already stated the tribunal is more powerful than him. BUT we have seen that the tribunal has power over all abstracts in the multiverse and also had enough to power to nullify the IG with a single fingersnap{when the IG EASILY slayed alll the abstracts like insects} now THAT PROVES that the IG cud NOT resist the tribunal as it was taken out my a mere fingersnap, STRANGE RESISTED the power of the LT twice, and actually gained the RESPECT of LT who is above all abstracts and is multiversal, now that atleast proves that he has shown more power than an IG{which he has ALSO resisted} even if he isnt as powerful as the tribunal he is sumwhere between him n the IG, n since i can think of no other being BETWEEN these two power levels{wanda with chaos wave, thanos w THOTU and pr retconeed beyonder are ABOVE thee power levels and are therefore not being stated} other than franklin richards, n franklin even though showing greater power than multiple universe has NOT positively shown INFINITELY MORE POWER{multiversal resistence etc} i can safely say that current dr strange is just below LT in terms of power n QUITE a level above galactus/celestials, normal abstracts, skyfathers etc. n the IG. its completely LOGICAL, n since strange has gotten this powerful uniformly n has the feats to back up greater power than abstracts and equal or greater power than the IG, it is NOT PIS.
theres ur answer, now stop ur vain efforts to try n mar my name, MATE!
You've done it now son. I believe a spanking is in order.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
1st off, strange has NO powers of his own but employes OUTSIDE mystical sources, this is a fact biologically strange is only human, he is only DR STRANGE BECAUSE HE EMPLOYES MAGIC AND OUTSIDE SOURCES of mytical strength which include his artifacts. its kinda like GL{only much MUCH more powerful} he/she/it is human n gets their power from rings which they EMPLOY with their will and skill, thats basically what dr strange does, n thas why he ALWAYS has some if not all his artifacts with him{although mystically hidden to stop from being nuisances}
Strange through his training can tap into ambient mystical forces, invoke mystical entities and draw on his own psychic resources. Through training Strange has given himself access to great power. While genetically human its no different to a character like Binary and a variety of energy wielders who dont generate their own energies internally but taps into an outside source. (Binary for example taps into a white hole.) The only difference is Strange got to that point through mystical training. Strange employing artifacts and tomes is something completely different. If they employed cosmic tapping artifacts would the feats achieved with them be considered their own? By your logic Thanos' (who employs the use of technology all the time) feats with the IG can be considered his own because he uses external aids all the time. 🙄
Strange by his own admission (therefore making this non debatable) has stated that hes below the likes of Thanos and Silver Surfer in power. Simple as. With prep and the deployment of his artifacts he can defeat virtually any force this side of the Vishanti. Please dont over-estimate him.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
i NEVER said that resisting sum1 or sumthin makes u on par with it, ull NEVER hear me say that strange is as powerful as the tribunal{as ive already stated the tribunal is more powerful than him. BUT we have seen that the tribunal has power over all abstracts in the multiverse and also had enough to power to nullify the IG with a single fingersnap{when the IG EASILY slayed alll the abstracts like insects} now THAT PROVES that the IG cud NOT resist the tribunal as it was taken out my a mere fingersnap,
LT cancelled out the power blast directed at him by Adam. Considering the close proximity of Adam from the abstracts and LT and what the IG has been shown to be able to do in the past it clearly wasnt a full power blast, so LT cancelling its effects out is a bit of a moot point, especially when you consider that in the same issue Eternity stated that in his totality he would be able to do the same. LT later went on to agree with Adam that he didnt know how his power would fare against the might of the IG so he pleaded with Adam to submit to his ruling (about the seperation of the gems) for fear of the destruction a battle would cause. It wasnt until Adam submitted that LTs ruling took effect. Lts agreement means that noone can say LT is beyond the IG as if he doesnt know himself as shown on panel who are we as comic fans to make his mind up for him? You certainly cant present that opinion as fact in a debate.
Heres a link to the thread where the IG versus LT issue was debated in full.
