Waverider Vs Silver Surfer

(Dammit, too late to edit.)

TBH, not sure about my SBP example, tho, as I'm not that familiar with all his appearances so I'm not sure if he's had time-punching "showings" but you get my drift.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Why wouldn't he? The argument here is that a "time freeze" is a "win due to incapacitation" even though he hasn't even touched the Surfer. But when compared to how Flash would be vs the Juggernaut, there seems to be a difference due to duration or the fact that eventually Juggernaut would be able to interact within Flash's perception because he is not "completely" frozen. Not really the type or reasoning I find palatable.

What other tactics are there?

I mean, from the reasoning here, it looks like 10000000000000000x Guardian amped Superboy Primes would automatically lose to WR or Odin due to "time stop incapacitation". Am I hearing this right?

Time and energy manipulation. If Surfer has fought beings in WR's class that can manipulate time, please show. If not, I'm just not seeing it.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Time and energy manipulation. If Surfer has fought beings in WR's class that can manipulate time, please show. If not, I'm just not seeing it.

How exactly does saying "time manipulation" make it a win for WR outside of the arguable time freeze?

And energy manipulation vs the Surfer? Care to show "feats" that put him anywhere near Surfer's top "feats"?

Nothing Surfer can do to a time freeze. Once he has Surfer in it, he can manipulate his energies and Surfer. JMO.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Heck, in order for your time stop "incapacitation" method to be viable, it has to hold Surfer indefinitely.

From this scan, it seems that time stopping requires some effort for WR to maintain (with some timelines being more "insistent" than others).

Now, I know this happened in limbo (where time could have different rules) but it does seem to allude that he needs to maintain a time stop consciously in order to maintain it. Has he ever maintained a time stop indefinitely?

Waverider was only 'struggling' to freeze time in that panel, because he was freezing ALL time throughout the ENTIRE limbo zone(a place where time was already unstable to begin with):
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/galan398/powers44_zpsf32ba192.jpg
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/galan398/powers45_zps344a44f8.jpg
He froze an entire limbo dimension in time. Very few characters(if any) below Skyfather-level have temporal manipulation feats on that level.

So yeah... Freezing Surfer in time should absolutely work.

SS goes into hyperspace to get out of time stop.

Then he has sex with Galan's mouth.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Nothing Surfer can do to a time freeze. Once he has Surfer in it, he can manipulate his energies and Surfer. JMO.

When has WR ever done this in a fight? We don't argue powersets here.

I mean if Surfer's frozen in time, how is his energy even going to be manipulated? It's not that he's simply paralyzed, his body (and thus energy is literally frozen in time as well). Is WR going to somehow "exclude" Surfer's energies and then manipulate it?

Edit. And yeah, it's arguable whether or not Surfer can do nothing to a time stop.

Originally posted by Mindset
SS goes into hyperspace to get out of time stop.

Then he has sex with Galan's mouth.

Concession accepted.

But I do.

Prepare yourself, queer.

You can't change the rules after they've already been established, you queer.

Originally posted by Galan007
Why did you crop that panel and remove it from its proper context?

Waverider was only 'struggling' to freeze time in that panel, because he was freezing ALL time throughout the ENTIRE limbo zone(a place where time was already unstable to begin with):
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/galan398/powers44_zpsf32ba192.jpg
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/galan398/powers45_zps344a44f8.jpg
He froze an entire limbo dimension in time. Very few characters(if any) below Skyfather-level have temporal manipulation feats on that level.

So yeah... Freezing Surfer in time should absolutely work.

Again, extent is the only difference here. It alludes to some conscious effort at maintaining a time stop. The larger the area and the more "insistent" the time in that area, the larger the effort. A contained "freeze"(I mean how does that even work? Wouldn't freezing a small contained area while allowing the rest of the universe move kinda rip that area out of the proper time flow?) might not take a lot of effort at all, but he can't maintain it forever. Unless you have on panel "showings" of WR holding a time freeze indefinitely, my point stands.

Also, posted something prior to that, would like a reply to that, too, please. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007

You can't change the rules after they've already been established, you queer.

Originally posted by Galan007
Why did you crop that panel and remove it from its proper context?