With LTs comments his supporters had no choice but to concede. I will hear nothing different from you 🙂
Originally posted by leonheartmm
STRANGE RESISTED the power of the LT twice, and actually gained the RESPECT of LT who is above all abstracts and is multiversal, now that atleast proves that he has shown more power than an IG{which he has ALSO resisted} even if he isnt as powerful as the tribunal he is sumwhere between him n the IG
Resisting someones power doesnt mean you are anywhere near the level of that person. Strange was defeated and admitted to LT being nothing to LT. With LTs standing against the IG conclusively in doubt as stated on panel your comments im afraid are void. Strange resisted the power of the IG with the aid of powerful artifacts, by his own admission he is not as powerful as SS or Thanos case closed.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
n since i can think of no other being BETWEEN these two power levels{wanda with chaos wave, thanos w THOTU and pr retconeed beyonder are ABOVE thee power levels and are therefore not being stated} other than franklin richards, n franklin even though showing greater power than multiple universe has NOT positively shown INFINITELY MORE POWER{multiversal resistence etc} i can safely say that current dr strange is just below LT in terms of power n QUITE a level above galactus/celestials, normal abstracts, skyfathers etc. n the IG. its completely LOGICAL, n since strange has gotten this powerful uniformly n has the feats to back up greater power than abstracts and equal or greater power than the IG, it is NOT PIS.
Theres nothing on panel which states the chaos wave was generated by Wanda(making the notion just OPINION) as opposed to being the result of her actions, therefore your placing of her is unsupported opinion, useless in debate in other words.
Even if we were to take the opinion that the chaos wave was Wandas power, she never performed a multiversal feat. Her manipulations accidentally ripped a hole in reality as stated, allowing the energies to leak through into Otherworld. That is power seepage thats something very different and still strictly universal. To be multiversal she would have had to have consciously applied her reality warping power simultaneously across multiple realities. Thats not what happened, her amateur tamperings caused a rift in reality and the energies she had generated in 616 seeped through. Wanda is strictly universal im afraid. Even Demi had to accept that in the end. Know your stuff. 😉
As for the Franklin Richards stuff, according to his bio hes never created multiple universe as per your claims. Pocket universes? ✅ Universes? ❌
If you'd like to point out where you got that idea from i'll gladly post scans within minutes. Its your call mate. Until then lets have silence on the matter.
I like how theres no mention of Phoenix in your hierarchy whatsoever. Still feeling bitter my friend? Multiple spankings do tend to have that effect. 🙁
Originally posted by leonheartmm
theres ur answer, now stop ur vain efforts to try n mar my name, MATE!
Come on son, you seriously couldnt have thought you'd stand a chance against one of my calibre? 😕
Youre dealing with JLA/KMC b*tch!!!! Know your place 😂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If that is addressed at me then it is misplaced as i was referring to a part of Leons post which very much had something to do with Phoenix or at least should have done. Irrelevant post.
Its not misplaced, to be honest anything exempting Phoenixs power according to, in reference to Leons hierarchy is pretty offensive isn't it, even though its a matter of opinion, whether he includes phoenix or not doesn't really matter.
Though what you wrote about strange I would agree on.
Originally posted by Maestro
Its not misplaced, to be honest anything exempting Phoenixs power according to, in reference to Leons hierarchy is pretty offensive isn't it, even though its a matter of opinion, whether he includes phoenix or not doesn't really matter.
Though what you wrote about strange I would agree on.
He presented a hierarchy of the top beings in Marvel and he intentionally left out Phoenix, a character who is very much related to the topic of marvels cosmology. The topic he and I admittedly went on a tangent on, but our business nonetheless. I commented on this and you butted in and and chose to ignore the fact that Leon referred to a number of characters unrelated to the topic and singled out my reference of Phoenix for your own reasons. 🙄
If you were being both neutral and objective you wouldve mentioned said characters in addition to Phoenix, whilst saying none of them have anything to do with the thread. ❌
With that aside im glad you can see past Leons ramblings. 🙂