Waverider was only 'struggling' to freeze time in that panel, because he was freezing ALL time throughout the ENTIRE limbo zone(a place where time was already unstable to begin with):
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/galan398/powers44_zpsf32ba192.jpg
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/galan398/powers45_zps344a44f8.jpg
He froze an entire limbo dimension in time. Very few characters(if any) below Skyfather-level have temporal manipulation feats on that level.

So yeah... Freezing Surfer in time should absolutely work.

Uber feat. Was that Surtur they were fighting?

Basically, via the logic you're presenting, WR would be able to solo an UNLIMITED number of ANY Trans character with no known Time-manipulation resistance "feats" (a rare enough ability to find anywhere). Unlimited Thanos', unlimited SBP's, unlimited DP Tyrants as Surfer has better time-manipulation/perception "feats" than any of them

Am i hearing this right?

Originally posted by Galan007
Surfer has no dick.

Concession accepted.

Leave your wiener out of this. 😄

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Again, extent is the only difference here. It alludes to some conscious effort at maintaining a time stop. The larger the area and the more "insistent" the time in that area, the larger the effort. A contained "freeze"(I mean how does that even work? Wouldn't freezing a small contained area while allowing the rest of the universe move kinda rip that area out of the proper time flow?) might not take a lot of effort at all, but he can't maintain it forever. Unless you have on panel "showings" of WR holding a time freeze indefinitely, my point stands.

Also, posted something prior to that, would like a reply to that, too, please. 🙂

Not trying to be a dick, but your rationale/logic here sucks, tbh. It literally makes no sense at all. I also find it... Bothersome that you cropped a single panel from a page and attempted to ignore/pass-off the context behind the entire scene(you didn't think I'd catch that, but I did.) Hopefully it wasn't intentional, because if so, that's abhi-level stuff right there. 👇

Originally posted by Mindset
My loins are not bound by man's rules, ya homo.

Reported. 👇

Originally posted by Galan007
Eww. Loins?

Reported. 👇

I raping you twice as long for that

Originally posted by Galan007
Freezing time around a single individual=/=freezing time across an entire limbo dimension. The latter is unquestionably more difficult/impressive than the former(by a vast margin.) Just because I struggle to press 400lbs, certainly doesn't mean I'll struggle to press 50lbs.

You're not getting my point.

Try lifting that 50 lbs. Hold it up for 1 minute. Then hold it for 10 mins. Now hold it for an hour. Just because something is easy to do, doesn't mean you can do it indefinitely. The only difference is how long due to the "extent" of the difficulty.

Which is my point when I said:

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Again, extent is the only difference here.The larger the area and the more "insistent" the time in that area, the larger the effort. A contained "freeze"(I mean how does that even work? Wouldn't freezing a small contained area while allowing the rest of the universe move kinda rip that area out of the proper time flow?) might not take a lot of effort at all, but he can't maintain it forever.

Hope that clears that up.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not trying to be a dick, but your rationale/logic here sucks, tbh. It literally makes no sense at all.

I also don't understand why you don't seem to get where my logic is coming from. I understand where you're coming from, but you seem to be in complete refusal to accept anything I say, almost to the point of simply glossing thru what I post and picking the parts you don't agree with and ignoring the contexts in which I provided to explain my logic.

Case in point:

Originally posted by Galan007
I also find it... Bothersome that you cropped a single panel from a page and attempted to ignore/pass-off the context behind the entire scene(you didn't think I'd catch that, but I did.) Hopefully it wasn't intentional, because if so, that's abhi-level stuff right there. 👇

Seriously?

You're getting:

"Trying to hide the context of the scene and hoping you don't catch it" (I find that laughable since it's pretty obvious that you know more about WR's "feats" that I do, I find it insulting that you think I'd be stupid enough to pull something like that).

And not:

"He cropped it to not clutter his post and to emphasize the panel of the page that proves his point."

This seems to indicate that you've already made up your mind about what my intentions are in posting in this thread.

Especially when I said this:

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Now, I know this happened in limbo (where time could have different rules) but it does seem to allude that he needs to maintain a time stop consciously in order to maintain it. Has he ever maintained a time stop indefinitely?

As the term "entire limbo dimension" wasn't specifically mentioned in the pages of the scans I found you'd forgive me for not mentioning it.